The World is divided into two groups ...

[Alice]

I've been skulking around in the background here for a week or so. I guess I'm in the process of deconverting - but I'm really struggling with something that is quite unexpected to me ... it's this....

 

I seem to be coming across the same sort of attitudes that were part of the reason I got turned off christianity in the first place.

 

I'm finding the posts that seem to describe ALL christians as stupid, or arrogant, or weak minded, or thoughtless - really hard to stomach. Just as I found comments within the church that non christians were ALL selfish or lost or unhappy or full of pride or whatever they were being accused of hard to swallow.

 

I see thoughtless, mixed up, arrogant, mindless, selfish, irritating people on both sides of this apparent divide. I see loving, thoughtful, intelligent, amazing happy people on both sides too.

 

If there have to be sides - I want to be on the side of the ones who see beyond the words or stories people use to explain their take on life to what lies beneath.

 

Is the bad attitude thing part of the deconverting process? I so don't want it to be.

[Ouroboros]

I've been skulking around in the background here for a week or so.  I guess I'm in the process of deconverting - but I'm really struggling with something that is quite unexpected to me ... it's this....

 

I seem to be coming across the same sort of attitudes that were part of the reason I got turned off christianity in the first place.

 

I'm finding the posts that seem to describe ALL christians as stupid, or arrogant, or weak minded, or thoughtless - really hard to stomach. Just as I found comments within the church that non christians were ALL selfish or lost or unhappy or full of pride or whatever they were being accused of hard to swallow.

 

I see thoughtless, mixed up, arrogant, mindless, selfish, irritating people on both sides of this apparent divide. I see loving, thoughtful, intelligent, amazing happy people on both sides too.

 

If there have to be sides - I want to be on the side of the ones who see beyond the words or stories people use to explain their take on life to what lies beneath.

 

Is the bad attitude thing part of the deconverting process? I so don't want it to be.

 

Well, the truth is that you have humans on both sides. And humans will follow their human instincts.

 

So selfishness, arrogance etc, will forever exist on both sides.

 

Sometimes we can go out with flaming comments because we have so much built up frustration and/or anger. And sometimes we overreact and generalize and stereotype.

 

We all know, deep down, that there are good Christians too, that doesn’t go out on a fundamentalist rally to convert every infidel they encounter.

 

But we just love the warfare, so when Christians come on board for discussion, we’re all over it, and tear it to pieces, like ravaging dogs. It’s the love for the game.

 

When it comes to which side to chose, well then it’s up to you. We have our arguments, and religion has its. We like to think that we actually argue by logic, proof, facts, reason and rationality. We don’t like arguments based solely on faith, those we’ll chew out quickly.

 

My own personal opinion is that I respect and accept religion, as long as it’s not imposed on people. The freedom declared in the first amendment should still apply, and when people start to dissemble the constitution and claim ownership of it, in the name of God, then we’re in for big trouble.

 

Not everyone are raging bulls after they de-converted, so you shouldn’t have to be either.

 

Oh, and welcome to the site

[Curtdude]

Hi Hesitant,

 

I've made the same observations and I appreciate your sensitivity. I certainly am not a believer any more, but I don't assume that people believe in religion because they are stupid, or simpletons. It's very complex why people join groups like this: sometimes religious life seems more tribal than anything. Belonging to a group that says, "I'm right and going to heaven, you're wrong and will cook in hell" certainly is a strong group identifier. You always know where you stand, yes sir-ee.

 

But it does anger me still to think that (1) I was duped into believing all of that, (2) I laid that gulit trip on a lot of folks (and none of them deserved it), and (3) even after many years of being away from the church, the emotional and psychological scars are still there. I believe that the hostility you are reading on this site stems from circumstances such as that. And yes, if you bag the whole religion thing, you'll probably not just turn a corner in your life and forget about what you just escaped from. The church asked us to sacrifice A LOT when we became believers, and when you realize that it was a sham, it pisses you off. If it doesn't, then you probably still believe all of that "you're not worthy" stuff.

