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Goodbye Jesus

Future Of Religion


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Now I voted. As stated, I think religion will fade away with time for the first question. I guess I'm thinking mostly of Christianity. I know too little about the other religions to make intelligent comments on them.

 

For the second question, I don't think religions will either benefit mankind or be the end of mankind. I think if anyone had been going to "pull the trigger" they would have done so already. I've lived through too many tense moments to think otherwise. The means to destroy the entire planet with a push of the button has existed too long and it has not happened yet. So I don't think it will happen. The powerful decision-makers of our day grew up with the knowledge that this power exists. They know what it's like to feel small and vulnerable with such a power in the possession of others. Thus, they would have developed their values around that knowledge. They would realize very well what destruction of the planet means. I think the greatest danger of it happening existed with the generation of its invention.

 

The only kind of person I can imagine doing it is the powerful charismatic maniacal personality who is willing not only to sacrifice all his cult members, but also his personal life and belongings, for spiritual gains in the afterlife. This person would have to be charismatic enough and intelligent enough to get voted into the position of power that allows him to pull the trigger. This means he would have to appeal to the masses, among whom would be a significant portion who do not subscribe to his religion. He would have to somehow have the ability to instill trust in them. In addition, his disregard for his personal life would have to be sufficiently strong to be willing to sacrifice his own life and personal possessions to go through with pulling the trigger on himself and the rest of the planet.

 

QUESTION: Has human history yet produced a person who would have the capacity to do all of these things?

 

So far as I know, most cult leaders manage to escape after killing their members. Or they fail to gain the trust of large numbers of people because of their whacky beliefs. War lords of yore have heroically sacrificed life and limb for their land, but they expected to go down in history with glory. And they did. They are remembered a thousand years later with thrilling tales of courage and daring. The man who pulls the trigger on the planet will not expect this.

 

Back to the poll of this thread. For the second question I voted "neither of the above." I think religion will fade away and that nobody will really notice, and that life will go on like usual--whatever that will be by that time. I think it might take a fairly long time. We know how drastically Western life has changed in the past five hundred years. I cannot begin to predict what it will be like in another five hundred years, let alone a thousand.

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  • Super Moderator

Religion does change, but too slowly. To me, any religion is indicative of outmoded and superstitious thinking. Historically, major religions have impeded progress and enlightenment. Until humans evolve past the need for the supernatural we will have religion bogging us down.

 

- Chris

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Religion does change, but too slowly. To me, any religion is indicative of outmoded and superstitious thinking. Historically, major religions have impeded progress and enlightenment. Until humans evolve past the need for the supernatural we will have religion bogging us down.

 

- Chris

 

My philosophy is to hell with religion. This is my life and I'm living it!

 

To be sure, I have to live within the parameters set by others and in heavily religious areas like we live in that includes religious influences. But within those parameters there is a certain amount of freedom not to be had so long as I submitted to the direct rule of religion. If that is what you mean by "religion bogging us down," then I submit that you're right. This will be with us for so long as you and I walk this planet. And much longer but we won't have to put up with it any more when we're gone.

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Guest eejay

Religion is not going to disappear in my lifetime, though I certainly would like to see that happen. Unfortunately, I think there will always be some fruitcakes who will hold onto superstitious beliefs for centuries to come. As our knowledge and scientific evidence improves it is likely there will be more people who will become freethinkers like ourselves, but it will take quite a few generations before there really is a significant difference.

Of course I'm upset about the radical nature of both Islam and X-tianty. And I do fear this activity is going to escalate on both sides. How far it actually goes, I can't say, but there is definately going to be a lot more bloodshed on both sides before things get any better. Whether this causes a total annihilation of humanity, I kind of doubt it, but who knows. There have always been religious wars. I think there will always be disharmony on this planet and though religion cause much of it, I have a hard time to believe there would be 100% peace even without it.

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There have always been religious wars. I think there will always be disharmony on this planet and though religion cause much of it, I have a hard time to believe there would be 100% peace even without it.

 

At last! someone who thinks like me on this. There's just too many things to fight about--or maybe humans are too hard-wired to fight--to think that a cessation of religion would solve all problems. All we need to start a fight is a contraversial statement on here by exChristians about exChristians.

 

Let the fireworks begin.

 

Did that raise your blood pressure?

 

Relax. That was an intentionally provokative statement to make a point. Everybody here's good people.

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Even though mankind has done truly horrible things in the past, and is susceptable to all sorts of delusion, truth eventually will prevail I believe.

 

Look at how we scoff at those that "worshipped the sun" and thought the earth was flat.

 

Time and evolution, I think will cause all humans to stop believing in nonsense.

 

BUT... It will take a VERY long time imo.

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Even though mankind has done truly horrible things in the past, and is susceptable to all sorts of delusion, truth eventually will prevail I believe.

