Eponymic Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 I am ruddy well tired of people espousing who patriotic they are & how much they love their country; and then they blindly go along with whatever the government wants to do without questioning it. It's been five years and Osama Bin Laden is still at large. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Wake up people! True patriotism is NOT simply waving the biggest flag and going along with what the government says to do. It's not supporting a war that the president & his cabinet had to lie in order to make happen. True patriotism is questioning the government when it is wrong. It is telling the government its wrong when it's hurting it's own people or other people. It's telling the government to do the right thing at all times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsmoke Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Agreed. Patriotism is holding your own nation's government above all to the ideals and values upon which it was founded. Nationalism is what everyone is confusing it with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snookums Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Nationalism is a religion! Patriotism is the worshipping style of the nationalist. Its all a bit sick making to observe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Paineful Truth Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Nationalism is a religion! What do you suggest? Anarchy? Feudal city-states? The U fucking N? If patriotism is blindly following the government, what is blindly following a political party? Heroic? We've been at war with Islam since 1979, and they've kept coming because they saw then and continue to see us as weak. The problem with our government is us, who put our zealous blind faith into a political orientation (socialism--which is to say Democrats and Republicans), because we can't overcome our government indoctrination any more than fundies can overcome their brain washing in Sunday school. We don't want freedom, we just want the government tit and are surprised when all we get for suckle is the shaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leaf Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 I notice some on here can go overboard..that is anything that appears as religion they are anti..NATIONALISM....come on...give me a break.. As for 911 and the war on Terror ect..I was called up from teh Army Reserve in 2003 to go to Iraq..good thing I never went they sent us home. I for one don't care about the Iraq war it like the Bible made up with many fabrications. Same with Bin Laden and stuff. As for the USA....well I think more and more its becomming a lost cause and honestly i won't defend it."I left the army on a good discharge in 2004" Way too many things I don't support there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japedo Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 According to the Bush-bots, if you support the Constitution you support the 'terreris'. Any distain and you're told to "leave if you don't like it". This country isn't the free country our fathers and grandfathers fought for. Today it's about mimicking what the leaders tell people to say and believe. I believe GW cited the Constitution as just a goddamn piece of paper or something to that effect. Another thing that drives me batty just while you posted this topic about patriotism, Don't you find it annoying how many people have no fucking clue about following flag laws and other basic 'patriotic' issues. Most of these people have tattered, weathered faded flags that are flown all night with no light on them, never taken care of. Their sense of pride ends at showing they have the red/white n blue waving disgracefully. I get into a lot of heated political discussions, when someone pulls that card on me I ask them who their congressmen is, to cite for me the Bill of rights and explain what they mean, who are their state reps.. so on and so forth.. LOL they are some "Patriots" LOL!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Security Edition BoR Get some, pass them out, keep one handy for those interesting political arguments.. kFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eponymic Posted September 14, 2006 Author Share Posted September 14, 2006 We don't want freedom, we just want the government tit and are surprised when all we get for suckle is the shaft. That's the problem with being in a Christian nation. It's a plethora of people who don't want to think for themselves & give up all their power to a mythological figure. So it's no suprise they're giving up all our nations power to a bunch of despots who don't give a damn about the people. For those of us who know that things are screwed up; all we can do is our part to stand our ground & help open up the eyes of those around us. That, or move to Switzerland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuaiDan Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 I'm drunk. And right now I am so fucking hating the USA. I weep for my homeland. Bitter tears ofhatred and resentment, of regret for things I had no control of. I offer a handshake to epo for raising the awareness. In my drunken state, I offer my plea to those american soldiers in iraq, just turn in the weapons to your logistics officer (by no means let the scumbag fundy muslim coward martyr penisheads get their filthyhands on fine american weaponry) and walk away. why even take the slightestrisk of sacrificing the only thing you have, your life, so that some group unbeknownst to you can gain the slightest profit margin?? Walk away. let the muslim fuckheads do whatever they want with that part of the world. let the titans of industry cope with the problem of dwindling energy resources wit their mighty dollars, not your mortal blood. p,ease, let;s take a moral responsible decision and just walk away, save your own lives, take some responsibility. the time has passed swhere wiping out civilian populaces is acceptable, napalm a residential neighborhood? we really can't do things like that anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 What do you suggest? Anarchy? Feudal city-states? The U fucking N? I'm not likely to make any friends in this thread with what I'm about to say... oh well. If I understand what Paineful is saying here then I agree. It is all too easy to sit in our comfortable dwellings and say, "they should not do that." It is all too easy to be critical and be an armchair quarterback. How about some constructive criticism? If we SHOULD NOT do so and so, then what exactly SHOULD we do? What do people suggest as a REPLACEMENT for our currently failing policies? It's just like John Stewart has said. It's the party of bad ideas vs. the party of no ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sage Nabooru Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Patriotism....even then I'm not very patriotic. I'm not one of those people that sees some kind of magical quality about being an American, as though it's some deeply blessed state and that I stand for something vague and beneficient absent from other nationalities, expressed in Americanese (a variant of Christianese) terms like "Born free", "living the American Dream", etc. I'm a die-hard St. Louisan. I'll shop at Dierberg's and Merb's Candies, root for the Cards even when they're having a shitty season and I don't care for sports