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Goodbye Jesus

%99 of christians are unhappy and depressed


been borg again

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Ok the %99 number is just a guess.

But you get the point.

I grew up in the ministry, pastors families, missionaries, private school, till I left when I was 25 years old.

Now that I have spent 5+ years observing christianity from the Outside.

I am amazed at how unhappy, miserable, depressed, dysfunctional, mentally sick, christians and its culture is as a whole.

The entire time I was in christianity they convinced us how

miserably unhappy nonchristians are. almost to the point of suicide.

But you know what? its the other way around.

 

As a ex ministry person, I cannot count how many intimate conversations I had with other christians during a counceling session, to discover how miserable and unhappy christians are as a whole, yet they desperatly hide their pain from other christians in the church environment. Guess who suffers the most depression? Its the pastors and their families. And the insane culture of christianity encourages everyone to play the actor, all smiles and how-do-you-dos in church to convince everyone else around them that they feel fine and spiritual, while on the inside they are depressed and giult ridden,confused and LONELY.

about a belief system that has never lived up to its promises.

 

Everyone afraid to let their gaurd down, to be honest with one anothers humanity.

 

Its a a real screwed up culture being around a group of people who demonize their own Humanity.

 

So many years of this and you become really messed up.

 

I rememeber one episode in particualr. A guy went in front of the church, and confessed, WEEPING because of the giult he felt over masturbating.

Which prompted the pastor in a panic to start a new weekly " Mens Bible Study".

 

We met ONCE and everybody, the elders, the leaders,the pastors. all the men, in a rare moment of Honesty..every single one of them confessed to being porn addicts. The giult, and misery was overwelming.

What happened next Ill never forget, that is NOBODY showed up to the next " Mens bible study" and the topic was ignored and never brought up again, like it never happened, and the years went by....

It was a classic case of Denial, Why? Because all the bullshit about " being a new creature in Christ" all the BS that christianity teaches about overcoming the " sinnature" was BS , and every one knew it.

 

All this time the pastors and leaders in their hypocritical style claiming that they were freed " from the bondage of sin" was all a lie.

 

While we knew as soon as the pastor and leaders and about every other male in the church got home after hearing yet another sermon and or testimony of how evil the world is in its "sexual sin"

They all went home themselves, popped in a porn movie , pulled out thier dicks and started wacking off.

 

What a bunch of Bullshit.

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We met ONCE and everybody, the elders, the leaders,the pastors. all the men, in a rare moment of Honesty..every single one of them confessed to being porn addicts. The giult, and misery was overwelming.

What happened next Ill never forget, that is NOBODY showed up to the next " Mens bible study" and the topic was ignored and never brought up again, like it never happened,

 

This does not surprise me at all. The concept of sin was devised to control other people. That is why perfectly normal sexual activity was designated as sinful. What better way to ensure that everyone is under control than to vilify something almost everyone does? When your group members found out that everyone was guilty, they did not know what to do. Who gets to play the role of pompous self-righteous asshole when everyone is honest?

 

As a ex ministry person, I cannot count how many intimate conversations I had with other christians during a counceling session, to discover how miserable and unhappy christians are as a whole, yet they desperatly hide their pain from other christians in the church environment 

 

This is so common and yet most Christian’s refuse to acknowledge it. I was a practicing Mormon for two years. Mormons feel the MUST present a happy face to everyone a church. Mormons must have happy, happy, happy families. Why, because they tell you that if you do everything you are told, then your family will be blessed and life will be happy. To present any other kind of impression to the congregation would be admitting failure on your part. The consequences of this attitude are truly sad. I can remember on a few occasions where I learned that members had physically assaulted family members. And just last week they LOOKED to happy.

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Guest Peyton
They all went home themselves, popped in a porn movie , pulled out thier dicks and started wacking off.

 

What a bunch of Bullshit.

 

:lmao:

 

That is too funny.

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I'd be interested in a scientific study on the psychological effects of various forms of faith/nonfaith. My suspicion is that there is very little correlation between contentment in life and faith over the long haul. But that's just based on my own experience.

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:woohoo:

 

 

Here's to the 1%!!

 

 

 

Tap

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:woohoo:

Here's to the 1%!!

Tap

 

And the best part of the 1% too ;)

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:woohoo:

Here's to the 1%!!

Tap

 

What? Do you know someone in that 1% group or somethin'? :scratch:

 

 

:HaHa:

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Ok the %99 number is just a guess.

But you get the point.

 

If I'd never found out about the madness of US-style christianity, chances are I'd have called you a liar for that. But after learning about the sheer idiocy over there...