 

Look at how we scoff at those that "worshipped the sun" and thought the earth was flat.

 

Time and evolution, I think will cause all humans to stop believing in nonsense.

 

BUT... It will take a VERY long time imo.

 

I disagree. It will morph into some other 4th dimensional belief.

 

Hell, it's happening today. We have all kinds of people who believe in "energies" that can't be measured, tested or sensed in any practical manner but the numbers of people who claim that there is another dimension to our existance seems as strong as ever.

 

Let's be clear... I'm talking about people for whom organized religion and the *common* sense of "God" is not traditional. They are not monotheistic or religous but they have faith.

 

What is in common... is that people believe they can tap into a higher power to influence their personal lives.

 

Just walk into a health food store or naturopathic dispensary and start admiring one of the many crystals on display... then patiently wait for the inevitable sales patter about how they will heal your ills and other bunk.

 

As to religion versus science... if religion can't beat science, religion will join science. As evidence I present American discourse on science for the last 20 years.

 

There will always be flakes...

There will always be liberal religion...

There will always be fundamentalism...

 

What each of these looks like changes each century.

 

The only thing we can make some reasonable prediction about is what aspects of current religion will pass away.

 

Well...

 

Essentially anything that offends people enough to deter attendance to church( --> closes their wallets)

 

The obsession with abortion will die once they realize they can't win and people get tired about it. This will morph into similar logic for current stands on divorce. (don't like it but it happens)

 

Hatred towards gays will pass as they realize that being anti-gay hurts their popularity just as being pro-slavery did. Acceptance of gays will come after a general reinterpretation of the bible. All the future fundys will look back and say that was "not real xtianity like today". ("today" being the future) I wish I could live another 100 years to smack their smarmy faces with this post. They'll also look back and claim that they didn't really "hate" gays but that xtians of old (today) just didn't know how to deal with them "as Jesus would". (Picture me sticking finger down throat)

 

Mongo

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I just finished reading Joseph Campbell's book of essays called "Myths To Live By". He pratically predicted the orthodox backlash from Christians and Muslims that has flared up in the past few years, stemming from the decay of their antiquated philosophies to explain human life in light of the moon landing.

 

The Heavens used to be up there, and many cultures either deified the moon, or held it as the home of deities. But, as images from the moon showed, Earth looks like one of the greatest Heavenly objects in the Lunar sky, but that does not make it any closer to Heaven.

 

Today's religions, by and large, have a tribal compontent to them, which was great for keeping tribe unity when the world population was disconnected from each other. But that tribalism, seen most bitterly in the Orthodox branches of modern religion, are not good bases to build philosophies and religions that need to address global issues, address all people, and not just a chosen few.

 

What we see now is the last few century gasps of old world views that can not change to satisfy a new world view, one that acknowledges that we are all equal passengers on Spaceship Earth.

 

Religions stuck in tribalism will die off, but not without a fight and lots of needless bloodshed.

 

Religions that embrace a diverse population will grow over time, surplant the current orthodoxy, and become the new status quo. And they will work for a while, until a new world view becomes too strong to ignore (perhaps if space aliens are proven real and contactable, for example).

 

I see current religion going through a Red Giant stage, where it will balloon far larger than it has energy to sustain itself, then defate over time, in a few generations, to white swarf status, with a few hardcore followers, but irrelevent to real human interaction.

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While I agree with many people here, I'd like to point out an amusing point all of you seemed to have glossed over - religion doesn't evolve. Opinions about religion evolve. Religion is the antithesis of change. Change is heresy in religion.

 

The Bible arguably hasn't changed for a few hundred years now (although, I guess you can say we've added a few more versions of it since then) but the way it gets interpretted does. In the Dark Ages, the bible was taken so literally, that people decided to execute witches and heretics in the inquisition. Nowadays, while the text itself is unchanged, we instead argue about whether the world was "really created in seven days" but understand that instructions on beating slaves isn't appropriate behaviour. The text of Jesus instructing how to beat a slave is still there - just like it was 1000 years ago - we just choose to gloss over it.

 

---

 

My personal opinion? I think the major three monothesitic religions, and Hinduism aren't going anywhere. You combine all four of them, and you have a group of about 4.1 billion people. That's two-thirds of the planet. There is no possible way that you can change the minds and offspring of 4.1 billion people even within a timeframe like a millenium.

 

Will science ever triumph over religion? No -- because people have an absurd need for a "complete" answer. And religion hands it to them, no matter how ignorant or wrong that message may be.

 

While I don't see the human race ending in my lifetime, I have serious doubts that we'll be here in 1000 years. At our current rate of consumption, we'll have tapped the planet dry long before then.

