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Planting The Seed


Ramen666
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I am an athesist full blooded and my former church is still decieve as ever. It is non denomenational church in California. The church ironically is all white people and one black guy in the whole church.

 

Occasionally my parents get in church mood and go to church. I just go along, I almost laugh because I honestly can't take it seriousally since I became an athesist. However when that time comes that I have to go to church I came up with an idea.

 

I got a whole bunch of verses on my computer of god ordering brutal killings. What I want to do is is print some stuff out. And at the top put " Is God Really Good?" Then have the verses below it. That's all it would be a tease something that Christians don't know. I would have the papers and put them in the bathroom then people will find it.

 

Or does anyone have any better ideas for this. Please I need input.

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Ramen, would something like that be in your own best interest? Sure, it would be a great practical joke, of sorts, but if you should be found out, it could be a big-time embarassment to your parents. Not to mention that it probably wouldn't have much of an effect on the fundies anyway. IMO, I wouldn't play that way. It's more productive to live by example, i.e. that an atheist is a good, moral, honest citizen just like an xian is supposed to be...just no gods to get in the way of living.

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I actually don't agree with you. What are we really being productive complaining about Christianity with each other and some Christians that come here? At least we can do something about it. Plant the seed with someone. Christians are so closed minded like everyone says here. Why not play it by there game for once. I am not going to let Christianity control the U.S. This is just one small step almost like one person at a time. I am a good moral person but if I "have" to go to church in the first place and I can at least do something productive. Listen I am am being bombarded with these lies everyday and its in the news everywhere.

 

I am just saying leave an pamplet or something and just walk out when no one is there. Someone will be bound to find it. Who knows they may become an athesist. It is almost like going to a Christian forum but it is at the church instead.

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I don't really like the idea of planting seeds. The seeds are already out there for those willing to listen. I mean you can just tell people to go on youtube or something. They will find plenty. But for me I don't like the idea of throwing out my "truth" to people or attempt to deconvert people. Christians did that to me, I have no desire to do it to others. But when someone sincerly wants to learn, then I will teach.

 

Oh and Ramen. Trust me, if you did this, prepare to hear a sermon on it next sunday :)

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Oh and I'd like to add something else. In your process of planting seeds you might in fact strenghten there faith. By putting out phamplets with scriptures people will just say that Satan is using someone to take them away from christ. Remember the story about Jesus being tempted. If you don't then you will when you pastor brings in up next sunday in the sermon if you do it. In the story satan used biblical passages to try to tempt Jesus to do wrong. This is how your chruch will view it. They in turn will just reject it or say it's out of context and feel stronger for not being tempted by the devil. To them it will just be another trial and tribulation there church just survived and they will praise God more for it. But hey some might think differently and leave. it's a two sided coin

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I actually don't agree with you. What are we really being productive complaining about Christianity with each other and some Christians that come here? At least we can do something about it. Plant the seed with someone. Christians are so closed minded like everyone says here. Why not play it by there game for once. I am not going to let Christianity control the U.S. This is just one small step almost like one person at a time. I am a good moral person but if I "have" to go to church in the first place and I can at least do something productive. Listen I am am being bombarded with these lies everyday and its in the news everywhere.

 

I am just saying leave an pamplet or something and just walk out when no one is there. Someone will be bound to find it. Who knows they may become an athesist. It is almost like going to a Christian forum but it is at the church instead.

I understand where you're coming from...I'd like to deconvert them too, at least those radical ones. But, if they're closed minded, by definition your efforts won't gain much. Look how all these threads, all these discussions, have affected Scott...not at all. He just digs in his heels, recites a few stock verses and apologetic phrases, and if all else fails, ignores the post. He absolutely does not, cannot, will not, listen to any rationale argument.

 

Sure, you could try the anonymous pamphlets, see what happens, or you could try this, if you're feeling bold...after a sermon, during the handshaking and all, you could just say, "I really don't believe any of this stuff, I'm only here because I have to be". Maybe you'll be able to start a discussion or offer an atheist tract then. That may even get you off the hook, too...they won't want you to come back. (But of course, you may get in big trouble back home).:eek:

 

Oh well..."The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous." (H L Mencken)

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Ok it seems we are on the same page now Piprus. I say yes are a group on this board but I feel doing nothing Christianity will just get worse. I know we cannot win the battle against Christianity. Planting the seed is the best we could do. It's obvious but I have felt betrayed by my old church. I felt betrayed by Christianity. Athesism is what hardly has a say in anything. At church who really questions God? Who says anything against the pastor? No one that is why the anymous pathelts or sayings is what can bring attention to someone and it may spread. Yes I hear sermons if your a good person but don't believe in God your going to hell. Its Bull shit. It really is and no one ever does anything about it.

