Guest copacetic Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Due to the fact that I am relatively new to fundamentalist christianity I am continually shocked and awed at the power that it holds over people. My buddy, recently converted, didn't believe me yesterday when I told him that the gospels contain a couple of contradictions. He asked me to show him a couple of them - So I found a list and printed them for him as well as a couple of reasons why christianity does not work for me. This afternoon he gives me a letter basically telling me that my mind has been overtaken by satan who is trying to confuse me. How does he know this? He prayed and god told him. *sigh* Is that really the best that they can do? A few unanswerable questions and it's satan taking over my mind? Not to mention the fact that there would be no benefit for mr satan to confuse me about christianity because without god there's no devil... If I weren't laughing I'd be crying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Hello, and welcome! That is, sadly, a very typical response of fundies (fundamentalist Christians). They often do not wish to accept that some people have left and that their religion may not be everything they thought it was, so they stick their heads in the sand and pretend otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurari Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Is that really the best that they can do? A few unanswerable questions and it's satan taking over my mind? Unfortunately, yes. Satan is the "easy out" card. Christianity is a feeble religion that's flawed from the foundation up and any amount of rational thought will destroy it. The only answers the apologetics can give is: "You have to have faith" "Satan is tricking you." "We cannot understand God's will." Boring and dissapointing, I know. Welcome to ExC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markkasan Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Satan gets the bad rap on everything. If he's so bad, why did God create him? Recent converts are like that. They refuse to accept any logical evidence you put in front of them. Your friend is temporarily insane. There's no use in arguing with him until he comes to his senses. I suggest you keep off his back about it for a few months, or at least until he calms down.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar Shadow Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Yeah I got that reation form a few people I went to church with when they found out that I had posted flyers in the church for the War on Easter© this is one thing that was said I know Lunar Shadow. He's doing this not to demonstrate reason. He is rebelling against his parents, God and the truth. He is doing this to justify his sinful life. If he says in his heart, not his reasoning, that there is no God he thinks he won't be accountable to God. Satan's greatest victory is getting people to believe he doesn't exist and that God doesn't exist. He is winning in your life Lunar Shadow. Go back and read the book of Joel. Hiding behind atheism won't help you escape your responsibility to God. Don't be like the athiests who die, are all dressed up in their coffins with no where to go, except down! Abandon being a fool. "The fool has said in his heart there is no God." Some of the greatest thinkers in the world are Christians, like your dad. The evidence for God and Christ is enormous. God is seen in His creation, in His answers to prayer, in His Son, in the amazing make-up of your body. While you dishonor Him, He gives you breath, life and smiles at your foolishness. It is my prayer that someday you will quit your rebellion and receive Christ as your Savior. Praying for you. DeanDean L Gossett | 04.20.06 - 1:51 pm And this is the logic and reasoning on the church I grew up in. I wonder why I don't go any more... well I have gone a couple tiems just to Challenge the preacher and leave him dumbfounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosingMyReligion Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 You have to think about it...Christianity is a religion that discourages all common sense and rationality... Goto any church revival or regular service and you will see it in effect. People believe, 100%, what the fool in the pulpit says and if they even think for a second that he might be wrong then it's "satan trying to decieve them..." The religion is a fraud and Satan is the big ace in the hole. When all else fails then it has to be Satan...Even though the same christians will say that Satan has no power and blah, blah, blah.... I hate Christianity. Nothing but a fool's paradise... Welcome to EXC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgnosticBob AtheistPants Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 While you dishonor Him, He gives you breath, life and smiles at your foolishness. That same shit-eating evil grin he's gone have as he watches you fry in the "Lake O'Fire" right? Fucking asswipe christians. Don't they see the bullshit even as they write it? Well hell no. Neither did I. What ya gonna do? They're the only ones that can change their minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar Shadow Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 yeah its a wonder I ever learned to think isn't it? actually to my fathers credit (even though he is a fundy) He said something to me when I was young and that was "be thurough, don't take people at their word and above all be intellectually honest" well after all he is Professor but I think I ended up where he would last want me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Due to the fact that I am relatively new to fundamentalist christianity I am continually shocked and awed at the power that it holds over people. My buddy, recently converted, didn't believe me yesterday when I told him that the gospels contain a couple of contradictions. He asked me to show him a couple of them - So I found a list and printed them for him as well as a couple of reasons why christianity does not work for me. This afternoon he gives me a letter basically telling me that my mind has been overtaken by satan who is trying to confuse me. How does he know this? He prayed and god told him. *sigh* Is that really the best that they can do? A few unanswerable questions