 

There is a wonderfully liberating aspect to apostacy: you no longer must join a group for your identity. Some apostates may use language you don't like...welcome to the big world of free choice, babe. Geez, you mean there are people who I don't agree with? Duh. When christians (and other religious folks) find this site offensive, I remind myself that they believe in a deity that has condemned most of humanity to the fire. Also, there are many on this site who simply have gotten over being so angry all of the time: it's exhausting. You finally just shrug your shoulders and say, "Whatever - religion is just insane." But these will not be posting on a discussion about being angry, since they just aren't anymore.

 

Good luck on your journey...this site is helpful, but the path is not primarly a group effort. It's with you.

 

Curtdude

San Francisco

[SmallStone]

Hi Hesitent and welcome.

 

The raging bull thing certainly wasn't a part of my deconversion process. I just forgot about the whole mess and walked away from it. There wasn't really a lot of emotion either way. "This is stupid. I'm out."

 

As you are coming to realize, xtianity is an untenable and irrational position to hold. Faith is the only way by which it can be defended. At some point in time, you have to decide what apellations are appropriate for those that indulge in such behavior. Chances are, your opinion will change as your apostasy develops.

[Alice]

Well, the truth is that you have humans on both sides. And humans will follow their human instincts.

 

So selfishness, arrogance etc, will forever exist on both sides.

 

Sometimes we can go out with flaming comments because we have so much built up frustration and/or anger. And sometimes we overreact and generalize and stereotype.

 

We all know, deep down, that there are good Christians too, that doesn’t go out on a fundamentalist rally to convert every infidel they encounter.

 

But we just love the warfare, so when Christians come on board for discussion, we’re all over it, and tear it to pieces, like ravaging dogs. It’s the love for the game.

 

When it comes to which side to chose, well then it’s up to you. We have our arguments, and religion has its. We like to think that we actually argue by logic, proof, facts, reason and rationality. We don’t like arguments based solely on faith, those we’ll chew out quickly.

 

My own personal opinion is that I respect and accept religion, as long as it’s not imposed on people. The freedom declared in the first amendment should still apply, and when people start to dissemble the constitution and claim ownership of it, in the name of God, then we’re in for big trouble.

 

Not everyone are raging bulls after they de-converted, so you shouldn’t have to be either.

 

Oh, and welcome to the site

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thanks for the welcome.

 

I guess I'm noticing the thing that is the biggest problem to me - and for this reason it may be somewhat magnified in my mind (I've just reviewed the conversations that seemed problematic to me on my first read and noticed that not all the responses fell into what I would see as a 'bad attitude' category)

 

I'm all for arguments that are based on logic, reason and rationality - which I think is why I balk at some of the responses I have seen - that to me sound like mean spirited insults rather than reasoned responses.

 

I'd rather be back in church hiding my disbelief under my floral frock than calling someone stupid for holding beliefs I so recently subscribed to.

 

But I didn't like the warfare bit when I was on the other side, I was always crap at the evangelising thing.

 

I'm just a bit freaked out by what seems to be the number of fundamentalists in the non christian world. (This term to me means people that have little respect for those who do not share their beliefs, assume they are right and that its OK to humiliate and patronise)

[Ouroboros]

But it does anger me still to think that (1) I was duped into believing all of that, (2) I laid that gulit trip on a lot of folks (and none of them deserved it), and (3) even after many years of being away from the church, the emotional and psychological scars are still there.  I believe that the hostility you are reading on this site stems from circumstances such as that.  And yes, if you bag the whole religion thing, you'll probably not just turn a corner in your life and forget about what you just escaped from.  The church asked us to sacrifice A LOT when we became believers, and when you realize that it was a sham, it pisses you off.  If it doesn't, then you probably still believe all of that "you're not worthy" stuff.

 

Hey Curtdude, welcome to the site!

 

The anger you feel being duped etc, I think is the reason why some apostates react in a wild and uncontrolled manner in some responses.

 

The anger is usually a natural response after you’ve realized you’ve been fooled.

 

It’s your anger at your own denial when you were being duped.

[Ouroboros]

Thanks for the welcome.

 

I guess I'm noticing the thing that is the biggest problem to me - and for this reason it may be somewhat magnified in my mind (I've just reviewed the conversations that seemed problematic to me on my first read and noticed that not all the responses fell into what I would see as a 'bad attitude' category)

 

I'm all for arguments that are based on logic, reason and rationality - which I think is why I balk at some of the responses I have seen - that to me sound like mean spirited insults rather than reasoned responses.