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Ok it seems we are on the same page now Piprus. I say yes are a group on this board but I feel doing nothing Christianity will just get worse. I know we cannot win the battle against Christianity. Planting the seed is the best we could do. It's obvious but I have felt betrayed by my old church. I felt betrayed by Christianity. Athesism is what hardly has a say in anything. At church who really questions God? Who says anything against the pastor? No one that is why the anymous pathelts or sayings is what can bring attention to someone and it may spread. Yes I hear sermons if your a good person but don't believe in God your going to hell. Its Bull shit. It really is and no one ever does anything about it.

 

Oh yeah, I hear you...been there myself. You sound like you're in the pissed off phase. That will pass, you'll get more mellow, where you'll be able to just shake your head and grin at all those fundies with their silly superstitions. I'm kind of an old dude myself, and I've been an infidel a long time. Just imagine how good it felt when you first knew you were an atheist, that all that stuff you were taught was just myth, there's no devil lurking around, and that you never again had to fear any hell and final judgement. Enjoy your freedom...

 

And, uh, if you decide to through with putting out those pamplets...good luck :wicked:

 

"Every sensible man, every honest man, must hold the Christian sect in horror." (Voltaire)

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Or does anyone have any better ideas for this. Please I need input.

 

I do think there is merit in challenging their sense of entitlement. If you can get a Christian to back themselves into a corner of essentially a dominionist position, then I think you have all kinds of leverage to use their own American sensiblities to reason with them. Most Christians in churches like these are on the fence between wanting a Theocracy and being very pro American pluralistic. They simply dont know those two views have very different implications.

 

Explore your rights with in that church. Can you teach Sunday School, talk in one of the services, sponsor a dicussion like on a Tuesday night, etc. Christians feel entitled to not be excluded from anyone elses domain so this I think will often lead some to feel quite uneasy--this may allow some to explore their feelings of uneasiness. Leave it at that. You do have a legitimate in at this church since your parents go there, thus your family bond gives you some license to probe without being considered just an interloper.

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Well, I'll add my two cents. First: Leaving those pamplets won't make anyone at all become an atheist overnight. If they did they would become an atheist for emotional reasons rather than rational ones. Atheism's biggest strength is that it is grounded in logic not feelings. Second: You might make them decide to take more of the bible literally. Do you want to be responsible for some Christian getting fired up and killing someone??? Third: If you really want to make them think, don't use bible quotes. Use quotes from the founding fathers about freedom of religion and the seperation of Church and State. Stick them in hymnals or whatever. Educating someone is better than badgering someone.

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Ramen,

 

I know where you are coming from because I have been there too. But I would think twice about doing it. You may cause a whole mess of trouble for yourself and for your parents if you do. One church that I know of has a set of "relational committments" that each member must swear to follow and sign. Some of the committments say that if you do or say anything that is in contridiction to their beliefs that you will be thrown out of the church, other churchs will be contacted and warned about you and the whole church membership told to treat you as a non-christian. If your church is anything like that I don't think you would want to put yourself or your parents through it especially by doing something on church property. They will liken that to a personal attack and believe me won't appreciate it.

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I have another idea - spawned by the flurry of conservative xtian, anti-muslim glurge that's been running around lately. The overall assumption behind this tripe is that xtainity is inherently good, and the muslims are out to kill everyone.

 

So title your piece something like, "Are these really the views of Muslim extremists?" Then don't cite where the quotes came from until the end of the piece, or in footnotes. That way, readers can feel all holy and shit, until they get to the point. (Xtians aren't likely to recognize quotes from the bible until you tell them they're quotes from the bible.)

 

On the other hand, they'll probably just rationalize the whole thing away at that point. After all, we're living in a society where torture and xtian values are apparently compatible concepts... As long as the targets are "bad people"....

 

On yet the other hand (it's wonderful to be a scientist - you get to have lots of hands), as the rest of the group here says, it probably wouldn't have the desired effect. It is intellectually tempting, though.

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