and it's satan taking over my mind? Not to mention the fact that there would be no benefit for mr satan to confuse me about christianity because without god there's no devil... If I weren't laughing I'd be crying. Personally I don't think "biblical contradictions" really do anything to aid in the fight against christianity. I dont' actually think anything aids in the fight against christianity...maintaining rationality is the only thing you can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Thoth-Amon Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Due to the fact that I am relatively new to fundamentalist christianity I am continually shocked and awed at the power that it holds over people. My buddy, recently converted, didn't believe me yesterday when I told him that the gospels contain a couple of contradictions. He asked me to show him a couple of them - So I found a list and printed them for him as well as a couple of reasons why christianity does not work for me. This afternoon he gives me a letter basically telling me that my mind has been overtaken by satan who is trying to confuse me. How does he know this? He prayed and god told him. *sigh* Is that really the best that they can do? A few unanswerable questions and it's satan taking over my mind? Not to mention the fact that there would be no benefit for mr satan to confuse me about christianity because without god there's no devil... If I weren't laughing I'd be crying. Typical. I've had similar discussions. Why are they like this? It's called brainwashing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar Shadow Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Personally I don't think "biblical contradictions" really do anything to aid in the fight against christianity. I dont' actually think anything aids in the fight against christianity...maintaining rationality is the only thing you can do. I would tend to agree. In my experiance peopel will say man thats a pretty waek argument in one ear and out the other. but logic and rationality are the key tools and there are mounds of thoes arguments to put forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 I would tend to agree. In my experiance peopel will say man thats a pretty waek argument in one ear and out the other. but logic and rationality are the key tools and there are mounds of thoes arguments to put forth. Biblical contradiction however doesn't really argue against Christianity being false, though, so I tend to avoid those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Don't you know? No one has the ability to think for themselves. All thoughts are placed in your head by one of two sources, in the age-old battle for souls. Like the old Bob Dylan song - "You can serve the devil, or you can serve the Lord, but you're gonna have to serve somebody".. Poor little fundy thumper. Hope they don't take decades to wake up, like some of us did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Satan gets the bad rap on everything. If he's so bad, why did God create him? Yes - and one should ask the fundies who refer to "Satan's Tricks" why didn't their god do away with Satan, seeing how dangerous he supposedly is? Xians never have a remotely rational answer for that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Freethinka Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 For me, I simply don't talk about religion with others. There is just no point. You aren't going to convince them- they just make things up to support their illogical beliefs. Only when they really, truly question their beliefs will they then begin to see the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NobleSavage Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Satan gets the bad rap on everything. If he's so bad, why did God create him? Are you kidding? Satan is the most useful character ever created by any religion. Any time theologians find themselves in a quandry, Satan flies in like a superhero with a cape to save the day. Far from being the bad guy, he's often the true savior of Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosingMyReligion Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Satan is definitely Christianity's Deux ex Machina...He always conveniently swoops in when the plot thickens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markkasan Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Satan gets the bad rap on everything. If he's so bad, why did God create him? Are you kidding? Satan is the most useful character ever created by any religion. Any time theologians find themselves in a quandry, Satan flies in like a superhero with a cape to save the day. Far from being the bad guy, he's often the true savior of Christianity. Haha, true, true. I was reading in Everything You Know is Wrong that the dichotomy between good and evil wasn't even around until the Zorastorans invented it. Even the Hebrews didn't believe that Satan was a malevolent, independent force that was out to get you if you strayed too far. To them, Satan was God's agent whose job was to lay obstacles for people to learn from their experiances. The Hebrews didn't believe any of this "original sin" crap; they felt that God would not have placed the Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden in the first place if he had not intended for Adam and Eve to eat from it. The serpent was just God's inside man. Modern Jews (correct me if I am incorrect) think the same thing, even after the Holocaust had basically cauterized them out of Europe. But when the peculiar Jewish cult known as Christianity took power in Rome, the leaders found it very convenient to blame catastrophes on Satan and the victim. House burn down? You must have been coveting your neighbor's wife. Did your children get raped? Oh, you must have raised them the wrong way. With this, the leaders of the time could say that Gawd was all-good, and that you deserved what you got, or that Satan was just making things shitty for you. Thus the status quo was upheld. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrior_of_god Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 I love Battlstar Galactica (the new one). The Humans try looking for god, the Cylons think he spaeks to them and they both try and figure it out. As for the devel and fear I believe the preist human-form Cylon stated it best: "Religion and fear go hand in hand, fear is religions most useful tool, for control." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest copacetic Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 What I find so insane about the whole thing is that my friend keeps on harping on about how he is thinking for himself for the first time in his life and how he finally is free. It's such unbelievable and blatant backwards talk. It's just hard for me, I suppose, to watch him throw his entire life away to something that's not true and I hate the fact that my only worth in his eyes is that of a potential fellow christian - It's sickening to have seen him change in under a month from an interesting, open minded sort of guy into a close minded robot who now only values worth in how much credit he is obtaining with the lord via what seems to be simply a lot of pointless bowing, scraping and worshipping. He is not a stupid person by any stretch of the imagination; just not an intensely deep thinker and I honestly don't think he has the capability to clamber out of the hole that his church and faith are happily digging for him. It fucking sucks. It's laughable - from "James, the lord has written upon my heart that you are going to be a great christian" to "James, the devil is confusing your mind with false information". The advice I've gotten from almost everyone about this situation is just be friends with him but I'm getting to the point where I don't really see the purpose; It's like continuing your weekly chess games with a friend who was badly brain damaged in a car accident - It seems the right thing to do but what's the point really? The main reason I have come to this site I guess is that I'm hoping to discover some magical catalyst that will strip away the blinkers from their eyes. Of course, I've realised that there is no such thing... Oh well. I'm going to watch a Kent Hovind seminar (lent to me by my room-mate's VERY christian father). It's always good for a laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithprincess Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 That "Satan is confusing you" bit was a BIG struggle for me while deconverting. Every time I doubted, I thought "But that's just what the devil wants. This is how he works." Really, it's a miracle to some extent that any of us here ever got out of it with that being drilled into our heads. Just think how effective that is - blaming every logical thought we have on an enemy who wants to drag us to hell (and why exactly would he want us anyway? I never got that. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Satan is a smokescreen. He's a blindfold that Xians put over their eyes when they don't want to see what's right in front of them. It's a lousy excuse for not listening, for ignoring reality, and it's insulting - I mean to tell someone that they're deluded by supernatural evil beings? What the fuck kind of thing is *that* to say?? It's basically a Xian equivalent of closing one's eyes, putting one's fingers in one's ears, and going, "LALALALALA I'M NOT LISTENING TO YOU!! YOU CAN'T THREATEN MY WORLDVIEW WITH REALITY!! LALALA!!" My first inclination is usually to smack someone upside the head when they do that, but that's sadly counterproductive. I haven't figured out anything better yet though. (Although rubber bands and spitwads are far more legal than head smacking.) I dunno what to suggest, really. I mean part of the painful thing about Xianity is that it can become so much more important than the people you love and care for. It sucks ass to be rejected by someone you love because apparently you don't fit into their doctrinal box anymore, and they think you're a threat, albeit subconsciously. Religious paranoia bites the moose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramen666 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Satan confusing you? Yep I heard that one before many times at church actually. When the sermon was on doubting God. The pastor said " Doubting is the ultimate sin and it's Satan trying to lure you on his side. We all doubt at least once, have faith....." Now come on Satan needs to exsist to make Christianity work. Like sin has to exsist for Christianity to work. Without those "tools" There is no way to keep religion going why? The way the Bible makes sin, it is impossible not to sin. From action to thought, you can still can sin. Having Satan is what makes if you doubt, you are going on the darkside. Now let's play Christian for the moment, God created everything, God knows everything (past. present and fututre) He allows Satan to roam free in the wild. Now let's say Christianity is true and we have fallen and going to hell now because Satan lured us. The thing is God knows we would be lured to the dark side and he did nothing to stop it? God will have the evil grin on his face when we fry in hell....since he already knew. So what is the point of religion? What is the point of the Bible? If God already knows then we are screwed anyway...Also God knows how "stupid" humans are why would he test us? These are all questions that are unanswered. Heck this is just Christianity's belief system. Also what about Jews? Are they screwed because they don't believe in Jesus? Satan is decieving them from Jesus. Heck they wrote the Torah in the first place why should they be screwed? That's what Christians believe. Satan= tool God= tool religion= power to control a mass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithprincess Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Satan is a smokescreen. He's a blindfold that Xians put over their eyes when they don't want to see what's right in front of them. My first inclination is usually to smack someone upside the head when they do that, but that's sadly counterproductive. I haven't figured out anything better yet though. (Although rubber bands and spitwads are far more legal than head smacking.) Head smacking is immeasurably more satisfying though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Head smacking is immeasurably more satisfying though. Indeed. Headbutting is even better but generally too painful without liberal pre-violence applications of Guinness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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