 

I'd rather be back in church hiding my disbelief under my floral frock than calling someone stupid for holding beliefs I so recently subscribed to.

 

But I didn't like the warfare bit when I was on the other side, I was always crap at the evangelising thing.

 

I'm just a bit freaked out by what seems to be the number of fundamentalists in the non christian world. (This term to me means people that have little respect for those who do not share their beliefs, assume they are right and that its OK to humiliate and patronise)

 

I didn’t like the warfare part when I was Christian either. I didn’t like discussions too much either, because I was afraid that the other person would have better arguments or know more than me.

 

So I spent 30 good years to find all the right arguments for my belief.

 

But it took me only one year to find all the right arguments to not to believe.

 

My own approach today, is that I love arguing. I know I don’t have all answers, but it doesn’t shake my fundamental belief anymore to hear something I can’t answer to.

 

I’m not much of a “name-caller”. I want to rationalize and reason and twist arguments, not to degrade someone.

[Alice]

Hi Hesitant,

 

I've made the same observations and I appreciate your sensitivity.  I certainly am not a believer any more, but I don't assume that people believe in religion because they are stupid, or simpletons.  It's very complex why people join groups like this:  sometimes religious life seems more tribal than anything.  Belonging to a group that says, "I'm right and going to heaven, you're wrong and will cook in hell" certainly is a strong group identifier.  You always know where you stand, yes sir-ee.

 

But it does anger me still to think that (1) I was duped into believing all of that, (2) I laid that gulit trip on a lot of folks (and none of them deserved it), and (3) even after many years of being away from the church, the emotional and psychological scars are still there.  I believe that the hostility you are reading on this site stems from circumstances such as that.  And yes, if you bag the whole religion thing, you'll probably not just turn a corner in your life and forget about what you just escaped from.  The church asked us to sacrifice A LOT when we became believers, and when you realize that it was a sham, it pisses you off.  If it doesn't, then you probably still believe all of that "you're not worthy" stuff.

 

There is a wonderfully liberating aspect to apostacy:  you no longer must join a group for your identity.  Some apostates may use language you don't like...welcome to the big world of free choice, babe.  Geez, you mean there are people who I don't agree with?  Duh.  When christians (and other religious folks) find this site offensive, I remind myself that they believe in a deity that has condemned most of humanity to the fire.  Also, there are many on this site who simply have gotten over being so angry all of the time:  it's exhausting.  You finally just shrug your shoulders and say, "Whatever - religion is just insane."  But these will not be posting on a discussion about being angry, since they just aren't anymore.

 

Good luck on your journey...this site is helpful, but the path is not primarly a group effort.  It's with you.

 

Curtdude

San Francisco

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I guess I don't really see the point in being angry. Maybe I'm fortunate in that I haven't experienced some of the awful things others have suffered at the hands of the church - but I think it's more that I have a different way of seeing things,

 

The things that appealed to me about christianity - still appeal. In some ways - nothing has changed about me - I just have a different explanation as to why I do what I do. I still want to grow more loving, more compassionate, more caring every day. I still want to fight oppression (politely!) make the world a better place blah de blah, I just realised that I want to do this because its a good thing to do - not because someone told me to.

 

I've just realised that there are a whole load of explanations and stories that promote this way more consistently and positively than christianity - and its such a relief not to have to dodge all the nasty stuff in the Bible anymore.

 

But I'm not mad at the Bible either - I just see it as an outline of one thread of mankind trying to make semse of stuff (ok and failing big time in places)

 

I have been saddened by the 'friends' that have abandoned me - but I feel sad for them rather than angry with them (their loss - I'm lovely) I'm actually still interested in their positive expereinces of faith - those that haven't decided I'm dangerous to know still have amazing stories of how they believe God is working in their lives and I love sharing in the good things many of them are doing.

[I Broke Free]

I'd rather be back in church hiding my disbelief under my floral frock than calling someone stupid for holding beliefs I so recently subscribed to.

 

That is an admirable statement Hesitent. If that is how you feel, then you will be able to find people who post here that maintain that very sentiment. (Look up the posts made by “Reach.”)

