Spiritual Elitism

[mikey101]

The Christian people I used to be around always said 'we don't have a religion, we have the truth' or the equivalent 'Jesus is not a religion'.

 

Yes it is.

 

New Age people said the same thing 'we have spirituality, not religion'. In other words, 'we're better than everyone else who believes differently'.

 

Yes it is religion. It's Eastern religious beliefs mixed with Western thinking. It's called the New Age religious movement.

 

Then I heard Buddhists say the same thing. Ours is not a religion.

 

So, basically the 'other guy' is saying the exact same thing. He's saying you have a religion and he has spirituality.

 

I guess none of these people went to college or read very many books. It makes them feel better to be better than everyone else who believes differently than they do.

 

It's called elitism.

 

 

[florduh]

Back in the old hippie days we called those people the "groovier than thou" folks. Yes, we still have them.

[mikey101]

 

Back in the old hippie days we called those people the "groovier than thou" folks. Yes, we still have them.

 

Maybe even more now. This is why I like Wiccans. Every Wiccan I've known calls their religion a religion. They aren't trying to be better than everyone else who believes differently.

[Castiel233]

The Christian people I used to be around always said 'we don't have a religion, we have the truth' or the equivalent '

I remember seeing a clip from "Jesus Camp" and the woman being interviewed said something along the lines of " I'm sorry , but we have got the TRUTH". 

 

How the heck do they know they have got the "truth". They have got a book, I'll grant then that much.

[mikey101]

 

 

 

The Christian people I used to be around always said 'we don't have a religion, we have the truth' or the equivalent '

I remember seeing a clip from "Jesus Camp" and the woman being interviewed said something along the lines of " I'm sorry , but we have got the TRUTH". 

 

How the heck do they know they have got the "truth". They have got a book, I'll grant then that much.

 

 

I talked to some 'Emergent' Christians about this. Emergent means they're trying to integrate Christianity a little better into modern Western thinking, by doing things like not believing in traditional hell or believing strictly that Jesus dying on the cross for our sins is the only way to salvation. So I said if Jesus is not the only Truth and there are many truths, then a different religion is just as good? They said no, even though there are many truths to find God, Jesus is the best truth out there to find God. LOL that's basically the same thing, you're making people who believe differently out to be inferior.

[Orbit]

The Christian people I used to be around always said 'we don't have a religion, we have the truth' or the equivalent 'Jesus is not a religion'. Yes it is. New Age people said the same thing 'we have spirituality, not religion'. In other words, 'we're better than everyone else who believes differently'. Yes it is religion. It's Eastern religious beliefs mixed with Western thinking. It's called the New Age religious movement. Then I heard Buddhists say the same thing. Ours is not a religion. So, basically the 'other guy' is saying the exact same thing. He's saying you have a religion and he has spirituality. I guess none of these people went to college or read very many books. It makes them feel better to be better than everyone else who believes differently than they do. It's called elitism.

I use Buddhist meditation, but I don't think that makes me groovier than anyone else. I just like it. Meditation isn't a religion, though it is informed by Buddhism, which is (or can be). I think of Eastern philosophy as philosophy, not religion. There is no worship involved.

[Vigile]

Back in the old hippie days we called those people the "groovier than thou" folks. Yes, we still have them.

 

Ha! Hipsters, before hipsters were born.  And yeah, they're a bit of a plague. 

[Vigile]

 

Back in the old hippie days we called those people the "groovier than thou" folks. Yes, we still have them.

 

Maybe even more now. This is why I like Wiccans. Every Wiccan I've known calls their religion a religion. They aren't trying to be better than everyone else who believes differently.

 

 

Does that mean the Wiccans are by default better?

 

[Deva]

Yes people are really good at self-deception and they like to feel special. 

[mikey101]

 

 

 

 

Back in the old hippie days we called those people the "groovier than thou" folks. Yes, we still have them.

 

Maybe even more now. This is why I like Wiccans. Every Wiccan I've known calls their religion a religion. They aren't trying to be better than everyone else who believes differently.

 

 

Does that mean the Wiccans are by default better?

 

 

 

Having particular religious beliefs doesn't makes a person better than another. Whether it's Buddhist religious beliefs, Atheist religious beliefs, Christian religious beliefs, Wiccan religious beliefs, etc. We're all human beings.

 

Just because some are better at some things than others, doesn't make them better people than others. I'm better at playing music than my friend, but that doesn't make me a better person. We're all human.