 

I have to disagree with you here: religions absolutely evolve. They change along with the culture, or they die. The core theology may not change much, but the malleability of everything else about it, from interpretations of sacred writings to the emphasis placed on some doctrines, while deemphasizing others, is the only way religions can remain viable. Take, as only one example, the Biblical commandment to stone to death those who violate certain laws. When is the last time you've seen a stoning? At the same time, Christian fundamentalists claim to follow every word of the Bible as the inerrant Word of God. Historically, there was a time when people were actually stoned to death for these violations, but Western society itself evolved past that particular barbaric custom, and even though the direct commandment of God to stone violators is still present for all to see in the scriptures, religion itself had to also evolve to keep pace, and stonings have ceased. That means that theologians and religious leaders are perfectly willing to disobey God to preserve their power and authority over their flocks, while pretending to believe and follow doctrines that they have actually dropped. They simply don't have the balls to admit that their religion has evolved, and to remove those commandments from their holy book.

 

I submit that the Christianity of today bears little resemblance to the Christianity of ancient Rome, where believers were willing to be torn aprt by lions to prove their sincerity.

 

 

Rob

 

 

Rob

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One of the biggest changes to a single religion is in Judaism.

 

They went from a Preist led temple and sacrifice system, to a teacher led (rabbi) congregational system.

 

Big changes to the core, otherwise they would have died out as a religion in 70 AD when the Romans destroyed the Temple.

 

So, yeah, religions change, or die out. Just as countries do, as cultures do, as any organization does.

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  • 3 weeks later...

When I joined the Mormon church in the late 90s, and early 2000s. 3/4 or so of the growth of our ward, were from the young college age, who are quickly turned off to the Jr High like mentality of young Single Adults (as our ward was called). There were members from the Family wards, but mostly from converts, who quickly leave. Including myself. It's similar to how people join online forums and leave. So the LDS church isn't growing. They quickly leave the church, once the fellowship they precieve from missionaries disappear.

 

This trend erodes church membership. that Stake growths shrink, or are negative in parts of the world. usually as with Christianity in the 3rd world, we see growth in the church. But Mormonism is most time consuming. 4 hour meetings on Sunday, temple trips are taking their toll..

 

I'm glad that this shrinking trend is not just limited to the LDS church, but other faiths as well, even Islam. Where people are apostlesizing on line.

 

6 Dioceses closed down in 2005 with the Catholics. Humanists must continue to make documentaries and dramas that show the faiths for what they really are. For me, it was Magdeline sisters that was the straw that broke the camel's back.

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Does anybody remember the old saw about the only two infinites that exist in the universe?

 

Human stupidity and the existence of God, that is.

 

I am a major pessimist and I don't see ANY of other faiths exiting from the mainstream in my life time. Despite what scant rationalism exists within each respective faith, the majority will still be dominated by blowhards and those with powerful delusions of grandeur.

 

Of course, the universe could destroy us on a whim, so I'm really not that worried.

 

Now, for the optimism.

 

I really think, despite the facts and errors in my judgments about faith and religion, there will always be this spiritual component to the nature of humanity. I think humankind might be tracking toward a universal, one-world religion down the line. If all the major faiths are eroding that badly, then we could see a kind of church that will spring up that will allow any believer to be in there no matter their status or being in this life. An example might be Unitarian Universalism or the North Texas Church of Freethought. I think more people will engage in spiritual journeys that are unique for them and them alone. I think the disorganization of religion may be what will really happen in the future. If the individual is allowed to remain a viable aspect of human life, then I can the see the future of modern religion as being more optimistic than my initial comments made above.

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  • 8 months later...

I am intrigued after reading the results.

 

Religion will fade away? Why would this happen? Its been around since we've been around and as science and technology advance, the theories of religion adapt and/or evolve from the new revelations concerning the universe. I am curious, what would make somebody think it will fade away?? Thanks in advance for your answer, very interesting poll and I am intrigued by the results. Good to see diversity of opinions though, I do like that.

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With the sentiments that they shouldn't protect the planet because their "real home" is in heaven, I do believe that religion will bring about the end of mankind. The earth can only support us for so long.

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  • 5 weeks later...

It will be the end of the planet. It is only a matter of time before punch/counterpunch with nuclear weapons. It will be a religious war no matter how much the media spins it.

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Look up the term "Secularization Thesis." Ever since the 19th century, the great minds all believed that religion would eventually fade away as society became more modern, scientific, rational, and intelligently organized. Nietzsche said "God is dead. We Europeans killed him." He wasn't saying outright that God never existed, but rather that Europeans had moved on.

 

Well, the secularization thesis got discredited in the social sciences/humanities by the time Ronnie Reagan left office. The rise of the religious right, fundamentalism, evangelicism in America caught everyone by surprise. Also, in the 1950s and 1960s people had faith in modernization sweeping the globe, with giant Western-built tractors transforming Africa into a modern breadbasket and peasants working in modern factories just like people in America and Europe. That was largely a bust. And now, in much of the Third World, religious nuttiness has emerged and with a vengeance. In the 60s and 70s the thought of some batshit motherfuckers like Hamas taking over Palestine was unthinkable, and Afghanistan was a gleaming beacon of modernist promise (the Soviets fucked it up, and then...) compared to the medieval shit-hole it is today.