 

I'm just a bit freaked out by what seems to be the number of fundamentalists in the non Christian world. (This term to me means people that have little respect for those who do not share their beliefs, assume they are right and that its OK to humiliate and patronize)

 

 

Please keep in mind that for many people on this board, this is the only place we can vent our frustrations about Christianity. Christians have the luxury of belonging to large support groups that promote their philosophy to the exclusion of all others. Our members do not have that that luxury, and in a way this forum acts as a safety valve that helps relieve some of the frustration we have.

 

We have many Christian visitors here. Some are here to learn, and some are here purely to antagonize. If they are from the latter group, I have been guilty of calling them “brainless twits.” It made me feel are warm and fuzzy inside when I did it.

[Alice]

That is an admirable statement Hesitent. If that is how you feel, then you will be able to find people who post here that maintain that very sentiment. (Look up the posts made by “Reach.”)

Please keep in mind that for many people on this board, this is the only place we can vent our frustrations about Christianity. Christians have the luxury of belonging to large support groups that promote their philosophy to the exclusion of all others. Our members do not have that that luxury, and in a way this forum acts as a safety valve that helps relieve some of the frustration we have.

 

We have many Christian visitors here. Some are here to learn, and some are here purely to antagonize. If they are from the latter group, I have been guilty of calling them “brainless twits.” It made me feel are warm and fuzzy inside when I did it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I guess I do need to show some understanding in relation to the frustrations others might be venting. I live in the UK and I think its only since I've been making this current journey and visiting various forums that I have realised how different things are in the states, there is nothing like the stigma here - of 'coming out' as a non believer as it were. I have felt a downturn in the support available because some of my friends from christian cirlces have deserted me, but I've always had friendships putside of my faith as well. (interestingly some of my non christian friends have been HORRIFIED by my faith crisis - not sure what that's about yet!)

[Ouroboros]

I guess I do need to show some understanding in relation to the frustrations others might be venting. I live in the UK and I think its only since I've been making this current journey and visiting various forums that I have realised how different things are in the states, there is nothing like the stigma here - of 'coming out' as a non believer as it were. I have felt a downturn in the support available because some of my friends from christian cirlces have deserted me, but I've always had friendships putside of  my faith as well. (interestingly some of my non christian friends have been HORRIFIED by my faith crisis - not sure what that's about yet!)

 

Unfortunately America’s neo-cons are becoming a Christian version of the Taliban, with statements like “atheists and liberals are not true patriots”. So being non-christian here, is less and less favorable. But I believe in the balance of the democracy, so the tide could turn and better years could be ahead.

[Merlinfmct87]

I've been skulking around in the background here for a week or so.  I guess I'm in the process of deconverting - but I'm really struggling with something that is quite unexpected to me ... it's this....

 

I seem to be coming across the same sort of attitudes that were part of the reason I got turned off christianity in the first place.

 

I'm finding the posts that seem to describe ALL christians as stupid, or arrogant, or weak minded, or thoughtless - really hard to stomach. Just as I found comments within the church that non christians were ALL selfish or lost or unhappy or full of pride or whatever they were being accused of hard to swallow.

 

I see thoughtless, mixed up, arrogant, mindless, selfish, irritating people on both sides of this apparent divide. I see loving, thoughtful, intelligent, amazing happy people on both sides too.

 

If there have to be sides - I want to be on the side of the ones who see beyond the words or stories people use to explain their take on life to what lies beneath.

 

Is the bad attitude thing part of the deconverting process? I so don't want it to be.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I can't speak to the deconversion process myself, since I never believed in the first place. However, I can speak to the binary thinking you so detest.

 

I have met many wonderful people myself on both sides as you say. The anger on the christian side is often based on fear and ignorance, while the anger on the apostate side is often based on a horrendus past experience.

 

If the only christians you were around hated your guts, it's going to be expected that you are going to have a sour opinoin of the group as a whole.

 

I do generally detest the absolute statement--"All of X are EEEEVIL" or "All of Y are Blessed" or "If you do X, you are automatically Y," so on and so forth. People are unique, they don't follow a strict set of assembly instructions... so don't try to force one on them.

 

Also, anger/angst, while being very common, isn't a sign that you are not a TRUE apsotate at present. To put it simply, if it isn't working, it isn't working. You need to follow your heart, not follow an official instruction sheet.

 

In any case, no matter where your road turns, welcome to Ex-Christian!