anyway, and pronounce mostaccioli "muskacholee" for the rest of my life. I'm just not a very good American. I don't think this country has ever shown that it "stands" for anything, besides overwhelming cheapness, international manipulation and policing in the name of personal profit, religious fundamentalism, and destruction of native culture in other parts of the world for the all-important, ever-expanding profit. My country stands for greed, basically, and very unethically. That means every decision made is made on the basis of getting money and keeping it, which more often than not results in a great deal of figurative anal rape for the lower classes and fellatious ass-kissing for the idle rich and well-born. It's why the ecosystem is similarily raped. It would cost the cash-worshipping government too much money to be ecologically good, and they're reaping too many dollars by being destructive. The only way the unskilled can get a job in America is by agreeing to the most pitiful wages and a total absence of healthcare and retirement plans; this is because if they don't then the corporations will hire, without a second thought, a 12-year-old overseas and pay them four cents a month and force them to work overtime without compensation in a stifling factory. "Ethics" about such things is something which simply doesn't exist over here. I'm not saying I think everybody should earn the exact same wages, or that people should be discouraged from earning a lot of money. I think monetary reward for hard work is a wonderful thing. I just disagree with the idea that it's more important for the uppper classes to retain money than it is for the lower classes to build up a salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markkasan Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 I'm drunk. And right now I am so fucking hating the USA. I weep for my homeland. Bitter tears ofhatred and resentment, of regret for things I had no control of. I offer a handshake to epo for raising the awareness. In my drunken state, I offer my plea to those american soldiers in iraq, just turn in the weapons to your logistics officer (by no means let the scumbag fundy muslim coward martyr penisheads get their filthyhands on fine american weaponry) and walk away. why even take the slightestrisk of sacrificing the only thing you have, your life, so that some group unbeknownst to you can gain the slightest profit margin?? Walk away. let the muslim fuckheads do whatever they want with that part of the world. let the titans of industry cope with the problem of dwindling energy resources wit their mighty dollars, not your mortal blood. p,ease, let;s take a moral responsible decision and just walk away, save your own lives, take some responsibility. the time has passed swhere wiping out civilian populaces is acceptable, napalm a residential neighborhood? we really can't do things like that anymore Haha, if this is what you sound like intoxicated, I'd like to read you when you're sober. That paragraph has more sense than all of the fucktards in the Current Events section of CF forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 What do you suggest? Anarchy? Feudal city-states? The U fucking N? I'm not likely to make any friends in this thread with what I'm about to say... oh well. If I understand what Paineful is saying here then I agree. It is all too easy to sit in our comfortable dwellings and say, "they should not do that." It is all too easy to be critical and be an armchair quarterback. How about some constructive criticism? If we SHOULD NOT do so and so, then what exactly SHOULD we do? What do people suggest as a REPLACEMENT for our currently failing policies? It's just like John Stewart has said. It's the party of bad ideas vs. the party of no ideas. Do you really mean to suggest that there was some sort of hand wringing that took place over the decision to invade Iraq? That it really is up to the US to police the world or solve the world's problems? That the US isn't now one of the world's biggest problems? Here's a suggestion of what we should do. We should mind our own business and knock off this empire-building crap that has been going on since Bretton/Woods. I'm sure I'll get the "but they attacked us" response to this. I'll just respond that, even the president has now admitted that there was no connection between Iraq and 911. And do you really think that those attacked us did so because they hate our freedom? Painful was on a self-imposed soap box preaching a red herring, refocusing the issue of US foreign policy on the opinions of the hoople heads who really get no say in the matter(if you're not a fan of Deadwood, you won't get that remark). Patriotism is a stupid concept used by the powerful to get the hoopleheads to back the interests of the powerful, even at the expense of the hooplehead's own interests. They start drilling it into their heads when they make they sign patriotic songs and pledge the flag in 1st grade and they reinforce it through propaganda via the media, public events, and organizations like the military. The US is not the first to do this nor are they unique in this respect. Free thinkers will at least recognize it for what it is. As for me, I respect the philosophy on which the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights were constructed on. I in no means would die for the US or sacrifice anything for its government though. There are things I love in the US; my family, it's nature, etc... There are things I dislike about it, it's education system, its gross populations of disinterested, ethnocentric, uncultured hoopleheads, etc... The US is not one all encompassing entity that I must either love or hate though. Nationalistic patriotism is that which allows governments to compel their young men toward war and to quell decent of their old men. I don't see anything good about this concept. I'll stop ranting now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 True patriotism is questioning the government when it is wrong. It is telling the government its wrong when it's hurting it's own people or other people. It's telling the government to do the right thing at all times. Absolutely. Or, as I like to say it, a patriot is a true friend to his people, his country, and yes, his government. And a true friend doesn't hesitate to tell you when you're clearly wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Haha, if this is what you sound like intoxicated, I'd like to read you when you're sober. That paragraph has more sense than all of the fucktards in the Current Events section of CF forums. Ain't that the truth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeydid Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Yes I agree. True patriotism is not blind. It doesn't substitute flag waving for action. It doesn't turn a blind eye to liberties being stolen. I have a few quotes I like on this topic. “True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” --Clarence Darrow “Those who want the Government to regulate matters of the mind and spirit are like men who are so afraid of being murdered that they commit suicide to avoid assassination.” --Harry S Truman “If there be one principle more deeply rooted than any other in the mind of every American, it is, that we should have nothing to do with conquest” Thomas Jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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