God's Perfection Displayed In Child Birth

[Looking4Answers]

First, some Bible verses:

 

Did not he that made me in the womb make him? and did not one fashion us in the womb? - Job 31:15

 

The obvious belief is that the god of the Bible makes and fashions children in the womb.

 

For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother’s womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. - Psalm 139:13-14

 

Here we see the Psalmist, David, announcing that he was, from the womb, fearfully and wonderfully made. Again, this shows forth the belief that god is more than involved somehow in the conception of a baby, but that he is active in its formation. David goes on to say the following in the same Psalm:

 

Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. - Psalm 139:16

 

David admits that his body itself, the way it turned out, was due to the creative work of god.

 

So we see from these verses (and there are plenty of others) that the Bible teaches that the Bible god is the one that is behind the outcome of a child. In fact, in a more generic phrase, we read the following:

 

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. - John 1:1-3 AV

 

This passage, which relates to Jesus, shows us that anything that has been made were indeed made by god. Since the Bible declares that babies are made and since the Bible also declares that made things are made by god, then it is obvious, once again, that babies are indeed the product of god's hand.

 

Keeping these principles in mind, let's compare this teaching with the reality of a news report that was released just today:

 

A 6-year-old girl dubbed the ‘jigsaw kid’ due to her disheveled organs has amazed doctors by defying the odds — doctors did not expect her to survive birth.

 

Bethany Jordan of Stourbridge, West Mids, England, was born with her stomach on the wrong side, five spleens, a hole in her heart, a diseased, back-to-front liver and two left lungs.

 

She suffers from Ivemark syndrome, an extremely rare genetic disorder, characterized by a poorly-formed cardiovascular system and organs in the wrong place.

 

“Doctors said her insides were like a jigsaw,” said Bethany’s mom. “If she does any exercise you can see her heart beating through her back.”

 

Despite her medical problems, Bethany’s doctor says she is doing “very well.”

 

Link: Jigsaw Girl

 

While this girl is one of the lucky ones (photos of her from the Sun show her to be happy and relatively healthy), one has to ask themselves the question, "What was god up to?" Why would god make a girl with her heart toward her back, five spleens, two left lungs, etc.? And what about all of these children that weren't so lucky? What about those born as Siamese twins? Or the girl that has one body, but two heads with two brains, both being individuals with their own like and dislikes (differing one from the other), but doomed to be together on one body for the rest of their days:

 

 

 

Is this perfection from a perfect god? Was not he to blame according to his own book? And, again, we have not even touched on the horrible ones yet. Some children, due to birth defects, etc, suffer in agonizing pain for all their days. Why would a loving, perfect and merciful god create such a thing and allow something that he supposedly loves to suffer thus?

 

If any Christians even bother to respond to this thread, I am sure I will get all kinds of drivel. But I would ask you to think for a moment. What couple, upon discovering they are pregnant, does not have at least some thought about what if the child is retarded, has spina bifida or some other disease?

 

Oh, and I dare you to blame it on the human race ... on our supposed sin! Especially when the Bible itself squarely places the blame for how a child is created right on god's own shoulders.

[Mutate]

My "Christian mind" says that god wants to give people challenges, their own paths..including disablity/ilness..

 

My "ex christian" mind says nature makes us and nature is blind /makes mistakes.

 

oo i forgot the capital G for God,,,remember god has to be Capitaled, bold, and big letters..satan has no capital.

[Ouroboros]

You want nightmares? Look up images for the genetic birthdefects: holoprosencephaly or harlequin.

 

[hereticzero]

I think another term used is 'fetal monster?'

 

Nothing like having god stomp around on one's DNA!

 

The only people that brag about how god is good to them are really stuck on themselves!

[Weetie]

It's all because of Original Sin!

Adam & Eve ate an apple 6000 years ago, therfore God has to make all these deformed kids. The logic is flawless!

[EastCoastGal]

Knowing there is no God hanging out in my womb playing dress-up Barbie with my fetuses makes birth defects easier for me to handle.

It's random, it's nature, it's imperfect, it rolls on.

It prevents one from wasting time wringing their hands begging the sky-fairy to forgive them for what ever wrong they have committed.

 

BTW, that one pic.. YIKES

[oddbird1963]

Of course David went on and on about his body and being born.

