Lutherans On A Plane

[AgnosticBob AtheistPants]

“I am SICK of these motherfucking Lutherans on this motherfucking plane!”

 

Okay, so it worked better for Samuel L. Jackson in “Snakes on a Plane”, but this was MY horrifying experience with something dangerous and disgusting on a plane. I got to sit on a flight from Phoenix, AZ to Burbank, CA in a row with a Lutheran who would NOT shut up for five fucking minutes. Thankfully the whole thing wasn’t about religion…it was more about his life and experiences as a genius in this evil country of ours. Blah. Never mind any of that. I was TRYING to get a little reading done on the flight, but every time the guy shut his mouth and I started to read, he’d come up with another story that we should be phenomenally impressed with. FINALLY, the plane lands, but we’re stuck on the tarmac for 15 to 20 minutes waiting for our gate to clear. He then notices what I’m reading (The End of Faith, by Sam Harris) and goes into his speech on how that seems like something he would read because it strengthens his faith to be able to pick apart their logic in demonizing Christianity. I wanted to just pull a Linda Blair moment right there and spew pea soup all over him. I’m sure it still wouldn’t have shut him up. Of course I just sat and listen to the guy, rolling my eyes at the appropriate points and let him drone on and on with the usual Christian apologetic slop. He was a biology major during his time in college so knew all about “evilution” and that there are no transitional fossils () to support it and that the Cambrian explosion shows that there were no viable life forms on the planet before then and this was when gawd started creating things (about 10,000 years ago ). He explained how he had a falling away during college, did his soul searching, looked into Buddhism, Baha’i, Judaism, etc, etc but finally came back to Christianity. Why? Because here were 11 guys (the apostles) who could have recanted at any time but chose to go to their deaths proclaiming that Jesus rose from the dead. He acted as if they all were martyred. He also claimed that humanity is inherently evil and therefore requires a savior, blah, blah, blah.

 

As I said, I just let him drone on. I’m not very good with verbal debate. I get tongue-tied and have a lot of brain flatulence when I try to debate aloud. Also, I don’t like to get into it when I don’t have sources to back up things I might say. This guy was one of those that seems to remember every little thing they’ve ever read or seen and I didn’t want to be made a fool of just because I don’t have my facts straight.

 

So the first thing I wanted to rail against with this guy was the apostle bullshit. Number one, how much extra-biblical evidence is there that these folks even existed? If we can have serious doubts about the existence of Jesus, how can we not have serious doubts about the existence of his apostles? And if there is evidence that his apostles lived, how can we be so sure Jesus didn’t? If anybody has any information on the apostles that will help me argue this type of point, I’d like to hear it. Did they really exist? How did they die (if we even know)?

 

The second thing I wanted to argue about but didn’t have any sources was the existence of transitional fossils. I rolled my eyes a lot during this part I guess because he kept talking about being willing to accept it if they ever came up with any, but he had never found evidence of a single one and he was sure to check Popular Science for them on a regular basis. So I know there are transitional fossils, but what are some good sources to slap down and say, “Here ya go. You claimed you had an open mind, here’s that evidence you asked for.”?

 

And finally, his shit about the Cambrian explosion. I know I've heard refutations of this before, but does anyone have any sources or comments about the Cambrian explosion, why this is where the largest diversity of lifeforms shows up in the fossil record and how long ago the period was? I looked up a UC Berkeley site that states it's over 490 million years old (not 10,000).

 

Help me be a master debater! Err...umm...a better debater.

[Amethyst]

People like that, I don't bother debating with anymore because they're never going to change their minds, no matter how much evidence you show them. They think they know everything, and no matter what you show them, short of a scroll found in an apostle's tomb verified by the fundiest of Bible scholars saying that Jesus doesn't exist and it was all just a practical joke or something (which will never happen), it wouldn't be enough anyway.

 

I suggest bringing an MP3 player next time you fly so you can put the headphones on and tune out the annoying people if need be.

 

As for practicing debate here, there is the Lion's Den and the Colosseum.

[snookums]

I think yu 'done' good Bob!

its all in that eye roll

 

Tis one of life's.....WHAT IS THE FUCKING POINT...! debating with christians....I mean really!

You'd be better off 'debatin' with your pussycat.

[white_raven23]

Who needs to debate?

 

Did this man strike you as mentally unstable (aside from being a christian know-it-all)? DId you feel as though you life might somehow be in danger if you looked right at him and say. "I really didn't ask, and I really don't care. I'm going to read my book now."

 

If he continues yapping at you, or even if he yaps to your seatmate, but at a decibel that makes all individual pursuits by other passengers in a ten foot radius impossible, you are then perfectly justified in telling him to SHUT UP.

 

Leave self-martyrdom to the religious people. You don't have to sit and suffer. If someone is bugging you on a plane, you are perfectly justified talking to the stewardess, and requesting a seat change. Even "full" flights have a cancellation or two. And the stewardess would be happy to just move you, (maybe even let you use her own seat for the duration of the flight, and have you return to your assigned seat for landing.....it's unlikely she will be using it that much anyway) than try to tell a yapper in mid-air to be quiet on your behalf.

[Leaf]

I get this all the time.Was on a bus with Jehovah Witness's last month..They were talking to me about the Bible..ect...Wanted to give me the bible tract ect..I told them plain and simple.."Look I have been there seen it done it got the free T-shirt" I'm not interested 1 bit so please lets not waste each others time with your agenda. I've also used this before on other denominations..I don't do this in a harsh manner but a firm manner.

No need to argue!!! There are billions of Christians..I don't care to decovert them..I tell them that and I tell them now and I say now I don't try to deconvert you do I? They say no..They I say then please don't try to convert me...Thanks you...