HuaiDan Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Once again, I'm the thread killer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shiva H. Vishnu Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 I guess it's my Libra nature (although I really believe astrology, along with all things described as paranormal, are bullshit) that I often choose to play devil's advocate. As such, I know I'm supposed to take a literalist approach in dubunking yon apologists argument, because that's the most direct, convenient route. However, I must give the bible's rendition of Jesus' comments here the benefit of the doubt. Jesus (assuming his existence) spoke in parables and metaphors, if not predominantly, certainly quite frequently. Plugging "drink poison" into that equation, I would take it to mean that a true believer's pure spirit will not be tainted by the evil of the world. A broader examination of the chapter will yield a deeper understanding of the meaning of the term (CONTEXT). However, an apologist runs into OTHER serious problems if he takes the metaphor/parable approach. Certainly, the wisdom of heaven would be riddles to the ears of mortal men, but WHY would a TIMELESS entity like a god speak in TIMELY metaphors? Sure, he was speaking to the men of that day and age, blah, blah, blather, but I seriously doubt the character, the validity, the exsistence of a god who demands our obedience and adherence to his absolute law, yet does not provide clear, indisputable, timeless instruction for his creation across the ages. CHALLENGE TO APOLOGISTS: Go ahead. Call the bible clear, timeless, indisputable. I dare you. Yeah! Everyone hatesa squirrel killer. Don't front all you squirrel haters. God knows what you've done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shiva H. Vishnu Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Wait a minute. Did this thread have anything to do with squirrels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuaiDan Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 I don't even remember typing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHEMtron Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 you shouldve left it at the killing of squirrels... then you wouldnt have been the thread killer. but it looks like the title now goes to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Mother Atheist Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Well I have something to say Everyone always says people aren't supposed to test God. However, the Bible clearly has at least one example of a man testing God and God goes along with it. It is the whole fleece and dew story...remember? Also, there is a verse somewhere (if I were talking to Christians I would quote it, but right now it's not that important to go look it up) that says we should always question the Holy Spirit (aka God aka Jesus). So why do people say we aren't supposed to test God? I suppose there is another CONTRADICTING verse that says we are not supposed to question God because that was someone's opinion and they wrote it down and now it is taken as TRUTH. Oh and I loved how the Christian vargo has been talking to took the sentence from Crick OUT OF CONTEXT. Lovely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vargo Posted June 30, 2006 Author Share Posted June 30, 2006 this person will not give up God is loving and kind. He demands obedience to a law that humans cannot fulfill then gives him grace to walk by the holy spirit. If he gave us a black and white roadmap we would live by rules and not by walkng in the Holy Spirit. God is spirit and we must worship in spirit and truth. Jesus spoke often in parables, and said "to him that has an ear" Vargo, Whatever you belive about God is not going to make you more powerful or God any less omnipotent. If you get to define God, make him in your imaage he would not be God, now would he. Try listing all of your requirements for God. You have created the God of your imagination. In fact, many people do just that. Now if you believe there is a God, a real God, now one in your mind, ask him to make himself known to you. Ask and you shall recieve. Some day, you shall recieve. It will do you no good to try to pick apart scripture. Once you have connected with God, you will have the ability to understand the Word of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Mother Atheist Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Vargo, Whatever you belive about God is not going to make you more powerful or God any less omnipotent. If you get to define God, make him in your imaage he would not be God, now would he. Try listing all of your requirements for God. You have created the God of your imagination. In fact, many people do just that. UGH! HELLO! That is what everyone who believes in any god anywhere is doing! They are creating a god! How can they be so close to seeing it and just...NOT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHEMtron Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 I dont know how your exact conversation with him went, but from what i can read, it's a typical Christian cop-out. initial post you argued about handling snakes and drinking poison. He refused to touch that subject and said it's ridiculous to ask a Christian to do that. Obviously it's because deep down he knows this scripture is wrong. then he goes on to try to argue using science. -He lost the moment he used a militant atheist as his source. He took him out of context, and failed (most likely done intentionally) to mention that person's view on how life began on earth. Now with this last post, his last resort is to say you need to pray and be filled with the Holy Spirit to understand scripture. Your view is due to the interpretations you receive from reading the bible yourself. It is no different from what church fathers have done. So what makes your interpretation any different? As in, what makes the church fathers different? Since they use the same methods to derive their understanding and teachings of God, why doesnt he make a claim the traditional teachings he goes by isnt one of the church fathers creating God in his/their own image? Once a person says God is this way, God does this, God does that, and there is no direct literal scripture that says God is this way, God does this, God does that, but is derived from an interpretation from a story, then right there that person is making God in their own image. If youve ever listened to a minister or priest give a sermon, or been to a bible study, youll know this is what is always done. This person claiming you need to pray or be filled with the Holy Spirit to understand scripture is usually said once a person cannot defend themselves. It's one of the major cop-outs used. If a person never directly answers your question and resorts to "you need the holy spirit," "you just have to believe," "well i know what he's done for me," etc. etc. etc., dont let them divert from the point at hand. Tell them they need to give you a direct answer... afterall , their bible tells them to: And do not fear their intimidation, and do not be troubled, but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope is in you, yet with the gentleness and reverence; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 You have created the God of your imagination. In fact, many people do just that. Congratulations Vargo you have found a True Christian! Rejoice my friend for this is always a rare occasion! Now if you believe there is a God, a real God, now one in your mind, ask him to make himself known to you. Ask and you shall recieve. Some day, you shall recieve. It will do you no good to try to pick apart scripture. Once you have connected with God, you will have the ability to understand the Word of God. I would find out how you can verify this. How can you truly know if you are filled with the spirit of the one true god? It appears that there are nearly 30,000 sects of xians all saying that their interpretation is the correct one and they all say that they get their version from the same spirit from the same god. You don't wish to be tricked by a lying spirit or your own imagination (like many people appear to be). Surely the person you are speaking with can see what a critical time this is for you? It's important that you become a True Scotsman as they are. So you need to know how it is that their interpretation can be verified as the one and only 100% exact hand delivered perfect interpretation given by the spirit and everyone else's is not so you will not be misled (in short, who's feeding them their line of crap?). mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHEMtron Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 MWC is my tagteam partner on Ex-Christian.Net check the link. this is what he was refering to: No True Scotsman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Vargo, Whatever you belive about God is not going to make you more powerful or God any less omnipotent. If you get to define God, make him in your imaage he would not be God, now would he. Try listing all of your requirements for God. You have created the God of your imagination. In fact, many people do just that. UGH! HELLO! That is what everyone who believes in any god anywhere is doing! They are creating a god! How can they be so close to seeing it and just...NOT! Indeed! I was going to say that. They think the book is telling them what god is, but they forget that is was from the minds of men to begin with. Funny how the Christian god has so many human qualities and they don't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 MWC is my tagteam partner on Ex-Christian.Net check the link. this is what he was refering to: No True Scotsman Just noticed this. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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