Fear Of Hell (sound Familiar?)

[Guest anii]

Hi, Newb here.

 

I am one of those who still fears hell. Even though I left (at least physically) the fundamentalist church 10 years ago, I still believe in God and I still believe Jesus is the Christ. Everything else is negotiable. However, if I say I believe in God and Christ, then that would mean I'd have to believe that I was actually saved from *something* by the sacrifice.

 

What I'd come to believe is that hell is separation from God. Period. Not a place so to speak, but eternal alienation from the Beloved. In my experience, permanent separation from a human loved one is pretty damn hellacious. So this would be the same, only worse.

 

I recently found an online article by a Christian that says the word "hell" isn't even in the original text of the Bible. I've been reading that and if it can convince me, then it will provide an immense relief.

 

I'm a sensitive soul who needs emotional intimacy and connection... so the idea of eternal separation from the Beloved has kept me in spiritual... um... bondage? for a very long time. I really want to be released from this chain of fear.

 

If anyone has other solidly logical perspectives on this, I'd love to read them.

 

Oh, and here's the link to the article I mentioned: http://www.tentmaker.org/books/GatesOfHell.html

 

Cheers,

 

Anne

[riverbank]

Yeah, after I deconverted, and indeed whilst I was in the process of deconverting, I had a terrible fear of hell. But I'm glad you found this forum, and what I would suggest is to read the posts by like-minded ex-Christians, and that should certainly help lessen your fear of hell. It did for me anyhow!

 

Wishing you all the best

 

Andy

[mwc]

First of all, welcome aboard.

 

Second, I don't know if I can offer a logical view of things. I don't believe in the myth anymore but I'll see what I can do. I quickly skimmed the article and from the bits I read I would agree with it.

 

Hell is not in the bible. It is not a Jewish concept. It is taken from Hel, the frozen underworld of the Scandanvians (so Hel really is frozen over). The xian hell is a number of concepts rolled together and repackaged. However, to support the claims of the author on the site you cited, here is another translation (Young's Literal Translation) "46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'" As you can see there is no eternal damnation here either.

 

Don't just take my word for it. You can check this yourself by going to an online bible like www.crosswalk.com or www.biblegateway.com and choosing a non-KJV translation to search for the word hell. You won't find it. I suggest going to www.crosswalk.com and using a reference version so you can click on the words and see what they mean. If you use the KJV and click the word hell you can see they usually translated the word Hades in it's place. This is a good way to check the various translations. You'll find the KJV is familiar but unreliable. Try the NRSV for something a little better and easier to read (it's not perfect though...no one version is). For the OT use a Jewish translation since they get it closer than any xian translation available. Understanding the Jewish point of view, especially on hell, will really help you I think. There's a (long) thread in this same forum titled something like "Is hell fair?" Skeptic of Bible posts, near the end, some links to a Jewish forum about this (if I recall correctly) that should help.

 

mwc

[All Gods Fail]

Hiya, anii. Welcome!

 

What really killed the fear of hell for me was when I realized the bible itself was simply full of crap.

 

How can be afraid of something people made up? It's like not believing in Santa, but being afraid of the Krampus.

[KT45]

Hi, Newb here.

 

I am one of those who still fears hell. Oh, and here's the link to the article I mentioned: http://www.tentmaker.org/books/GatesOfHell.html

 

Cheers,

 

Anne

Hey Anne, if you are still a christian then this really isn't the place for you. I'm not trying to kick you out but I feel you will probably relate to other christians better. Go back to tentmaker and participate in the forums. When I was a christian they destroyed all my fears about hell. I've read that article before but actually talking and debating with people will make you learn more and change your views on hell quickly. Here is a link to their web forums.

 

http://www.tentmaker.org/smf/

[sithprincess]

I agree with Taylor on this one. I found that website relatively recently, and they really do have some excellent points! And it makes a lot more sense than eternal torture with no redemptive purposes. The great thing about the Tentmaker site is that they have, IMO, done a wonderful job of sticking to the facts. They walk you through all the words translated into "hell" and explain what they really mean, where they originated, and all that good stuff. Even for non-christians, it's an interesting study.

[philo]

The doctrine of hell is the most difficult doctrine to get out of one's head. Here's my best reason for not believing in hell, posted at my site.

 

Is God Really that Evil?

 

Imagine this for a moment. A serial killer has just entered your home and brutally raped and murdered your spouse and slaughtered your children. There is no doubt that you would desire vengeance and justice, and if you could have your way with the perpetrator, you might torment him as a punishment for his crime. If you cannot relate to this illustration, just think of the most terrible thing that a person could do to you and what you would do to punish that person.