 

...damn, how lucky I should be, to live in a country of (mostly) just nominal christians who couldn't care less about their official faith...

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I don't doubt there are miserable Christians though, I've met too many of them to say otherwise. The Christians in my church seem happy, more or less I guess. I know people try to present a happy face but that seems to be a broader social construction than just something come up with by the church. For some bizarre reason, the ritually expected answer to "How are you doing" is something along the lines of "quite dandy really...". When somebody breaks down and unloads on us after we've asked that rather innocent question to which everyone is supposed to know the properly innocent answer, we are taken aback. Partially I think, within and without the Church, this has to do with the rather obvious fact that if we force people to bear with us in our misery then they have every right to expect us to bear with them in their misery, when in fact, with the exception of a very close group of friends and family, we'd rather not. In some cases we find emotional vulnerability to be even a bit more embarassing than public nudity. I sometimes think we'd rather see the person deal with the rather more fascile physical embarassment which is momentary than be confronted with the wounds on a person's soul. I think it has to do something to do with how we control the people to whom we get close and allow to be close to us, and possibly, how much we don't like to be reminded of our own pain. You know, the whole suck-it-up-stiff-upper-lip routine. Then again, some of us, myself included, are just rather selfish bastards and don't want to be bothered.

 

I hide my misery from people all the time; except when I've been exercising and I'm sore, then I want everyone to know about what a good boy I've been and how much I'm suffering for my health-righteousness. Otherwise, my mood doesn't seem to be dependent on anything more than access to donuts and coffee in generous quantities.

 

fwiw

guac.

 

Wow, my spelling was bad...

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I rememeber one episode in particualr. A guy went in front of the church, and confessed, WEEPING because of the giult he felt over masturbating.

Which prompted the pastor in a panic to start a new weekly " Mens Bible Study".

 

We met ONCE  and everybody, the elders, the leaders,the pastors. all the men, in a rare moment of Honesty..every single one of them confessed to being porn addicts.  The giult, and misery was overwelming.

What happened next Ill never forget, that is NOBODY showed up to the next " Mens bible study" and the topic was ignored and never brought up again, like it never happened, and the years went by....

 

Those doofusses! They missed a perfect opportunity to start a porn swap!

 

I can sorta sympathize with the dudes, though. When you get too honest with people, it's sometimes hard to look them in the eye.

Oops, that didn't sound right...crap! I was too honest!

 

I'm leaving now.

:unsure:

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I'd be interested in a scientific study on the psychological effects of various forms of faith/nonfaith.  My suspicion is that there is very little correlation between contentment in life and faith over the long haul.  But that's just based on my own experience.

 

You might want to look at Time Magazine's Jan 17, 2005 cover story "The Science of Happiness." One of the articles says that people of faith generally report being happier and more heathly than those without a faith. And of the faithful, the Protestant Christians received the highest ranking (I think the survey was only in the USA), although the differences were not very large between the various groups.

 

I think this makes sense because I believe the majority of people do not "obsess" over their religious beliefs, and thus the "weekly church experience" provides a net positive benefit in their lives. The support system for the non-faithful is rather limited, excepting this web site. :yellow:

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I know people try to present a happy face but that seems to be a broader social construction than just something come up with by the church. For some bizarre reason, the ritually expected answer to "How are you doing" is something along the lines of "quite dandy really...".  When somebody breaks down and unloads on us after we've asked that rather innocent question to which everyone is supposed to know the properly innocent answer, we are taken aback.

 

I don’t think this is so bad in the more open minded churches (if there is any here in US), but in the Church I came from (totally fundie), you couldn’t say anything negative.

 

I specially remember one Sunday morning, sitting in the coffee shop in the Church, and a friend sat down and asked me how I felt. And that morning I didn’t feel too well, had like a cold coming on or something. But I knew (I knew him well) that telling him the truth would only mean a rebutting response from him, telling me that the we should live and talk in faith, and never talk disbelief.

 

Stupid, huh? You had to pretend to be accepted, what is that?

