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What about Rational Recovery?

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Rational Recovery Homepage

 

 

Sounds Great!

 

I only wish it was available when I needed it back in the 1980’s. It would have been my prefered choice, hands down! Please keep in mind that NA is almost everywhere and not everyone can find access to “Rational Recovery” outside of large urban areas. While I have a great deal of reservations regarding the recovery method used by 12-Step Programs, at least they are there. Nothing is worse than being addicted to hard drugs, not even believing in the supernatural.

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What about Rational Recovery?

Wikipedia article

Rational Recovery Homepage

 

 

Sounds Great!

 

I only wish it was available when I needed it back in the 1980’s. It would have been my prefered choice, hands down! Please keep in mind that NA is almost everywhere and not everyone can find access to “Rational Recovery” outside of large urban areas. While I have a great deal of reservations regarding the recovery method used by 12-Step Programs, at least they are there. Nothing is worse than being addicted to hard drugs, not even believing in the supernatural.

 

I am the type of person who uses all the tools available and keeps what's worth keeping. Recovery from anything is a personal journey, and no program or system works for everyone.

 

Listening to everything everybody has to say on an issue and then creating a personalized program made by ME for ME is what works for ME.

 

Then again, that is my approach. Others may have their own and if it works for them, great.

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I am the type of person who uses all the tools available and keeps what's worth keeping. Recovery from anything is a personal journey, and no program or system works for everyone.

 

Listening to everything everybody has to say on an issue and then creating a personalized program made by ME for ME is what works for ME.

 

Then again, that is my approach. Others may have their own and if it works for them, great.

 

Right on, sister! :woohoo:

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have been attending Al-Anon for a month. I am starting to really, really like it!!! I like hearing peoples stories. Their stories are very tragic. When I hear them I feel like, "Gee compared to them, my life is pretty good." Now I feel like I'm not so alone. I have even started saying the prayer, "God, grant me the Serenity..." I wonder, am I becoming religious again? Is this just another fairy tale that ends up in disillusions? Do people ever get really pissed off at groups like Al-Anon?

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I have been attending Al-Anon for a month. I am starting to really, really like it!!! I like hearing peoples stories. Their stories are very tragic. When I hear them I feel like, "Gee compared to them, my life is pretty good." Now I feel like I'm not so alone. I have even started saying the prayer, "God, grant me the Serenity..." I wonder, am I becoming religious again? Is this just another fairy tale that ends up in disillusions? Do people ever get really pissed off at groups like Al-Anon?

 

Well, once you've heard it all many times over, you may start being bored with it. But in the meantime, you may learn some valuable stuff for life.

 

Remember, it isn't religion because,

 

(1) Nobody is pushing you to commit your life to anything;

(2) you are not asked to evangelize everyone. You are just asked to carry the message by the way you live;

(3) nobody is asking you for money;

(4) you may get a phone call from a concerned friend if you miss meetings, but most times, no one cares. Nobody is going to say that you are going to hell for leaving Al-Anon;

(5) there is no guilt that you have to keep going because someone died for you.

 

As long as you remember to keep what helps and discard the rest, I think you should be OK.

 

As for the prayer, I see it as a self-reminder, because that's all it is. The more you repeat it, the more you will remember that there are things you can change and others you just have to accept. The word God is there because some people need the crutch, but in reality, it is just a mental exercise. That's how I see it anyway.

 

Good luck! I hope you can make a few good friends there.

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Remember, it isn't religion because,

 

(1) Nobody is pushing you to commit your life to anything;

Turning your life over to a higher power isn't committing your life to anything?

 

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

 

(2) you are not asked to evangelize everyone. You are just asked to carry the message by the way you live;

Gee, I've never heard that line in church. This sounds exactly like the way many Christians believe they influence those around them. Which is dumb but that's another point. This certainly doesn't prove it's not a religion.

 

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

 

(3) nobody is asking you for money;

This is a requirement for religion? Sure, it's common but that doesn't make it required. Dress clothes are common as well for religions but they're not part of it. And when my step-brother was in AA, it was not really free. They passed a cup to collect money to pay for their expenses -- and you were "expected" to give something. Seems like church to me.

