HuaiDan Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 God is not the creator. God is not a being. God is only the highest ideal. Not assertations, just speculations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crunk Bishop Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 even God as "highest ideal" has problems: http://www.positiveatheism.org/faq/anselm.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snookums Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 no wonder god has problems.... God is within... "Some evidence suggests that children keep their imaginary friends longer but may simply internalize them," http://toddlerstoday.com/articles/4175.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 "Some evidence suggests that children keep their imaginary friends longer but may simply internalize them," http://toddlerstoday.com/articles/4175.php So what... Gov. Jeb Bush (R-FL), has one too: http://thinkprogress.org/2005/09/20/jeb-bush-reveals/ ... his name is Chang... (no, not Wang, Chang...) If he runs for President, will each vote on the ballot count as two for him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. XC Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 even God as "highest ideal" has problems: http://www.positiveatheism.org/faq/anselm.htm Anselm's Ontological argument goes like this: 1. God is the greatest thing that can be conceived. (Axiom) 2. If God did not exist, something greater than god would exist. (Axiom) 3. But no greater thing than god can be conceived. (Axiom 1, repeated) 4. Because 2 is in contradiction with 1, 2 cannot be true. Therefore, God must exist. If it still doesn't seem to make sense, don't worry. It was probably not meant to. Well, God as "highest ideal" is not a problem, but the "logical proof" of it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Well, God as "highest ideal" is not a problem, but the "logical proof" of it is. Or the argument that "highest ideal" has to "exist". I always come back to the "perfect circle", it exists as a mathematical idea, but does not exist in actuality. The ideal isn't necessarily a reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snookums Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 "Some evidence suggests that children keep their imaginary friends longer but may simply internalize them," http://toddlerstoday.com/articles/4175.php So what... Gov. Jeb Bush (R-FL), has one too: http://thinkprogress.org/2005/09/20/jeb-bush-reveals/ ... his name is Chang... (no, not Wang, Chang...) If he runs for President, will each vote on the ballot count as two for him? Wow......!!!! I just made that up......I didn't think there'd be real live twits who actually stand up in front of a crowd ( or fellow politican's) and admit that. thats is so funny....tamuchly for the link..... hard call about the ballot thou'......maybe he has 'imaginary' voter's as well......(finger's crossed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NobleSavage Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 First Cause. That's all. Not necessarily omnipotent, omniscent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent or even still alive. As for "proofs", I once presented mine on another forum: Homosexuality proves God. 1. If life exists without a Creator, it must have come about through unguided evolution. 2. Under such conditions, that which doesn't promote survival or produce offspring is usually weeded out. 3. Homosexuality doesn't produce offspring (and in our homophobic society, doesn't promote survival very well) 4. Yet homosexuality exists. 5. Ergo God Glory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 The First Cute Argument 1. Everything that is not cute has a cause, except absolute cuteness 2. The universe isn't cute, so it has a cause 3. The cause is the Cute Bunny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuaiDan Posted August 22, 2006 Author Share Posted August 22, 2006 even God as "highest ideal" has problems: http://www.positiveatheism.org/faq/anselm.htm Anselm's Ontological argument goes like this: 1. God is the greatest thing that can be conceived. (Axiom) 2. If God did not exist, something greater than god would exist. (Axiom) 3. But no greater thing than god can be conceived. (Axiom 1, repeated) 4. Because 2 is in contradiction with 1, 2 cannot be true. Therefore, God must exist. If it still doesn't seem to make sense, don't worry. It was probably not meant to. Well, God as "highest ideal" is not a problem, but the "logical proof" of it is. The problem with this proof is the comparing of two different sets of conditions and calling it a contradiction. #1 states my earlier speculation, that god is the highest ideal. In #2, we assume the condition that [god] is null. Therefore anything not null would be greater than god. In #3 we repeat the assertion of #1. THEREFORE, in #4, we are comparing two different sets of conditions (if god exists, if god does not exist), which can not contradict eachother. If God exists and is the highest ideal, then nothing greater can be conceived. If god does not exist, then everything that exists and can be conceived is greater than god. Or the argument that "highest ideal" has to "exist". By exist do you mean in the quantitative(objective) realm of matter and energy? Not necessarily, unless you consider mind to be matter and energy. Something Asimov said in another thread got me thinking. There are things we can not measure that certainly do exist. (Asimov)So? If there were no humans or other sentient beings there wouldn't be math or logic either, that doesn't mean they aren't objective. At one time, we could not measure phenomenon like electricity, but electricity has always existed. He uses the idea to dismiss the postulation that morality does not exist. Simply because we can not quanitify morality can not be used to disprove its existence. I still dismiss the notion of absolute morality, because morality is a homan construct, relative to each human society, its pracitces, its values, its goals, and therefore not the highest ideal. The highest ideal is a metamorality, and is absolute. God is an absolute. Now tell me, do absolutes exist? And don't start talking about vodka! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuaiDan Posted August 24, 2006 Author Share Posted August 24, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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