 

Merlin

[Alice]

Unfortunately America’s neo-cons are becoming a Christian version of the Taliban, with statements like “atheists and liberals are not true patriots”. So being non-christian here, is less and less favorable. But I believe in the balance of the democracy, so the tide could turn and better years could be ahead.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Lets hope so - I may be being a tad idealistic here but I guess I'd rather see a gentle response to fundamentalists, I think this undermines their approach - their thinking so thrives on feeling 'persecuted'.

 

Maybe 'turn the other cheek' is still a big time thing with me.

[Alice]

I can't speak to the deconversion process myself, since I never believed in the first place. However, I can speak to the binary thinking you so detest.

 

I have met many wonderful people myself on both sides as you say. The anger on the christian side is often based on fear and ignorance, while the anger on the apostate side is often based on a horrendus past experience.

 

If the only christians you were around hated your guts, it's going to be expected that you are going to have a sour opinoin of the group as a whole.

 

I do generally detest the absolute statement--"All of X are EEEEVIL" or "All of Y are Blessed" or "If you do X, you are automatically Y," so on and so forth. People are unique, they don't follow a strict set of assembly instructions... so don't try to force one on them.

 

Also, anger/angst, while being very common, isn't a sign that you are not a TRUE apsotate at present. To put it simply, if it isn't working, it isn't working. You need to follow your heart, not follow an official instruction sheet.

 

In any case, no matter where your road turns, welcome to Ex-Christian!

 

Merlin

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It is reassurring to find others that detest absolutes! I would so not want to leave one set of absolutes for a new set!

 

I'm really struggling to put this into words - but my deconversion thing has a lot to do with language and explanations that are given to emotions and feelings. I seem to see similarities in thought and patterns of behaviour differently from others.

 

What I'm wanting to escape from is a kind of dogmatic/oppressive/exclusive/unkind way of 'being'. Although this has meant questioning and abandoning my religion - I don't see this way of 'being' as belonging just to the church - I see it all over the place. I had the unfortunate experience today of spending an hour in a coffee shop with a copy of the 'Daily Express' Newspaper and at the end of it wanted to cry at the small mindedness of the politics within it. This paper makes fun of 'born again christians' but still managed to be dogmatic/oppressive/exclusive and unkind about its own set of issues.

 

I know this has to be a 'journey' of my own - but it is hard to travel solo, and I feel as though I keep coming up against the same things on the 'outside' that I was trying to get away from. (that's not to say I'm not begining to hear that there other voices out there speaking my language ... I am listening ... it's just that this is how I have been feeling ... having a moan I guess!)

[Ouroboros]

Lets hope so - I may be being a tad idealistic here but I guess I'd rather see a gentle response to fundamentalists, I think this undermines their approach - their thinking so thrives on feeling 'persecuted'.

 

Maybe 'turn the other cheek' is still a big time thing with me.

 

It's very true, unfortunately there tends to be some hard core people that go for a sniping tactics. They go in, shoot and leave. Or they just come to the site to convert us. That's not what the site is about. It's about sharing ideas.

 

If there is an honest Christian, coming in and ask serious questions, we try to oblige. There are several in this site, and they’re accepted and not bombarded with demeaning words.

 

In other words, if a Satanist goes into a church and start preaching that everyone in church are wrong and will be punished by the devil, because they got it all wrong etc. Some of the church members will be mighty upset, and start argue and even with violence try to remove the guy.

 

That’s kind of what happens sometimes here. If you come in with a humble attitude as you did, no one is angered. But when someone comes in with a superior attitude, then he will be shot at.

 

It’s nothing more than simple human behavior and psychology.

 

And about feeling persecution, I get the feeling as an ex-christian too. That Christians are out there trying to remove our freedom to non-belief.

[Eponymic]

First off let me say, from what you've told us so far, I think you have an absolutely fantastic attitude about life! Simply brilliant!

 

I guess I don't really see the point in being angry. Maybe I'm fortunate in that I haven't experienced some of the awful things others have suffered at the hands of the church - but I think it's more that I have a different way of seeing things,

 

I wanna just give you a big happy hug because your story is very similar to mine. There weren't any people razing fires and telling me I'd burn in hell for leaving. I lost a few friends and went on with my life.