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I don't doubt there are miserable Christians though, I've met too many of them to say otherwise.  The Christians in my church seem happy, more or less I guess.  I know people try to present a happy face but that seems to be a broader social construction than just something come up with by the church. For some bizarre reason, the ritually expected answer to "How are you doing" is something along the lines of "quite dandy really...".  When somebody breaks down and unloads on us after we've asked that rather innocent question to which everyone is supposed to know the properly innocent answer, we are taken aback.  Partially I think, within and without the Church, this has to do with the rather obvious fact that if we force people to bear with us in our misery then they have every right to expect us to bear with them in their misery, when in fact, with the exception of a very close group of friends and family, we'd rather not.  In some cases we find emotional vulnerability to be even a bit more embarassing than public nudity.  I sometimes think we'd rather see the person deal with the rather more fascile physical embarassment which is momentary than be confronted with the wounds on a person's soul.  I think it has to do something to do with how we control the people to whom we get close and allow to be close to us, and possibly, how much we don't like to be reminded of our own pain.  You know, the whole suck-it-up-stiff-upper-lip routine. Then again, some of us, myself included, are just rather selfish bastards and don't want to be bothered. 

 

I hide my misery from people all the time; except when I've been exercising and I'm sore, then I want everyone to know about what a good boy I've been and how much I'm suffering for my health-righteousness.  Otherwise, my mood doesn't seem to be dependent on anything more than access to donuts and coffee in generous quantities.

 

fwiw

guac.

 

Wow, my spelling was bad...

 

 

Hi Guac,

you make a good point, I think the way church culture is, its set up in a way that it makes it really hard for hurting people to be honest with one another. Because always there is the underyling exspectation to be the christian example to others and to live up to the exspectations. there is an unspoken social - class structure in christian culture.. that is you know you have the people in church who are respected and looked upon as the leaders and examples, the wise men of the church. Too many people value and strive for that position, probably because of ego I dont know.

 

Something that struck me as odd, when I left the church for the first time and started to socialize and make friends with non-christians for the first time in my sheltered life,

is that groups of non beleivers tend to be 100x more honest about things with each other, about things like problems, flaws, weaknessess, and so forth because their is no fear of being condemed or judged .

 

I will tell you most of my friends these days are either homosexual artsy fartsys, pot heads, strippers, or rock musicians, or all 4. and you know what, when we get together to shoot the shit or hit the bong, we all talk about very personal things, we are honest with each other. there is the freedom there to be honest about personal struggles and our humanity .... unlike anything I have ever expereinced in church culture, where they demonize the human condition.

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You might want to look at Time Magazine's Jan 17, 2005 cover story "The Science of Happiness." One of the articles says that people of faith generally report being happier and more heathly than those without a faith. And of the faithful, the Protestant Christians received the highest ranking (I think the survey was only in the USA), although the differences were not very large between the various groups.

 

I think this makes sense because I believe the majority of people do not "obsess" over their religious beliefs, and thus the "weekly church experience" provides a net positive benefit in their lives.  The support system for the non-faithful is rather limited, excepting this web site.  :yellow:

 

yes I think you are right, from my point of view and expsperience their is a huge difference between fundys and people who are more liberal in their theology.

 

I grew up in a culture of obsessed christians who had to define every dot and jot of theology and demonized every individual or denomination who was not obssessed with christianity.

 

On the other hand there is the spiritualy minded christians who are more tolerant liberal and do not become obbsessed in religousocity. In my eyes it is two completely seperate cultures.

My wife for example is a self proclaimed christian, at the same time she is one of the most loving tolerant kind people I know.

Yet she has no interest whatsoever in defining her theology, nor even reading her bible that much. Most fundys would look upon her negatively as being a " baby christian" or "spiritualy underdeveloped" and would even question her salvation just because she doesnt obsess over the faith.

Yet at the same time its an important part of her sef identity and kepps her grounded. From my perspective she is the example of a True Christian because she practices the Golden Rule and Greatest Commandment.... as compared to fundies who violate and dismiss the GoldenRule/ greatest commandment just so they can protect their perverted theology and self righteous legalism

In this respect then I think christianity is a positive thing for her.

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You might want to look at Time Magazine's Jan 17, 2005 cover story "The Science of Happiness." One of the articles says that people of faith generally report being happier and more heathly than those without a faith.

 

I'll try to dig one up the next time I get my hair cut. Did the study normalize for other factors such that a causal relationship can be identified?

 

(i.e., doesn't it seem more likely that poor health and depression would cause loss of faith rather than the other way around?)

 

I have read conflicting psychological studies that suggest we each have a genetically predisposed "zero point" for happiness that we return to on average.

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You might want to look at Time Magazine's Jan 17, 2005 cover story "The Science of Happiness." One of the articles says that people of faith generally report being happier and more heathly than those without a faith. And of the faithful, the Protestant Christians received the highest ranking (I think the survey was only in the USA), although the differences were not very large between the various groups.