 

He was a hero and a king! he certainly felt blessed, like god was in control and on his side!

 

Assuming of course the Psalmist was trying to see things through David's point of view.

[OpheliaGinger]

I would argue that if God is going to sadistic by making one to be deformed, then he is no good God at all.

[Autonomous]

Yep or people like my sister who has neurofibromatosis type 2 causing brain and spinal cord tumours leading to numerous neurosurgeries, deafness, poor eyesight, facial paralysis, loss of balance, weakness and pain in legs etc etc.

 

Fearfully and wonderfully made hmmm. Well she is a fabulous person, but the other stuff...

 

She's also a committed Christian.

[Shyone]

Yep or people like my sister who has neurofibromatosis type 2 causing brain and spinal cord tumours leading to numerous neurosurgeries, deafness, poor eyesight, facial paralysis, loss of balance, weakness and pain in legs etc etc.

 

Fearfully and wonderfully made hmmm. Well she is a fabulous person, but the other stuff...

 

She's also a committed Christian.

Some people definitely get a bad draw in life. For some, Christianity (or whatever their religion is) helps to "explain" that, and gives them a noble role to play.

 

To an extent, we all do that. We glorify those who have to suffer and we praise them for their strength and determination in the face of catastrophic injury or illness. Their lives are tough, and I would rather see them get some appreciation for their difficulties than pity.

 

I can't think that it has any relation to god however. It's just nature, and with that understanding, we will keep looking for ways to keep mother nature from ruining lives prematurely.

 

Mother, btw, is just a convention, not a description of yet another god. But it's so easy....

[MathGeek]

The logic of the Bible is so fucking skewed when it comes to miscarriages. The event was fucking horrible to say the least. I had to carry a fetus (born in the bedroom of my apartment) in a plastic bowl to the hospital, and from outward appearances he looked like a human being on a path of regular development. There were no visible birth defects like the ones mentioned above. If the God of the Bible truly wanted that child to be conceived, why the fuck did my spouse's water break well into the second trimester? To me, if a child was meant to be conceived then the child should have been brought to full-term to live life like every other child that's been born before and after. To this day, my wife and I still cannot conceive a child. Seems unfair to me I guess.

 

That event is likely the central reason of why I am not Christian. If the god of the Bible can allow miscarriages and allow the births of children who have it so much harder than everybody else, then that God is not deserving of worship.

[Shyone]

 

That event is likely the central reason of why I am not Christian. If the god of the Bible can allow miscarriages and allow the births of children who have it so much harder than everybody else, then that God is not deserving of worship.

My first wife had a spontaneous abortion when I was still Christian. I was disappointed, and as it turned out that was my last chance to ever have a child. I just figured it was nature, and nature isn't always nice.

 

Just as I don't look forward to my extinction, I don't look forward to the extinction of my genes. It's a double whammy. But that's the way my life turned out. I don't blame anyone or anything.

[NotBlinded]

 

That event is likely the central reason of why I am not Christian. If the god of the Bible can allow miscarriages and allow the births of children who have it so much harder than everybody else, then that God is not deserving of worship.

My first wife had a spontaneous abortion when I was still Christian. I was disappointed, and as it turned out that was my last chance to ever have a child. I just figured it was nature, and nature isn't always nice.

 

Just as I don't look forward to my extinction, I don't look forward to the extinction of my genes. It's a double whammy. But that's the way my life turned out. I don't blame anyone or anything.

That sucks Shyone. I know you don't want sympathy, but dang it.

[NotBlinded]

The logic of the Bible is so fucking skewed when it comes to miscarriages. The event was fucking horrible to say the least. I had to carry a fetus (born in the bedroom of my apartment) in a plastic bowl to the hospital, and from outward appearances he looked like a human being on a path of regular development. There were no visible birth defects like the ones mentioned above. If the God of the Bible truly wanted that child to be conceived, why the fuck did my spouse's water break well into the second trimester? To me, if a child was meant to be conceived then the child should have been brought to full-term to live life like every other child that's been born before and after. To this day, my wife and I still cannot conceive a child. Seems unfair to me I guess.

 

That event is likely the central reason of why I am not Christian. If the god of the Bible can allow miscarriages and allow the births of children who have it so much harder than everybody else, then that God is not deserving of worship.

