10 Easy Steps To Save The World...by Samharris

[Legion]

America die first, and then we'll see if there's a real problem.

What do you have to say about this Snookums? What QT has said here seems to me to be a nice summary of your position on things. Please tell me that he's wrong and that you really don't feel this way.

[woodsmoke]

To me civil liberties are negotiable.

 

Though I don't understand the attitude that supports this position and vehemently disagree with it, I get the feeling you could have just said this in the first place and saved us all a lot of time.

[AgnosticBob AtheistPants]

My answer.....would be to fixed up the radical Christian Fundamentalists that the US has and exports across the globe...first & for most. Then you can start on the other extremist. The phsyical threat to the entire population of the US is not emminent. Especially if you believe the US's own 'intelligence'...surely that kind of panic needs to die down. Armaggettin sick of it! People don't think well in that emotional state. But perhaps that's a good reason to keep up the heat.?

 

I’ve got to agree with QT on this. Pacifism is most definitely not the answer. Of course neither is fascism, but it’s impossible to find that sweet spot in between that would please everyone. I am far from a politically savvy person and I’m really far behind on current world events, so I’m not in much of a position to offer anything more than my own uninformed opinion here.

 

I think sams comment 'the dogma of multiculturalism'.....smells of fasicism but I'm not sure etiher. At least it suggests returning to an old style of 'nationism'. Whatever...I don't like it.

 

 

You see ..I disgree with sam and other's.......I don't think the 'fascists' can ever be thought of as sensible! Clever, sneaky...but never sensible. There are other solutions if people are prepared to look outside the box.

 

Again, I repeat my opinion on this from my last post…I seriously doubt Sam is promoting fascism but believes it is pathetic that the only ones who seem even remotely sensible regarding what to do about the situation are fascists. That’s not saying that he agrees with what the fascists want to do. It’s saying that it’s a sad state of affairs when their position is the most viable one out there.

 

I also don't .....with the biggest leap of logic......blame the entire 'culture' of the arab world for the the problems caused by a few redneck islamists and for whatever reason. Islam only a part of the culture.

Reasons for the 'hate'? There is more to this story than that....it goes back a few decades......perhaps back to the british occupation of the middleeast...who really cares if people immediately decide on one cause....ie. multiculturalism...or their culture. Surely ....! I'm starting to harbour a dislike for the US..for goodness sake its not that hard.

 

I can’t say that NO ONE is blaming the entire Arab culture for what’s going on with Al Qaeda and the other radical Islamic factions, but again, I think you’re reading too much into Sam’s article. He doesn’t want to eradicate Arabs. He wants a more firm stance taken on ending the bloodshed caused by these religious extremists. Ovens not necessary.

 

I think it would be great to 'accept' the differences in all cultures....and stop trying to changing the world into one great big MacDonalds shopping MALL. I guess I get bored easily.

 

Well, like I said before, I’m not sure exactly what he means by “dogma of multiculturalism” but based on what I’ve read in “The End of Faith” so far, I don’t believe Sam wants a global “McDonald’s Culture” either. Again, it’s only my opinion on his opinion.

 

 

When you say...'it has to be put down'.......that to me...is the exactly 'primitive' response that Islam is being accused of. So yeah.....my dark sarcasm stands....you wanna be the one to set up the 'ovens'.? Because ya know how difficult it is to force people to change their beliefs ..their god.

 

Okay, I thought it might have been a bad choice of words when I wrote it. Anyway, what I believe should be “put down” is not people, but a belief system. I’m pretty sure that’s what Sam intends as well. How is that belief system going to be put down? Who the hell knows? I certainly have no acceptable solutions. Because even if you DID stoke up the ovens and throw all the fundamentalists in, you’d never get them all and those left would have all the more passion for their faith because, as we all know, faith thrives on persecution. And I’m not suggesting that I would ever want to stoke the ovens!

 

There are better.....more civilised solutions than to exterminate an entire culture. I don't think that's fucking PATHETIC.....................how much guts would it take to push a button. Fuckall it seems.

Oh well ..to each their own.

 

I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but again, I don’t believe Sam is suggesting that all Arabs be eliminated. But who knows, maybe I’m wrong. However, you just don’t seem to be getting what exactly I’m saying IS fucking pathetic. It’s pathetic that the only one’s that want to deal with the situation in an effective (although still unacceptable) manner are FASCISTS. No one is saying the political views of fascists are CORRECT all of a sudden. It is PATHETIC that their views on how to deal with this situation happen to be the MOST sensible of all those currently on the table. That doesn’t mean take their solution and run with it. It just means it’s PATHETIC!

 

I not entirely clear about what sam means when he says 'morally superior'....perhaps a better writer would have made their thoughts clearer...*shrugs* The article appears in an newspaper so go figure. Nevertheless it is a value jugdment.....putting one religous group on top of the other...as well as offering 'respect' to one groups and not the other.

No doubt in my mind about that. But that's his progative.

 

I agree that he could have made his thoughts clearer, but yes, it’s a newspaper article. He’s got to write on a third grade reading level AND he has to keep it under a certain number of words.

 

That said, here’s my two cents on it.

 

You said in your original post (though it seems you’ve edited it out) that you thought it was funny how people who had thrown religion on the scrap heap still showed respect to certain religious tenets or something to that effect (in regard to your opinion of Sam’s decision that Israel held the moral high ground in their current war with the Hamas and Hezbollah). I’m glad you decided to delete that because if you are an ex-christian, it certainly seemed the pot calling the kettle black to me. Morality is NOT the sole domain of religion. They’d like the world to think so, but it is just not the case. I’d like to go into great detail on this subject, but I’ll save it for another post. Whatever your experience with prior or current faith, suffice it to say that it seems you are relegating morality to religion. Thus you were doing precisely what you accused Sam of when he claimed Israel held the moral high ground.

 

Let’s remove religion from the equation by restating a few of the pertinent facts of this war using non-religious terms. Forget about the reasons behind the war for the moment. We have simply army A and army B. Army A abides by the rules of the Geneva Convention. Army B does not. Army A goes out of its way to protect civilians when it is at all possible. Army B uses civilians as shields to protect itself from army A, taking advantage of the fact that army A wants to protect civilians.

 

Given this situation, which army has the moral advantage? Sure, this is boiling things down to a completely basic level, but that’s all Sam was saying in his article. At the most basic of levels Israel’s position in the war is morally superior to that of Hezbollah. It has nothing at all to do with respect for them as a religious icon. Hezbollah fight their wars like terrorists. They put other lives in jeopardy to protect their own and to paint the enemy as murderers if they attack despite the human shields. From a completely NON-RELIGIOUS viewpoint, Israel holds the moral high ground.

[AgnosticBob AtheistPants]

And there's nothing I could ever do to defend this president. I remember around the time of "Mission accomplished," he was thumping his chest about Cuba and Venezuala . . . calling them state sponsors of terrorism and child-prostitute traffickers. I don't even think Barbara believed him that time -- and that's why I can't stand Bush. We could be facing a real, deadly, threat -- and the world wouldn't believe it until they see mushroom clouds over Manhattan.

 

Sad...a real life case of the Bush that cried wolf.