Has Anyone Studied the OT Enemies?

[Guest SerenityNow]

Often, it is said, shamefully even by myself at one time, that the people the Israelites destroyed were evil. Were all them evil like the bible says? I have no clue to look and when I do internet searches I only get the Christian/Jewish perspective. Do we know that all of them were sacrificing their children and therefore deserved no mercy?

 

If anyone has any book recommendations, I'd appreciate them.

[Ouroboros]

Often, it is said, shamefully even by myself at one time, that the people the Israelites destroyed were evil.  Were all them evil like the bible says?  I have no clue to look and when I do internet searches I only get the Christian/Jewish perspective.  Do we know that all of them were sacrificing their children and therefore deserved no mercy?

 

If anyone has any book recommendations, I'd appreciate them.

 

Personally (I have no books about it) I think most of it is bullshit.

 

There used to be some kind of a book or pamphlet about the Jews which claims that Jews sacrifices babies also. And that was one of Hitler’s reasons for the persecutions of the Jews, besides that they “killed Christ”.

 

This rumor has been going of for a very long time, maybe before 0 CE.

 

I believe that the OT just shows the same kind of attitude every country is doing today. Make the enemies look bad.

 

Take the Iraq war for instance. We know Saddam Hussein was bad, but bad wasn't enough for us to go to war, so then we had to proclaim that he was selling WMD to terrorists, and harboring them, and had piles of WMD, and so on, until everyone felt it morally right to go to war.

 

That's probably how it went down in OT too. For the people to have a justifiable cause for attack, the enemies had to be made evil and demonized.

 

This is the same thing that happened to witches that were accused of killing babies etc.

 

Or the urban legends you can get through email sometimes, that they eat aborted fetuses in China, which is totally bull crap. People do this to boost their conviction that abortion is wrong, and they do it with lies.

[Valgeir]

A lot of the bible stories about the Israelites are pure myth anyway.

[Ouroboros]

A lot of the bible stories about the Israelites are pure myth anyway.

 

Yup, so true.

 

For instance there are no records of Moses and the Exodus from Egypt.

 

But of course the Xians claim that Pharao was to ashamed to have it written down.

 

Then it should at least have been some archeological evidence in the dessert. They walked there for 40 years, for Bobs sake!

[Thurisaz]

There used to be some kind of a book or pamphlet about the Jews which claims that Jews sacrifices babies also. And that was one of Hitler’s reasons for the persecutions of the Jews, besides that they “killed Christ”.

 

The infamous "Protocols of the learned elders of Zion". A voluminous forgery, claiming to be a protocol of a secret conference of the Jewish Leaders of the World™, that was written (as far as I know) to push the Russian Czar toward persecuting Jews in his realm. It backfired badly, costing the man delivering the pile of shit his head.

 

I've read them some two years back, shortly after I read Mein Kampf. While there are at least some gems of wisdom in Mein Kampf (I'm serious - some very few things in there are good!), the Protocols are totally worthless, except for use as toilet paper.

[Alice]

Thanks.  More or less I thought that maybe there'd be evidence proving in favor of the other civilizations, I never thought that perhaps they didn't exist.  I was a devote Hovind fan.  Would any one mind helping out here with somethings that I've been misled about?

 

One being that they found Chariot Wheels in the Red Sea.  I've seen claims that they aren't but they do look like it.  If you all have any sites, I'll take them.  Watching National Geographic I'm learning a lot about Egypt and my son loves the head Egyptologist Zawhi Hawass (sp?).  We learned that they never had slaves.  Of course, Christian apologist say that the reason Egypt has no records of slavery is that the Egyptian's wiped out all evidence.

 

I'll humble myself to you all right now and say I am sincerely seeking to unlearn what I have been deceived into believing as truth.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I was raised as a 'six thousand year literalist - everything the Bible says is actually true' home. I sort of listened to years of teaching about how this bit archeology proved that bit of scripture and this bit another. But to be perfectly honest I never really took it in - because I couldn't see the value in worrying about whether something actually happened or not.

 

Rather than approach history as an excercise in disproving things - why not just look at history that interests you.

 

For me - I love a good a story because of what it can teach me through my reactions to the different parts of the tale. I guess that's why I stayed in the church so long. I don't really see truth as being confinded to descriptions of how and when some thing happened.

 

Does it really matter whether or not there are chariot tracks in the red sea (although I suspect not) if they suddenly find them - are you going to reconvert? If they find a cross preserved in aspic (or whatever - I don't know!) with a sign on it saying 'the king of the Jews' are you going to reconvert?

 

Enjoy the freedom of not having to run around trying to find proof anymore!

[Alice]

You don't need to defend yourself anymore!

 

I live in the UK and I guess there are many more churches where no one believes that the Bible is some sort of history book, rather that its a collection of myths and half histories, interesting stories and embarrassingly awful stories. So I've gradually walked away from fundamentalism without facing the ex chrisitian thing - infact I'm no where near ready to call myself an ex christian and feel slightly fradulent even being here at times - but its my journey so I'm setting my own pace.

 

My journey started with my realisation that even if God had written the Bible in long hand with a great big celestial biro the words on the page would still never be 'the word of God' - they could only ever be my understanding of the words on the page - they were doomed for ever to be the words of Liz interpreting the words of God. Because my belief in the 'inerrancy of scripture' crumbled from this starting point, I think it was less painful to me - than it is to some.

 

I still hold fast to the truths I've always loved. That Red sea dividing story is powerful stuff. I love thinking through my responses to the different characters, and seeing what it can teach me - I love thinking through my responses to Star Wars as well though!

 

Let your son come down from the fundamental bit gently ... have fun with the history :-)

[Tyson]

Hans Solo you state my position on this matter. If the stories of the Canaanite conquest is even true (I feel there is some truth in the sense that there were tribal wars to gain control of the land) then it cannot be overlooked that propoganda was used to justify the act(s) which then brings us to today with the current Jewish/Palestinian issue. It goes like this.

 

1. Claim you are chosen of God and he has set aside land for you as yoru inheritance (this despite the fact he sould have easily turned Egypt over to them being the greatest empire at the time IF indeed he was some great god as he is portrayed OR given them land from an abundance of uninhabited land on the globe).

 

2. Come up with some dramatic rescue to establish the might of your god.

 

3. Scandalize the people whose land you desire. Call them evil, perverted, and ungodly or claim they have weapons of mass destruction (evil influence).

 

4. Use your god to justify why they do not deserve to live and then move in on them to wipe them out, this despite the fact that these people are minding their own business and did NOT declare war on you.

 

 

What's interesting is that as god, you go through all of that and the same people you supposedly went through all of that for eventually tells you to stick it up your ass, but as we were told in church, he did it all for love.