OMG that's horrible. Your stories are tearing my heart out!

[MathGeek]

Just as I don't look forward to my extinction, I don't look forward to the extinction of my genes. It's a double whammy. But that's the way my life turned out. I don't blame anyone or anything.

 

I am glad such attitudes exist. I am still in pain over the loss because my friends and family are having children left and right. The pain has subsided somewhat with time, but the horrible memory of that day will always be my deepest sorrow. I can't blame anyone or anything for the loss of my child either, but it doesn't make the emptiness feel any easier.

[MathGeek]

OMG that's horrible. Your stories are tearing my heart out!

 

Thanks NotBlinded. *gives a big hug*

[Shyone]

 

That sucks Shyone. I know you don't want sympathy, but dang it.

That's just the breaks. My descendants lost the genetic lottery - like uncountable other potential descendants.

 

On a personal level, it does hurt, but humanity won't die out because I do. I don't mean to sound nonchalant, but there is no other attitude that is reasonable. I can't very well mourn, or rape someone, so I accept it.

[NotBlinded]

OMG that's horrible. Your stories are tearing my heart out!

 

Thanks NotBlinded. *gives a big hug*

You know, there's not anything that upsets me more than this but there is something that comes close and it's the cold Christians (or any religious person) that would stand off and say how blessed they are that something like this has never happened to them. Blessed? What does that say about what happened to you? I think that is a horrible thing to say to someone. Life isn't fair and the least we can do is empathize with people that it has happened to instead of sitting back and feeling chosen.

 

Anyway, *hugs back at you*.

[NotBlinded]

 

That sucks Shyone. I know you don't want sympathy, but dang it.

That's just the breaks. My descendants lost the genetic lottery - like uncountable other potential descendants.

 

On a personal level, it does hurt, but humanity won't die out because I do. I don't mean to sound nonchalant, but there is no other attitude that is reasonable. I can't very well mourn, or rape someone, so I accept it.

Here's a virtual hug anyway Shyone... *hugs*

[Shyone]

 

That sucks Shyone. I know you don't want sympathy, but dang it.

That's just the breaks. My descendants lost the genetic lottery - like uncountable other potential descendants.

 

On a personal level, it does hurt, but humanity won't die out because I do. I don't mean to sound nonchalant, but there is no other attitude that is reasonable. I can't very well mourn, or rape someone, so I accept it.

Here's a virtual hug anyway Shyone... *hugs*

Thanks. I do really appreciate it.

[Naughtyhamster]

I don't get it about Christians either. I've seen so many sites with Christians who think it's their duty to have one disabled kid after an another for "Gawd's Glory" and are selfish of not thinking of how their kids suffer for their beliefs.

 

I have a friend who didn't know her two youngest kids ( by her second husband) had a rare genetic disorder for a long time, and when she found out after her son was born and got sick at six weeks old her and her husband drew the line at having any more children. As three of her five kids (one is autistic and bipolar*) are seriously ill they didn't want to have the financial and emotional strain of having any more sick kids in the family.

 

* This poor kid is hers from her first marriage where she thought her first husband's quirky behavior was because he was Pentecostal. He ranted in tongues quite a lot,and spoke of angels and demons, so people dismissed his behavior as Christian and not as undiagnosed bipolar disorder. I'm so glad my friend was level headed enough to find a pediatrician, when her kid started to act like her father did, rather than think her kid's "speaking in tongues" was of a religious matter.

[CaliGirl]

Any christian that sees those scriptures as more than just prose and decides to take them literally is being foolish.

[CaliGirl]

Hmm I am not seeing how to edit posts... but anyway that may have come across as a bit more harsh than I meant it

[NotBlinded]

Hmm I am not seeing how to edit posts... but anyway that may have come across as a bit more harsh than I meant it

You'll be able to edit after a short number of posts. Maybe it's 25? I'm not sure, but welcome! I look forward to reading your thoughts.

[Sybaris]

It's all because of Original Sin!

Adam & Eve ate an apple 6000 years ago, therfore God has to make all these deformed kids. The logic is flawless!

 

I know you're being facetious but I have heard that excuse before from fundies. I've also heard the one in a previous post about challenging us in our lives. This sets up a question for Bible Man which I have never heard answer, why the deformed animals?