 

The things that appealed to me about christianity - still appeal. In some ways - nothing has changed about me - I just have a different explanation as to why I do what I do. I still want to grow more loving, more compassionate, more caring every day. I still want to fight oppression (politely!) make the world a better place blah de blah, I just realised that I want to do this because its a good thing to do - not because someone told me to.

 

Exactly! Having a great view on life is all about taking the good, positive aspects of any given situation & using them to move yourself forward.

 

I've just realised that there are a whole load of explanations and stories that promote this way more consistently and positively than christianity - and its such a relief not to have to dodge all the nasty stuff in the Bible anymore.

 

But I'm not mad at the Bible either - I just see it as an outline of one thread of mankind trying to make semse of stuff (ok and failing big time in places)

 

I completely concur with this as well. The Bible has many good things to offer, which is why it has such an allure for people. But the sad part is that they don't realize all the bad that comes of it as well.

 

 

As for all the anger flying around here. It's all about pain. Many people have been hurt and for them the best, easiest, or only way the know how to express it at the moment is through just letting those emotions out.

 

And to corroborate what a few people have said or alluded to, the more you're around the more you'll recognize that true vehemence & anger is pointed towards those who are coming in here merely to preach & not to listen. It comes down to this: if you show respect you get respect.

 

There are a few Christians who hang out here (Big Toe, Totally at Peace, etc.) that are wonderful people and they get due respect. Those who preach & just throw attitude get the hammer of Thor.

 

So many happy tidings to you,

Glad to have you here & hope you keep spreadin' the love.

 

Erick

[Amethyst]

Not everyone here hates all Christians. A lot of us have had a lot of bad experiences. Some Christians are cool and do deserve to be treated accordingly. Others are not. You'll be able to figure out who is who eventually by their posts. I personally am just tired of the ones who decide that it's their mission in life to shove their religion down my throat. I say live and let live, as long as no harm comes from it.

[Clearview]

I see thoughtless, mixed up, arrogant, mindless, selfish, irritating people on both sides of this apparent divide. I see loving, thoughtful, intelligent, amazing happy people on both sides too.

 

If there have to be sides - I want to be on the side of the ones who see beyond the words or stories people use to explain their take on life to what lies beneath.

 

Is the bad attitude thing part of the deconverting process? I so don't want it to be.

 

There are no "sides", when it comes right down to it. People are people and they will behave as they will, regardless of what they subscribe to.

 

I'm with you in not caring for the bad attitude. The choice is yours.

[Merlinfmct87]

It is reassurring to find others that detest absolutes! I would so not want to leave one set of absolutes for a new set!

 

I've seen many people do that... go from clinging blindly to God to then clinging blindly no NoGod.

 

They are both just as rank and offensive. I salute you for realizing that!

 

I'm really struggling to put this into words

 

It's harder than it looks!

 

- but my deconversion thing has a lot to do with language and explanations that are given to emotions and feelings. I seem to see similarities in thought and patterns of behaviour differently from others.

 

They have a word for that - perceptive.

 

What I'm wanting to escape from is a kind of dogmatic/oppressive/exclusive/unkind way of 'being'. Although this has meant questioning and abandoning my religion - I don't see this way of 'being' as belonging just to the church - I see it all over the place. I had the unfortunate experience today of spending an hour in a coffee shop with a copy of the 'Daily Express' Newspaper and at the end of it wanted to cry at the small mindedness of the politics within it. This paper makes fun of 'born again christians' but still managed to be dogmatic/oppressive/exclusive and unkind about its own set of issues.

 

Yeah, that's something I see a LOT myself... they are just two mirror images of each other too many times. No one sees the truth in the middle of the two extremes.

 

I know this has to be a 'journey' of my own - but it is hard to travel solo, and I feel as though I keep coming up against the same things on the 'outside' that I was trying to get away from. (that's not to say I'm not begining to hear that there other voices out there speaking my language ... I am listening ... it's just that this is how I have been feeling ... having a moan I guess!)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Doing things alone is NEVER easy... especially when it looks like there isn't anyone else in the world who agrees with you. I can't speak as to what path spiritually is correct for you, that's not something another person can tell you, you have to decide it for yourelf.

 

However, we do try to provide a sanctuary of sorts and some safe haven to think and ponder openly, as well as have a good time with good people.

 

Come back soon...