[Deva]

 

The Christian people I used to be around always said 'we don't have a religion, we have the truth' or the equivalent 'Jesus is not a religion'. Yes it is. New Age people said the same thing 'we have spirituality, not religion'. In other words, 'we're better than everyone else who believes differently'. Yes it is religion. It's Eastern religious beliefs mixed with Western thinking. It's called the New Age religious movement. Then I heard Buddhists say the same thing. Ours is not a religion. So, basically the 'other guy' is saying the exact same thing. He's saying you have a religion and he has spirituality. I guess none of these people went to college or read very many books. It makes them feel better to be better than everyone else who believes differently than they do. It's called elitism.

I use Buddhist meditation, but I don't think that makes me groovier than anyone else. I just like it. Meditation isn't a religion, though it is informed by Buddhism, which is (or can be). I think of Eastern philosophy as philosophy, not religion. There is no worship involved.

 

 

Why would "worship" be connected with spiritual elitism? Just want to get your position clear.  In Buddhism there is a lot of worship involved, in my experience, although the worship is not of a god.  Maybe some people have different versions of Buddhism, though.  I can say I have not really heard any Buddhist say that Buddhism "is not a religion."

[Orbit]

 

 

The Christian people I used to be around always said 'we don't have a religion, we have the truth' or the equivalent 'Jesus is not a religion'. Yes it is. New Age people said the same thing 'we have spirituality, not religion'. In other words, 'we're better than everyone else who believes differently'. Yes it is religion. It's Eastern religious beliefs mixed with Western thinking. It's called the New Age religious movement. Then I heard Buddhists say the same thing. Ours is not a religion. So, basically the 'other guy' is saying the exact same thing. He's saying you have a religion and he has spirituality. I guess none of these people went to college or read very many books. It makes them feel better to be better than everyone else who believes differently than they do. It's called elitism.

I use Buddhist meditation, but I don't think that makes me groovier than anyone else. I just like it. Meditation isn't a religion, though it is informed by Buddhism, which is (or can be). I think of Eastern philosophy as philosophy, not religion. There is no worship involved.

 

 

Why would "worship" be connected with spiritual elitism? Just want to get your position clear.  In Buddhism there is a lot of worship involved, in my experience, although the worship is not of a god.  Maybe some people have different versions of Buddhism, though.  I can say I have not really heard any Buddhist say that Buddhism "is not a religion."

 

I don't practice Buddhism, so I don't know. I practice meditation divorced from belonging to Buddhism. I have an interest in Buddhist philosophy, but not with organized Buddhism. Organized religions give me hives.

[mikey101]

 

 

 

The Christian people I used to be around always said 'we don't have a religion, we have the truth' or the equivalent 'Jesus is not a religion'. Yes it is. New Age people said the same thing 'we have spirituality, not religion'. In other words, 'we're better than everyone else who believes differently'. Yes it is religion. It's Eastern religious beliefs mixed with Western thinking. It's called the New Age religious movement. Then I heard Buddhists say the same thing. Ours is not a religion. So, basically the 'other guy' is saying the exact same thing. He's saying you have a religion and he has spirituality. I guess none of these people went to college or read very many books. It makes them feel better to be better than everyone else who believes differently than they do. It's called elitism.

I use Buddhist meditation, but I don't think that makes me groovier than anyone else. I just like it. Meditation isn't a religion, though it is informed by Buddhism, which is (or can be). I think of Eastern philosophy as philosophy, not religion. There is no worship involved.

 

Buddhists do not worship Buddha or any gods, they try to attain Buddhahood. Whether you call the Buddhist religion a philosophy or religion is up to you. Going by the academic definition, The Four Noble Truths is a religious doctrine. A religious doctrine can be beliefs, principles, teachings, philosophies, etc taught within a religion.

[florduh]

I know several people who say they practice some Buddhist principles (me included) but I know only one who is actually a Buddhist. It seems to me one of the least offensive religions, though they have their whackos and sects like everybody else.

 

It's the people loudly proclaiming, "I'm not religious, I'm spiritual" who seem to be the New Age Fundies. Meditation, living in the moment and appreciating nature seems a natural state to me and nothing to brag about.

[Deva]

There is a lot of worship in Buddhism as an organized religion. I speak from experience.  Its easy to transfer "worship" from a God figure to a human figure.  This is seen everywhere, even in popular culture with its worship of actors and actresses.

If you want to, you may remove yourself from the organization and "do your own thing", but in an organized form it involves worship of the master or lama. Most definitely, both Zen and Tibetan forms. They don't use the word "worship" instead it is "devotion" but I can't see a difference.

[Orbit]

 

 

The Christian people I used to be around always said 'we don't have a religion, we have the truth' or the equivalent 'Jesus is not a religion'. Yes it is. New Age people said the same thing 'we have spirituality, not religion'. In other words, 'we're better than everyone else who believes differently'. Yes it is religion. It's Eastern religious beliefs mixed with Western thinking. It's called the New Age religious movement. Then I heard Buddhists say the same thing. Ours is not a religion. So, basically the 'other guy' is saying the exact same thing. He's saying you have a religion and he has spirituality. I guess none of these people went to college or read very many books. It makes them feel better to be better than everyone else who believes differently than they do. It's called elitism.

