*cackling In Evil Delight*

[woodsmoke]

So I'm in Islamic Civilization this year as my history class. Fascinating stuff. Teacher's from Bengladesh, and it's great being able to get the different perspective on things--though his accent can make things difficult at times. He pronounces Mecca as "MuKAH;" not sure if that's the correct way to pronounce it, but it's certainly interesting.

 

There's also a guy in the class (another student) who seems fairly informed about things, but every time he opens his mouth, no matter what he says, his words just scream "I AM AN IGNORANT REDNECK!"

 

At any rate, we're in class yesterday discussing the week's chapter in our textbook, and Redneck pipes up in his characteristically stupid way, commenting one the apparent "evil" of one of the historical figures we're learning about--making sure to bring the man's proclaimed religion of Islam into it, of course.

 

This has happened several/dozens of times by now, and we're all pretty well sick of him. As soon as he's finished speaking, though, the professor retorts without missing a beat, "Well, let's look at Christianity's most infamous adherent: Hitler!"

 

This, of course, leads to the immediate protestation on Redneck's part that Hitler wasn't a Christian, and through bouts of laughter I and others manage to inform him that he was indeed and remains a member of the Catholic Church to this day. The professor then went on to make the point we've all seen used so many times here, that the man we were learning about may have claimed to be Muslim, but his actions showed otherwise.

 

Despite that I disagreed with that, I just couldn't contradict the professor on such a brilliant verbal riposte.

 

I love college!

[Lizard]

Cool! Gotta love it when its turned around..

[Dark Helmet]

Cassé!

 

[HuaiDan]

But would anyone go so far as to call islam a religion of peace? Other than an ill-informed muslim?

[narcissist]

What? No embarressing humiliation of the professor? No chalk falling on the floor? No godly bully boy pushing the professor of the stage? No proclamation of godly truth that leaves our professor dumbfounded and speechless, whilst the eternal truth of almighty god is glorified for all to see?

 

God must be slowing down these days if those emails I used to get are anything to go by.

[The Paineful Truth]

If I may--

 

I'd just like to point something out. Jesus, however deluded he might have been, attempted to fight true corruption within his own religion, while Muhammed spread his corrupt religion through force, and in doing so garnered the wealth to be even more "sucessful" at it.

 

The Jesus Movement was later co-opted by Paul and subsequent Church fathers whose corruption we learn about in history, but they didn't come along quick enough to surpress the initial message of repentence and adhering to the golden rule as much as I'm sure they'd have liked to. On the other hand, Islam's message of forced proselytization goes all the way back to its originator.

 

The point is that just because some ignorant redneck is ill equipped to attempt to attack Islam based on his equally irrational religion, doesn't mean that "one of the historical figures" being discussed doesn't deserve to be criticized/exposed. I worry that Christians are considered fair game in America to the point of overlooking the equally irrational, and at this point more dangerous, adherents of Islam. In this country, we can turn our backs on Christianity with impunity; but even here, Muslims fear to criticize, much less become apostates, of Islam.

[Fweethawt]

But would anyone go so far as to call islam a religion of peace? Other than an ill-informed muslim?

Yes, as a matter of fact.

 

We have an "ill-informed" President that did that very same thing.

[HuaiDan]

Actually, so did Bono of U2 at a concert I went to. Don't worry Bono, I still like U2.

 

If I may--

 

I'd just like to point something out. Jesus, however deluded he might have been, attempted to fight true corruption within his own religion, while Muhammed spread his corrupt religion through force, and in doing so garnered the wealth to be even more "sucessful" at it.

 

The Jesus Movement was later co-opted by Paul and subsequent Church fathers whose corruption we learn about in history, but they didn't come along quick enough to surpress the initial message of repentence and adhering to the golden rule as much as I'm sure they'd have liked to. On the other hand, Islam's message of forced proselytization goes all the way back to its originator.

 

The point is that just because some ignorant redneck is ill equipped to attempt to attack Islam based on his equally irrational religion, doesn't mean that "one of the historical figures" being discussed doesn't deserve to be criticized/exposed. I worry that Christians are considered fair game in America to the point of overlooking the equally irrational, and at this point more dangerous, adherents of Islam. In this country, we can turn our backs on Christianity with impunity; but even here, Muslims fear to criticize, much less become apostates, of Islam.

 

Why yes you certainly may!!! Brilliantly stated.

 

Islam, religion of peace?

[The Paineful Truth]

But would anyone go so far as to call islam a religion of peace? Other than an ill-informed muslim?

Yes, as a matter of fact.

 

We have an "ill-informed" President that did that very same thing.

 

I don't believe the President's problem is one of being ill-informed. I think rather that he is paying homage to the dark side by being politically correct.

 

Why yes you certainly may!!! Brilliantly stated.

 

Aw, shucks.

[woodsmoke]

Look folks, I'm not defending Islam by any stretch of the imagination. If anything, taking this class and learning about the history of the civilization has only further convinced me of the shortcomings of Islam as both a religion and culture (though there is something to be said for the fact that until the Franks arrived on the scene with the advent of the Crusades, the Ulama was arguably the most diverse and tolerant place in the world).

 

I've had to bite my tongue dozens of times in the course of our discussions out of repsect to the teacher and the others in the class who may not share my beliefs and/or are there to learn about the history and culture of Islamic civilization without getting an unsolicited earful of ignorant/arrogant opinions on the side.

 

That said, this class has opened up my eyes quite a bit to the differences between our cultures and broadened my mind significantly to things I likely never would have learned had I not taken it. I'm there to learn, not to start fights.

 

If Redneck wants to approach the professor, myself or anyone else in the class on his own time to engage in a discussion about the shortcomings of Islam and the differences between it and Christianity, he's free to do so. The same goes for the professor and the other muslims in the class doing the inverse. The thing is, between 11 AM and 12 noon every Monday, Wednesday and Friday every student in that class is paying several hundred dollars to learn about the history of Islamic civilization from its origins in the 7th century to 1450 CE.

 

While discussing the morality of the religion itself and various facets of the culture it's given rise to are interesting and worthy topics, that is not what we're there for, and every time someone tries to drag the topic of discussion back to an unrelated current event or opinion like that they're effectively wasting the money of every student enrolled in the class. As a college student with no car, no job and just enough money to pay one last cell phone bill and hope I can find work before the next one is due, I don't appreciate one person's efforts to derail the class, regarldess of (the nature of) his motivation for doing so.

 

That is why I posted this story, and why I celebrated in the shutting up of this one person who consistently tries to get the professor off on tangents that have no bearing on the course material, thereby wasting everybody's time and money.