 

Consider this: exactly how, and for how long, would you like to see the perpetrator punished? Would you, for example, want to watch the person who had murdered your spouse flip about and scream for eternity as flames slowly peeled off his skin? How long would you sit and watch? Would you watch two minutes, ten minutes, a week, or every day for eternity? Let’s say you didn’t have to watch but could go about your business while the person was being tormented, and from time to time you could remember this place called hell playing out somewhere else in the universe while you were in heaven. Would that appease your wrath and bring satisfaction to your soul? Of course not, because any rational person would get no continued satisfaction out of watching a person burn in hell forever.

 

 

The Bible says that the evildoers will burn in a lake of everlasting fire. If there is a heaven now, or one that will be created at a future time, we can presume that the inhabitants of heaven and hell will be living together, forever, in the same universe. Call me overly sympathetic and compassionate, but I don’t think that I would enjoy heaven knowing that just over the hills or just beyond the stars there was a place called hell where many of my friends and family members were being tormented. One of the arguments I often hear from Christians is that God will not force a person to go to heaven unless they want to be there. The implication is that if you cannot live with God in the heaven He has created, the choice is yours to stay out. My question would be, if I do not want to live in a place or live with a God that wants to torment people, am I really evil? If I must believe in the concept of hell to be a Christian, and cannot ethically or morally support such a doctrine, am I not justified in refusing to be a Christian?

 

 

If someone were to commit the most unimaginable act of evil against my family or me, at best I would want to see this person dead—and quickly. But more than likely, I would consider the person who had committed the crime against me to be an emotionally sick individual, who for some reason would not have carried out their violence unless they had been suffering from some form of mental instability. So, along with my rage and taste for vengeance against them, I would still recognize that this individual deserved fair treatment, because their mental illness would have caused them to do something they might not have done had they been sane. Perhaps this person was genetically predisposed to commit wrong. Perhaps this person has a mental illness brought on by a poor family environment. Perhaps the ills of society helped mold this person’s character in an adverse way. Whatever the reason, I would still be compassionate towards this individual. The worst thing I could think about doing to this person would be to administer some form of capital punishment. I could do this only if I had determined that this person was so evil and so far beyond help that killing him was the only option. I would not want this person to be tortured, and I certainly would not want to watch him being tormented for eternity. If it were within my power, I would just snap my fingers and he would be gone, and my guess is that you would do the same thing if you were in the same position.

 

 

There is no rational human being or governmental body in the history of mankind that would condone the perpetual torment of hell in the form of everlasting fire. There is not a crime to be committed on this earth that would even call for such an act of revenge. Human nature—even at its worst—would simply not allow such a form of punishment to exist, because we recognize the complexities and circumstances that cause people to commit the gravest of evils. Is there some reason, other than religious tradition, to assume that God is more capable than humans of carrying out such a violent and merciless act?

 

 

Imagine now that you are God. You have created men and women in your image, and you have made it their destiny to know good and evil. You know that evil is a necessary component of the universe, and since you created mankind with the power to choose, you know that you run the risk that some people will fail to do what is right. You have even created a devil and demons to interact with man, knowing full well that their powers are far more advanced than man’s. You have placed man at a disadvantage. On top of this, the curse you have placed upon man has rendered some individuals emotionally and mentally inadequate to comprehend your mysteries. You have even gone underground, denying humanity evidence of your very existence.

 

 

So, how will you treat those individuals who fail your supernatural test? Since you are ultimately responsible for evil, would it be your intent to sadistically torment the people whom you have created when they failed to do the right thing? If you had created a hell for this purpose, if you had felt justified in creating such a place, then it would mean that the degree of mercy and justice you represented was much different than the mercy and justice human beings stand for, because human beings would be much more compassionate and understanding. They would make every attempt at helping an evil person to overcome their ways if there was any hope that person might change. In the worst-case scenario, humans might impose a form of capital punishment. They would end the life of the person inclined towards evil as quickly and painlessly as possible. But this would be the only option available to us, because we do not have the power to heal the human mind that God does. Human beings would also use justice more appropriately. We would administer a punishment to fit the crime. We would consider any form of torment sadistic. Inasmuch as possible, we would ensure that the criminal was fed, clothed, housed, and kept safe. We would go out of our way to provide the professional help necessary to assist the evil person in seeing the error of his ways. Under no circumstances would any human being—except one who was deranged—set people up to fail and then torment them miserably for failing. So, if you were God, I would expect you to be much more compassionate and merciful than even I would be.

 

 

I do not believe in hell or the possibility of going to hell. My lack of belief is not based on my arrogance or my desire to do evil. It is based on my belief that Christian teachings, which promote a God who is full of vengeance and who has created a place called hell, are false teachings. I still hold to the lofty ideal that God is somehow better than I am. As I am merciful, God should be much more merciful. As I am compassionate, God should be infinitely more capable of compassion than me. If in my wildest imagination I could not bear to inflict torment on another human being, no matter how much a person might have wronged me, I certainly would not assume that God is more capable of inflicting everlasting torment on the creatures He supposedly created.