 

(4) you may get a phone call from a concerned friend if you miss meetings, but most times, no one cares. Nobody is going to say that you are going to hell for leaving Al-Anon;

Hell is a figment of many religions but not all. And some religions are open enough that leaving them isn't really possible. You're always in them so whether or not you practice isn't important. Damnation for apostacy isn't required for religion.

 

(5) there is no guilt that you have to keep going because someone died for you.

When did this start becoming a requirement for religion? You're confusing Christianity for religion.

 

Note: The parts in bold are from the 12-steps. They seem to directly contradict a couple of your points. Which also fail to address other steps which are even more religious. Of the 12-steps I would say all of the following are religious in nature (and that the others have religious connotations as well):

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

 

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

 

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

 

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

 

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

 

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

 

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

 

 

 

Oh, and let's toss in the 12 Traditions of Al-Anon. And see if any of those are religous in nature. Gee, #2 and #6 seem pretty religious to me.

 

2. For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority—a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern.

 

6. Our Al-Anon Family Groups ought never endorse, finance or lend our name to any outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property and prestige divert us from our primary spiritual aim. Although a separate entity, we should always cooperate with Alcoholics Anonymous.

 

And in regards to them collecting money from members, Tradition #7:

7. Every group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions.

It's hard to be self supporting if you're not collecting money from members. Much like churches are self supporting thanks to tithes, dues, donations, etc.

 

The simple fact of the matter is that it operates on religious principles, in a religous manner, and requires members accept their way of things as they only way. To claim that it's not religion is absurd. Such claims don't sit well with reality.

 

Now, if you're getting benefit from this religion... then cool. Have fun. But don't walk around pretending it's not religion.

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You know what? I just Watched Penn & Teller's 'Bullshit!' episode on 12-Steppers, and they convinced me - AA is bullshit. :Doh:

 

On one hand, AA does some good things: group therapy is very beneficial, especially when you're just starting out. And putting an emphasis on self-improvement, and trying to make amends to those you wronged is a good idea as well.

 

On the other hand, 'God as we understand him' is clearly meant to be biblegod. They say, 'Oh no, you can be an agnostic and work the program', but I can tell you 'god' means GOD. And the whole bit about being powerless and wretched sounds too much like xtianity's message of self-loathing.

 

So screw AA - when I was going to meetings, the 12-Steppers freaked out when I told them that my 'higher power' was free will. Well, the power to make my own decisions has kept me sober and happy for almost 14 years, and I haven't been back to AA for 13 of those years. :woohoo:

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Loreana, Thanks. I am going to keep attending because for right now it is therapy.

 

"All Gods Fail"

 

God as I understand him can't be a Biblegod. Biblegod doesn't help people who verbally deny the Dogma "Christians" attribute to him. For example I can't pray to the God (the A.A. God) who universally loves, cares for and helps all of humanity and (according to Christians) have Biblegod (Jesus) as my savior. In order to have Jesus as my savior I have to acknowledge him as Lord of all. This we know is bullshit. However I can pray to the A.A. God and find joy, acceptance, strength and peace of mind.

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"All Gods Fail"

 

God as I understand him can't be a Biblegod. Biblegod doesn't help people who verbally deny the Dogma "Christians" attribute to him. For example I can't pray to the God (the A.A. God) who universally loves, cares for and helps all of humanity and (according to Christians) have Biblegod (Jesus) as my savior. In order to have Jesus as my savior I have to acknowledge him as Lord of all. This we know is bullshit. However I can pray to the A.A. God and find joy, acceptance, strength and peace of mind.

 

That's cool - when it comes to recovery, you gotta go with what works! It's different for everybody - what worked me might not help you at all, and vice versa. And I meant what I said about group therapy; I think it's vital, especially in the beginning. You can get a lot of good support in a group.

 

I was just ranting on a personal level - ignore my big mouth, please. :grin:

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