 

Merlin

[Alice]

I am constantly amazed by the filters that are in place in all of us - that effect what we actually see and hear around us. I was initially a bit apalled by what seemed like a prevelence of 'bad attitude' but I take your comments about where and why its around.

 

I also think that maybe I saw more of it than is actually there overall - because this has been one of the things I've feared most (the getting all angry and bitter with church/god thing) and when I took my first few tentative steps outside the church the first thing I encountered was a sort of 'all christians are idiots -guess what they believe hahaha' kind of response.

 

I have to admit that there is less of this here (although I didn't see it that way when I first arrived) than on other sites - becuase of it being an ex christian thing I guess.

 

So thank you for your comments and directions.

[Vixentrox]

Welcome to the forums. Everything I wanted to say has already been said.

[Ouroboros]

Broke Free has described me to the tee.  I am sure that I have written some offensive statements but there are like zero people to talk to in my area.  My husband doesn't really want to hear it and right now he is torn, he needs to be left alone about this or my deconversion will hurt and damage my wonderful marriage like, Christianity nearly did.  I have met only 2 non-secular people in the past two months and one I don't see very much at all.  Living in NW,  FL where there is a church on each corner doesn't help either. 

 

This is what I've discovered about "converting" people or "de-converting" them.

 

You can't!

 

Every change has to come from inside. It's our own need and desire that will drive the change. It's based on selfishness.

 

The only thing you and people around can be, are lights and guides. But he has to walk his own path to understanding.

 

Be open minded, and not deny ideas or thoughts he gets. He has to sort it through.

 

In US today, there is a chance that out of 10 people you will meet 7 christians. So it's very hard to find non-believers. I've been very lucky, because two of my business partners are agnostic/non-believers.

 

Somehow freethinkers have to get together in gatherings too, like the religous do.

 

That's why I like this site, it is helping me sorting through thoughts, but sometimes it would be nice to meet some people and have a beer or something...

[Alice]

until very recently I had no idea how different the UK was from the states in religious terms. (or is it only recently that there has been this difference?)

 

Christians are very much in the minority in the UK and evangelical born again types are really rare.

 

One of MY struggles is that I am struggling to leave the christian fold partly because I think I like being in a minority! - I'm struggling to immerse myself in the mainstream because I've enjoyed swimming against the tide.

 

I have a tendency in a debate - to take the side that doesn't have so much support. (I was overwhelmed for a moment then to type - 'Go Jesus!' just to redress the balance slightly :-) )

 

Not that I don't like to be around a few like minded peeps (are there ANY other english people visiting this site?) but I'd rather be with a few - taking on the world.

 

WOW - it sounds much more exciting coming out of the christian closet in the states .....

 

(I am being a tad facetious here - not really wanting to dismiss anyone who is really struggling with such a big life changing step and possible facing broken relationships and some loneliness ... just a bit of reframing ... just musings ...)

[Caretaker]

until very recently I had no idea how different the UK was from the states in religious terms. (or is it only recently that there has been this difference?)

 

Christians are very much in the minority in the UK and evangelical born again types are really rare.

 

One of MY struggles is that I am struggling to leave the christian fold partly because I think I like being in a minority! - I'm struggling to immerse myself in the mainstream because I've enjoyed swimming against the tide.

 

I have a tendency in a debate - to take the side that doesn't have so much support. (I was overwhelmed for a moment then to type - 'Go Jesus!' just to redress the balance slightly :-) )

 

Not that I don't like to be around a few like minded peeps (are there ANY other english people visiting this site?) but I'd rather be with a few - taking on the world.

 

WOW - it sounds much more exciting coming out of the christian closet in the states .....

 

(I am being a tad facetious here - not really wanting to dismiss anyone who is really struggling with such a big life changing step and possible facing broken relationships and some loneliness ... just a bit of reframing ... just musings ...)

Yeah, if you really like being in the minority and a non-Christian, come to Amerika!

[spamandham]

I use this site as my only outlet for my frustrations toward Christians (and other religiosos). In the real world I'm not so judgemental as I am here.

 

Keep in mind that Dave put this site together specifically as a pressure relief valve for those of us undergoing deprogramming, so you're bound to see a lot more vitriol against Christians here than most other places.

 

BTW, I agree that there are only two kinds of people; those who classify people into two groups, and those that don't.