Ouroboros Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Here's a thought for you... Have you ever heard about these events where the preacher is healing people and when the miracles don’t come, he says that there is someone that doesn’t believe in the congregation? So in a group of hundreds, maybe thousands, believing people, you only need a few non-believers to disable the power of the faith. Or take 9/11 as an example. Hundreds of millions of Christians in this country, and yet the claim was that the sin from the homosexuals and the abortions caused the tragedy. Shouldn’t the majority of believers overwhelm any minority of sinners? Doesn’t this contradict Jesus word that you only need faith as the mustard seed to command a mountain? So my stipulation is that Disbelief is a stronger spiritual force than Belief. What’s your take on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgaris Prime Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 It's not supposed to be logical - it's supposed to fool everyone into following blindly. That's where it all goes sour - if their faith is so strong that they can bend the laws of reality around themselves, why does it fall apart because of a few people who aren't fooled? Here's a hint: there was nothing that could fall apart in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted May 27, 2005 Author Share Posted May 27, 2005 Just to add so there's no confusion, I don't personally believe in spiritual powers of faith or no-faith. I think we're just humans and nothing more to it. But I want to challenge the Christians on this site a bit, and see if they've thought about this at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
been borg again Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 well if it only took one bite/ disobediant act from the garden of Eden to send all the future humans to Hell ( even if Adam and Eve repented). I would say your OP brings up another of the endless logical paradoxes of christainity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted May 27, 2005 Author Share Posted May 27, 2005 What was really facinating to me, was that I've been to these healing meetings, and strangely enough, if there's one doubter in the midst, God can't work. Not even with 2000 strongly believing Christians around. Really strange. So doubt is stronger than faith. It's a fact. I challenge Christians to prove me wrong. You only need me to doubt, and you can't even do one miracle with 100,000 Christians behind you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Or take 9/11 as an example. Hundreds of millions of Christians in this country, and yet the claim was that the sin from the homosexuals and the abortions caused the tragedy. Shouldn’t the majority of believers overwhelm any minority of sinners? Yeah, I like that to. What other country in the world is more religious measured by American Christianity than America itself. So then, why are they trying to "take back America!" and why is god judging America for her sins? I will agree on one point. America has a lot of sins and I find the church behind many of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted May 27, 2005 Author Share Posted May 27, 2005 Yep! It does two things. Gets the preacher and God off the hook, and places the blame squarely on the shoulders of the congregation. Pretty much, "your sick or dying because YOU YOU YOU aren't good enough." It's abuse. In the minds of the congregants, God is withholding healing because they aren't good or perfect enough. So they grovel more and more at his feet, trying desperately to be more and more perfect so he will lift the abuse/punishment of their illness (or the illness of a loved one). It's sick and sad because it takes advantage of desperate people. I used to get this image in my head of this demon hovering over me, and God's huge finger coming down weakly... "can't.. push... little.. demon... out... of.. way.. oh well, stay sick". It was a very frustrating feeling to have a god so weak that one tiny little thought of doubt could effectively disable a supposedly all powerful and all knowing god. Maybe the Bible should have said, "if you have faith as a mountain you can move a mustard seed." or "if you have doubt as a mustard seed, then just forget it, you can't be saved." Strange that I never saw this while I was xian... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted May 27, 2005 Author Share Posted May 27, 2005 Christianity consistently reinforces the idea that evil is stronger than good. i don't know why they think heaven is going to be so good. It will only take one tiny sin to dismantle the whole thing. Which brings up another subject, that should be in another thread; can you sin in heaven? or does freewill exist in heaven? Did we have one of these threads already...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted May 27, 2005 Author Share Posted May 27, 2005 Well, Biblical tract record says yes. 1.) Satan and 1/3 of the angels fell from heaven (according to Christian dogma/Bible) due to "sin" and supposedly angels are without freewill and heaven is supposedly perfect. 2.) Humans "sinned" in a perfect garden with a "god" who showed up on a regular basis to walk around and talk to them directly. 3.) Christians still sin on a regular basis even though they have Jesus atoning sacrifice which supposedly destroyed sin's power over humanity AND have the holy spirit dwelling inside them. I honestly do not see how a fourth time would be the charm. You're right, I didn't think of that. So freewill and sin should be expected in Heaven. Would that mean another sacrificing lamb ritual from Jebuz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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