 

I think this makes sense because I believe the majority of people do not "obsess" over their religious beliefs, and thus the "weekly church experience" provides a net positive benefit in their lives.  The support system for the non-faithful is rather limited, excepting this web site.  :yellow:

 

I agree with the tenor of some of the replies to this reference to the Time article, i.e. the subjects of the study are REPORTING about themselves. To the extent that religious groups tell their members they are to be happy, those people are likely to claim to a researcher that they are, in fact, happy. However they may feel on the inside. That's my suspicion about the study. The artsy-fartsy types cited above, on the other hand, who dare to reveal their true feelings to each other, may in fact overreport how depressed they feel - maybe they claim they're more depressed than a hypothetical, impartial observer would judge them to be.

 

I think the Greeks invented tragedy for good reason. It's noteworthy that Christianity produced no tragedy - despite Milton's attempt in Samson Agonistes.

 

As an ex-Christian I sometimes feel happy, sometimes feel a lot of pain about existence and loss and all that. I'm glad I at least don't have cognitive dissonance and defrauding myself any more on top of all my other problems!

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Guest Peyton
Those doofusses! They missed a perfect opportunity to start a porn swap!

 

Pastor Mike:- Well, I'll swap you Big Bab's Bare Boobs for your copy of Lesbian Dungeon Mistresses".

 

Elder John:- "I'm not sure, that one retails for $40. I'll tell you what, I'll do you a deal. You can have the film if you promise not to mention the incident with the gherkin."

 

Pastor Mike:- It's a deal!"

 

:lmao:

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Guest Slayer-2004

NOt surprised .

 

Christianity appeals to emotions , not logic . It makes perfect sense that people who are prone to depression and emotional problems are more likely to be conned into christianity . And xianity being the illogical eternal damnation/guilt trip that it is only makes the problem worse rather then solving it .

 

Rather then encouraging people to accept who they are xianity pushes people to attempt an impossible goal of christ like perfection . As they fail they become even more depressed and even more out of touch with the world around them since they are being brainwashed into believing that its "evil" and "sinfull" .

 

All that crap about the holy spook entering you and making you whole/enlightened with gods spiritual wisdom once you accept jeebuz into your life is exactly what it is - crap

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you know my own personal expereince with the common hidden depression in christian culture, And this is probably the most personal event in my life ,( and not to say this is a common experience amoungst christians, I dont know)

is that here I was, a respected member of the church, leading prayer groups, downtown witnessing groups and youth pastoring, playing in the " church band" etc. I did everything I was suppose to do, because I honestly believed everything about it, and wanted nothing more than to have that " personal relationship with Jesus" all the while for about a year period, I was so unhappy, empty & depressed I rememeber too many times I would sit there with a loaded .357 pointed to my head trying to get enough courage to pull the trigger I taped up plastic tarp on the walls, so the mess would be minimal and I just sat their for hours in confusion, giult & depression, and always praying for some spiritual connection.. the only things that made me happy and distracted was yet another event at church.

looking back now I realize the whole reason was Christianity is a cult, and cannot live up to its promises of supernatural transformation and the seperation of the human condition.

praise God I left christianity, cuz I never have been happier and liberated. Who knows how screwed up I would be if I stayed in the church.

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People of faith do not report their true feelings, because their ultimate motive is always to protect God's reputation first, and the reputation of their religion second.  To report depression, sadness, frustration, anger..etc, with their religion or life in general, would be to admit that their god/religion has failed somehow in providing them with the magical inner peace and joy that their religion promises those it seeks to convert.  So they say what they are expected to say.  And much like the Emperor's New Clothes, in which everyone pretended that the Emperor was finely dressed in order to appear intelligent: Christians will often pretend to be happy, all the while thinking that everyone else is genuinely happy in their church and that there is something wrong with them.  But they are too afraid to admit their "failure" in the 'joy and peace' department, because they might be considered "unsaved" or to be "backslidden".

 

 

Thanks Madame

 

You made my post for me.

 

During the last six months of my Christian life, I was crying in the car on the way to chruch. If someone had asked me at church if I was happy, it would have never occured to me to answer anything but, "Yes, of course!"

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thanks for the last few posts that validates my own exsperiences,

The #1 most depressing thing about deconverting is the claim by christians that we were not sincere, or we faked it all, or we were never True Chritsians to begin with... I think many, if not most exchristains who spent so many years in the faith have a real desire and hunger for " The Truth" (whatever that means), which means we would even be so bold as to question our own core beliefs and willing to sacrifice our own self identitys in the desire to know what is true and what is not.

 

Whoo knows, maybe we are the evidence that Predestination is true, that is no matter how sincere we were in wanting to be Christians, we were predestined to go to hell anyways....lol

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