Who or What is the Beast of Revelation

[Kushne]

Hello,

 

In my constant attempt to debunk Christians regarding endtime prophecy, I run across new questions.  Recently, I was told that the Beast is a governmental system that we will all worship, etc.  But, in my reading of Revelation, it seems as if the Beast is designated as a man who will be worshipped.  What is correct?  I know some of you will say, who cares, or it doesn't matter because none of this is true--and I get all of that.  But, I have friends and family who still bug me about all of this-- and have their opinions.  I would like to have a "theological" perspective for my counter-arguments.  Any good information or what your church taught when you attended on this is greatly appreciated.

[florduh]

There is no "correct." Some think/guess it's governmental systems/alliances, others are convinced it refers to Nero, others say the Roman Empire as a whole. Google will probably lead you through the maze of Christian opinion on this piece of mythology.

[MOHO]

I have read in the new testicle that he is a being who seems to perform miracles that are actually deceptions.

 

Or am I confusing this with ... "is it SATAN?" 

[florduh]

MO, isn't that the Antichrist rather than Da Beest?

 

Edit: Never mind. IIRC some people consider the Beast and Antichrist as one and the same. Whatever!

[Joshpantera]

Of the available options, the only one that makes academic sense is Nero Caesar. And here's a preview of why:

 

 

[florduh]

I agree, the best case can be made for Nero.

[Joshpantera]

 

Hello,

 

In my constant attempt to debunk Christians regarding endtime prophecy, I run across new questions.  Recently, I was told that the Beast is a governmental system that we will all worship, etc.  But, in my reading of Revelation, it seems as if the Beast is designated as a man who will be worshipped.  What is correct?  I know some of you will say, who cares, or it doesn't matter because none of this is true--and I get all of that.  But, I have friends and family who still bug me about all of this-- and have their opinions.  I would like to have a "theological" perspective for my counter-arguments.  Any good information or what your church taught when you attended on this is greatly appreciated.

 

So, as you can see, the best counter argument of all would have to be the academic theologian one. What the other options lack is usually (1) knowledge of the fact that the oldest manuscript has it as 616, not 666, and that (2) both numbers of the beast work together, in both NT languages (Greek and Latin), to point at the same man from that ancient time period. And it says in most translations that the number of the beast is the number of man, or the number of a man. 

 

Here's some added depth. @DarkBishop Maybe some of the other Hebrew savvy members will get a kick out of this. The numbers 666 in Hebrew are "vav," "vav," "vav." If you look at the spelling of each "vav" you can further break it down v= 6, a=1, v=6. So I found that 616 is embedded in each of the 6's in 666 - as vav, vav, vav. Both W and V translate to vav in Hebrew. 

 

I was going to use this handy insight in a sci-fi plot about the Internet as the mark of the beast. lol

 

WWW.com = 666.com in Hebrew!!!

 

But then, I had to also incorporate Nero Caesar somehow to cover every base. So I looked at the symbolic meaning of each character, because letters and numbers also have associated symbolic meaning. And what I found was, v = "to secure", a = "strength, leader, first", v = "to secure."

 

Time to get creative again. So I thought that this could roughly describe the survival of the fittest tendency in nature, and the world leader of the time, Nero Caesar, represented the top of the pile, the peak of the pyramid, the fittest of nature. And then went into an elaborate scheme about how an advancing society has to outgrow the survival of the fittest attitude, which, holds us back at later evolutionary stages of development and is the "mark of the beast" keeping human beings in an animalistic, and less sophisticated frame of mind. And the end of the beast in Revelation, I projected as the end of the animalistic perceptions in humanity, which included the END of the churches because they'd all been unknowingly worshiping the beast all along, worshiping their own egoic desires for eternal life and what not. And claiming to be the "first", the "best," the "one and only truth," all of which is beastly mentality. And in the end the remaining church people, "wailed and gnashed teeth," when their time was finally up and everything was openly exposed for what it has always been for centuries.... 

 

See, that's how any one can twist the Beast of Revelation in just about 'any' direction, fictionally of course, but only one explanation out of a multitude makes any real sense. And that's that the writer of Revelation was talking about the world leader of the time and place in which he was writing. Not thousands of years into the future! Sticking to the academic analysis described in the video is the best way of keeping would be anti-christ and beast fear mongerers on the straight and narrow.....

[♦ Fuego ♦]

Historically, I think it refers to Nero. Openly publishing something critical of Nero at that time would be asking for death, so it was veiled in symbolism.

 

Then again, it was a cult writing, seems to be an out of body dream and the symbols may have meaning or more likely are just folderol. So the beast isn't really a thing, nor the rest of the story. As Shakespeare put it "A tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

 

Believers spend a lot of time trying to read-into the symbols. They do this for the old testament tabernacle also, trying desperately to find some ooh-aah experiences that make their god seem more real or spooky, when all the while he never existed outside of the stories they read.

[mwc]

     Some time age I saw a good case made for Gaius Caesar but I'd be inclined to say that the Revelation as we have it means for Nero to be the beast.  I tend to be one of the crowd that thinks that this is an original Jewish document that got a xian makeover over time.

 

          mwc