 

Things aren't exactly all uber-secular in Europe, either. They're nothing like us, but they do have their share of fundies. It's just that their fundies are less politically active and obnoxious, it's more like "you don't fuck with us, we don't fuck with you." In every Catholic country you have a contingent of hardcore Catholics who take the shit seriously, and even in the northern countries you'll have your hardcore sects that are grimly marching on. The most secular/atheistic countries tend to be in the former East Bloc (i.e. Czech Republic), with the exception of Poland, which I've heard called "European in Name Only." When I was in the Balkans I heard their version of a Polish joke. "Q. When's the best time to fuck a Polish girl? A. Any time she's not at Mass!!!" :lmao: Also, religion is institutionalized throughout most of Europe, even in countries like Denmark, to a degree that would actually shock/surprise many Americans, such as compulsory religious education conducted by state churches (e.g. the Lutherans in Denmark) in public schools.

 

Religion was supposed to have evaporated by the 1970s according to some of the ivory tower's finest minds. It did not.

 

Notice how public education is taking a beating in many places in the West. This may contribute to the persistence of religion. Further, we take for granted that we'll always be progressing from this point on, that things will never decline and regress. Look at how advanced Rome was, and look at how things fell to shit. If we were like Europe in the Dark Ages, Europe/Mediterranean under the height of Rome would be like the colonization of the solar system. We could be faced with some heavy Mad Max shit several generations down the line, and religious kookiness would come back with a vengeance.

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Guest QuidEstCaritas?

Science is dynamic and represents the best of the rational dynamic psyche.

 

Religion is static and represents the stale, deteriorating psyche.

 

 

Use it or loose it.

 

I am sticking with The Method and primitive but deeply fulfilling emotional experiences via Naturalism.

 

The Method gives my consciousness access to a dynamic, fluid, and changing psyche. That's because The Method is based in a system of epistomological thought, formulation, and testing that allows the human mind to ask more questions in a rational way and get more answers. Science is healing amputees, resurrecting the dead, restoring sight to the blind, and healing people's minds and hearts. Superior in every sense of the word.

 

 

I think a 19th century philosopher said it best -I can't remember his name:

 

"The Priests used to say that God could move mountains and nobody believed them. Scientists say that dynamite can move mountains and nobody doubts them."

 

Conclusion:

 

Science works.

 

 

 

In my opinion, religion evolved into science in bits and pieces. Once religion phases out we will continue to try and "evolve" out of the goldfish pond we are in (to use an analogy by Michio Kaku). Religion evolved into Science and Science will evolve into something more useful and superior than what we have now. This will happen as we gain access to more dimensions technologically and our race evolves and our consciousness expands. Then once we evolve into the thing ahead of Science, we will evolve into the thing beyond that as we gain access to even more dimensions of reality and multiple universes. Religion was necessary at some point in our human evolution, now we are evolving away from it. For me this is part of the Big Picture.

 

Religion was the first way to raise human consciousness. Science is the second way. We will evolve into the Third Way and eventually into a Fourth Way and beyond as we gain access to the multi-verse. Humans need to do this because we need to survive. That's what religion was about when it first started and that is what Science is about now. Religion is no longer dynamic because we as a race have collectively (for the most part) made it stale through our species evolution, and thus it is being phased out.

 

This analysis is probably analogically right on the money.

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Religion was the first way to raise human consciousness. Science is the second way. We will evolve into the Third Way and eventually into a Fourth Way and beyond as we gain access to the multi-verse. Humans need to do this because we need to survive. That's what religion was about when it first started and that is what Science is about now. Religion is no longer dynamic because we as a race have collectively (for the most part) made it stale through our species evolution, and thus it is being phased out.

 

This analysis is probably analogically right on the money.

 

I dunno man, I think metaphysical teleologies like that one went out with Marx and Hegel.

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Guest QuidEstCaritas?
Religion was the first way to raise human consciousness. Science is the second way. We will evolve into the Third Way and eventually into a Fourth Way and beyond as we gain access to the multi-verse. Humans need to do this because we need to survive. That's what religion was about when it first started and that is what Science is about now. Religion is no longer dynamic because we as a race have collectively (for the most part) made it stale through our species evolution, and thus it is being phased out.

 

This analysis is probably analogically right on the money.

 

I dunno man, I think metaphysical teleologies like that one went out with Marx and Hegel.

 

 

I dunno man, I wish you could explain how anything I just wrote is a metaphysical teleology.

 

It's just an analysis.

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