I use Buddhist meditation, but I don't think that makes me groovier than anyone else. I just like it. Meditation isn't a religion, though it is informed by Buddhism, which is (or can be). I think of Eastern philosophy as philosophy, not religion. There is no worship involved.

 

Buddhists do not worship Buddha or any gods, they try to attain Buddhahood. Whether you call the Buddhist religion a philosophy or religion is up to you. Going by the academic definition, The Four Noble Truths is a religious doctrine. A religious doctrine can be beliefs, principles, teachings, philosophies, etc taught within a religion.

 

I think there is a very real difference between an organized religion and the underlying philosophy, though.

[Deva]

I know several people who say they practice some Buddhist principles (me included) but I know only one who is actually a Buddhist. It seems to me one of the least offensive religions, though they have their whackos and sects like everybody else.

 

It's the people loudly proclaiming, "I'm not religious, I'm spiritual" who seem to be the New Age Fundies. Meditation, living in the moment and appreciating nature seems a natural state to me and nothing to brag about.

 

Agreed.  "Living in the moment" and "appreciating nature" is nothing special. It does not involve religion.  I will say not everyone has the capacity to appreciate nature and live in the moment.

[florduh]

I will say not everyone has the capacity to appreciate nature and live in the moment.

 

Then they are not enlightened as we and must be shunned!

[mikey101]

 

 

 

 

 

The Christian people I used to be around always said 'we don't have a religion, we have the truth' or the equivalent 'Jesus is not a religion'. Yes it is. New Age people said the same thing 'we have spirituality, not religion'. In other words, 'we're better than everyone else who believes differently'. Yes it is religion. It's Eastern religious beliefs mixed with Western thinking. It's called the New Age religious movement. Then I heard Buddhists say the same thing. Ours is not a religion. So, basically the 'other guy' is saying the exact same thing. He's saying you have a religion and he has spirituality. I guess none of these people went to college or read very many books. It makes them feel better to be better than everyone else who believes differently than they do. It's called elitism.

I use Buddhist meditation, but I don't think that makes me groovier than anyone else. I just like it. Meditation isn't a religion, though it is informed by Buddhism, which is (or can be). I think of Eastern philosophy as philosophy, not religion. There is no worship involved.

 

Buddhists do not worship Buddha or any gods, they try to attain Buddhahood. Whether you call the Buddhist religion a philosophy or religion is up to you. Going by the academic definition, The Four Noble Truths is a religious doctrine. A religious doctrine can be beliefs, principles, teachings, philosophies, etc taught within a religion.

 

I think there is a very real difference between an organized religion and the underlying philosophy, though.

 

I think that when you have a culture that believes in something, sometimes they want to meet together to meditate or pray, or they want to build a beautiful place that expresses their beliefs, or they want to organize to help the poor and the community. But everytime you have people grouped together, there are challenges, and then when a group gets really big they can align with governments, make questionable decisions, etc. The dynammics of groups is extremely complex and difficult if not impossible to manage correctly. I belong to a Native American group with 15 people in it, and we already have disagreements and problems to deal with lol.

[Vigile]

 

 

The Christian people I used to be around always said 'we don't have a religion, we have the truth' or the equivalent 'Jesus is not a religion'. Yes it is. New Age people said the same thing 'we have spirituality, not religion'. In other words, 'we're better than everyone else who believes differently'. Yes it is religion. It's Eastern religious beliefs mixed with Western thinking. It's called the New Age religious movement. Then I heard Buddhists say the same thing. Ours is not a religion. So, basically the 'other guy' is saying the exact same thing. He's saying you have a religion and he has spirituality. I guess none of these people went to college or read very many books. It makes them feel better to be better than everyone else who believes differently than they do. It's called elitism.

I use Buddhist meditation, but I don't think that makes me groovier than anyone else. I just like it. Meditation isn't a religion, though it is informed by Buddhism, which is (or can be). I think of Eastern philosophy as philosophy, not religion. There is no worship involved.

 

 

Why would "worship" be connected with spiritual elitism? Just want to get your position clear.  In Buddhism there is a lot of worship involved, in my experience, although the worship is not of a god.  Maybe some people have different versions of Buddhism, though.  I can say I have not really heard any Buddhist say that Buddhism "is not a religion."

 

 

What do they worship?  When I was in Thailand, the Thais would get up early and perform rituals, including leaving food, lighting candles and doing something like Tai Che in front of their shrines.  I never could figure out if they were just centering themselves or if they believed in some spirit or something. 

[Deva]

 

I will say not everyone has the capacity to appreciate nature and live in the moment.

 

Then they are not enlightened as we and must be shunned!

 

I wouldn't say that, but I personally would like to distance myself from these types.   This is the kind of person who would walk by a beautiful bird or animal, and not see it because they have their damned earphones on or are wired to some kind of device. They literally cannot see or hear nature.  Yep, I do think there is something deficient about them.  I really do.

[Deva]

 

 

 

The Christian people I used to be around always said 'we don't have a religion, we have the truth' or the equivalent 'Jesus is not a religion'. Yes it is. New Age people said the same thing 'we have spirituality, not religion'. In other words, 'we're better than everyone else who believes differently'. Yes it is religion. It's Eastern religious beliefs mixed with Western thinking. It's called the New Age religious movement. Then I heard Buddhists say the same thing. Ours is not a religion. So, basically the 'other guy' is saying the exact same thing. He's saying you have a religion and he has spirituality. I guess none of these people went to college or read very many books. It makes them feel better to be better than everyone else who believes differently than they do. It's called elitism.

I use Buddhist meditation, but I don't think that makes me groovier than anyone else. I just like it. Meditation isn't a religion, though it is informed by Buddhism, which is (or can be). I think of Eastern philosophy as philosophy, not religion. There is no worship involved.

 

 

Why would "worship" be connected with spiritual elitism? Just want to get your position clear.  In Buddhism there is a lot of worship involved, in my experience, although the worship is not of a god.  Maybe some people have different versions of Buddhism, though.  I can say I have not really heard any Buddhist say that Buddhism "is not a religion."

 

 

What do they worship?  When I was in Thailand, the Thais would get up early and perform rituals, including leaving food, lighting candles and doing something like Tai Che in front of their shrines.  I never could figure out if they were just centering themselves or if they believed in some spirit or something. 

 

 

This whole question is interesting to me, because before I became involved in Buddhism I didn't think there was any worship involved.  But speaking from my experience with Tibetan Buddhism, in practice they really do worship the Buddhas. Again, the word "worship" is never used, but the word "devotion" is.  I can't see a difference.

[mikey101]

 

This whole question is interesting to me, because before I became involved in Buddhism I didn't think there was any worship involved.  But speaking from my experience with Tibetan Buddhism, in practice they really do worship the Buddhas. Again, the word "worship" is never used, but the word "devotion" is.  I can't see a difference.

 

The Buddha is just a man who attained enlightenment. I think the devotion is a tool to attain what the Buddha did. Worshipping the Buddha would imply that he is like a god who is separate from everyone else, but in Buddhism he's just a human being who found something and taught it to others so they can have the same experience.

[Deva]

 

This whole question is interesting to me, because before I became involved in Buddhism I didn't think there was any worship involved.  But speaking from my experience with Tibetan Buddhism, in practice they really do worship the Buddhas. Again, the word "worship" is never used, but the word "devotion" is.  I can't see a difference.

 

The Buddha is just a man who attained enlightenment. I think the devotion is a tool to attain what the Buddha did. Worshipping the Buddha would imply that he is like a god who is separate from everyone else, but in Buddhism he's just a human being who found something and taught it to others so they can have the same experience.

 

Maybe so.

[Deva]

 

 

 

The Christian people I used to be around always said 'we don't have a religion, we have the truth' or the equivalent 'Jesus is not a religion'. Yes it is. New Age people said the same thing 'we have spirituality, not religion'. In other words, 'we're better than everyone else who believes differently'. Yes it is religion. It's Eastern religious beliefs mixed with Western thinking. It's called the New Age religious movement. Then I heard Buddhists say the same thing. Ours is not a religion. So, basically the 'other guy' is saying the exact same thing. He's saying you have a religion and he has spirituality. I guess none of these people went to college or read very many books. It makes them feel better to be better than everyone else who believes differently than they do. It's called elitism.

I use Buddhist meditation, but I don't think that makes me groovier than anyone else. I just like it. Meditation isn't a religion, though it is informed by Buddhism, which is (or can be). I think of Eastern philosophy as philosophy, not religion. There is no worship involved.

 

Buddhists do not worship Buddha or any gods, they try to attain Buddhahood. Whether you call the Buddhist religion a philosophy or religion is up to you. Going by the academic definition, The Four Noble Truths is a religious doctrine. A religious doctrine can be beliefs, principles, teachings, philosophies, etc taught within a religion.

 

I think there is a very real difference between an organized religion and the underlying philosophy, though.

 

 

Yes, I found a huge disconnect between the practices of the organized religion and the philosophy.  I have only recently after 7 years felt that they can be reconciled, but its not easy for me to write about.