brad_religion Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 So often, I hear Christians telling me that they are truly “pro-life” on the issue of abortion. They condemn the practice (some make exceptions like the life of the mother or rape or incest), and they try to compare it to the holocaust or slavery. However, such comparisons are pale and unequal for a number of reasons. Christians will attempt to use the bible to prove abortion is wrong, and give a few scattered bible verses (which have nothing to do with abortion). The reality is that the bible, from cover to cover, does not only NOT condemn the practice of abortion, it condones forced abortion and countless other methods of death and destruction. So, one could say the bible only condones abortion when a woman is FORCED to have one. For anyone to say such things are not true either means they are lying intentionally or they simply have never read the bible. In order to be pro-life and not be a hypocrite, I will only accept certain behaviors and actions on the part of every pro-life person to verify if they are actually pro-life or a hypocrite. A “true” pro-life person will: Allow any pregnant woman into their home, free of charge. Pay for any medical services used to support the health of the “unborn person”. Pay all the woman’s bills (including car payments, credit cards, bank loans, etc) When the child is born, they must continue to allow the woman and child to stay in their home free of charge. If they are not willing to let the woman to stay with them after the child is born, then they have no right to bitch about her receiving welfare from the government in order to support her child. They must be willing to support paying for the child until the child is of legal age (18). They cannot oppose gay adoption (which saves the lives of these potentially aborted "unborn persons") They cannot expect to be paid back for anything they give to the woman. If a person who is pro-life will not do such things, then by all standards, they are simply hypocrites pretending to care about a cause they are not willing to help. Yet, these same individuals will compare their “pro-life” issue with the holocaust and/or slavery. There is just one major difference. If these pro-life people don’t lift a finger to help the cause or do those actions I listed above, that would be tantamount to being an “Aryan” German who refuses to help a Jew seeking refuge from their nazi persecutors. It is also like a person who refuses to help a slave escape to freedom. Believe me, there are plenty of these shallow hypocrites among the ranks of Christianity. Should we be surprised about this type of hypocrisy? Not really. That is because it is almost a universal truth, that each theist will worship a god that is just like them. I have noticed this several places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknowing1 Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Good post and so true. Have a person at work who is pro-life, they collect money to "educate" women on options other than abortion but once they deliver the help stops. The message, we'll support you until you have the baby but we won't be there for you the rest of the time. My opinion is that if you are pro-life you should be looking at helping once that child is born. The 9 months, labor and delivery aren't the hardest part, it's what comes after that is. So where are those folks at now? They are doing outreach to increase their membership. Doing fellowship within their social groups at church and raising money to build huge buildings. They sure as heck aren't out in the community helping fix the mess they started. Don't get me wrong I'm not pro abortion just pro choice. I think everyone has the right to decide what is best for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT45 Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Don't get me wrong I'm not pro abortion just pro choice. I think everyone has the right to decide what is best for them. What does pro abortion mean? Does it mean you rather people get abortions or that you are more for abortion than giving birth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurari Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 What does pro abortion mean? Does it mean you rather people get abortions or that you are more for abortion than giving birth? It means you support the idea that women should get abortions rather than giving birth. I lean towards that idea because I see far too many stupid parents, but I am far more adamant about keeping the government OUT of the deicion entirely except for enforcing good medical care. So I'm pro-choice. People who actually call themselves "Pro-Abortionists" are about as scary as pro-lifers (yes, they are real, they are rare, but I've met them!). They crow the praises of government enforced abortions and child limits like in China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT45 Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 It means you support the idea that women should get abortions rather than giving birth. I lean towards that idea because I see far too many stupid parents, but I am far more adamant about keeping the government OUT of the deicion entirely except for enforcing good medical care. So I'm pro-choice. Then what the hell am I? Usually when I see people say "I'm pro-choice but not pro-abortion" they usually mean that women have a right to choose but don't feel abortion is morally right or should be avoided. I don't think abortions are morally wrong and I don't have a problem with people getting them. I don't think abortion is wrong period. But I don't think people should get abortions over having children and I especially don't want the government involved. I guess it's like this pro-abortion - abortion is the correct moral choice to do Pro-life - abortion is an immoral choice and shouldn't happen period Pro-choice but not pro-abortion - You have a right to choose but abortion is still immoral and shouldn't be advocated Me - abortion is amoral. Having a child is amoral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknowing1 Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 It means you support the idea that women should get abortions rather than giving birth. I lean towards that idea because I see far too many stupid parents, but I am far more adamant about keeping the government OUT of the deicion entirely except for enforcing good medical care. So I'm pro-choice. Then what the hell am I? Usually when I see people say "I'm pro-choice but not pro-abortion" they usually mean that women have a right to choose but don't feel abortion is morally right or should be avoided. I don't think abortions are morally wrong and I don't have a problem with people getting them. I don't think abortion is wrong period. But I don't think people should get abortions over having children and I especially don't want the government involved. I guess it's like this pro-abortion - abortion is the correct moral choice to do Pro-life - abortion is an immoral choice and shouldn't happen period Pro-choice but not pro-abortion - You have a right to choose but abortion is still immoral and shouldn't be advocated Me - abortion is amoral. Having a child is amoral. My personal opinion I am not against abortion nor am I against life. I think I have no right to tell someone else what to do and whichever route they take is ok by me and therefore I am pro choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
08 hawk Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Christians say they're pro-life AND pro-war. That's sort of an oxymoron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknowing1 Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Christians say they're pro-life AND pro-war. That's sort of an oxymoron. Yeah, what's up with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-COG Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Christians say they're pro-life AND pro-war. That's sort of an oxymoron. When I was a Christian, I was pro-life/anti-abortion, but also anti-war and anti-death penalty. I don't think anyone else in my church believed that way, though. Now, I consider myself pro-choice, and that the best way to halt most abortions is through education and birth control, not banning the procedure. A living, breathing human being has more rights than an unborn potential human. (Now that's a statement that will get me into trouble with some people!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorena Rodriguez Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Brad, What a great post! Thank you for putting into words something I've had in the back burner for a long time. It is easy to encourage people to do (or not do) something. It is harder to help them live with their decision. One thing that bothers me greatly is the issue of Fetal Alchohol Syndrome. Many of those children are brought into the world with absolutely no mental tools to take care of themselves. Yet, according to Christians, they must still be born. When they grow up and become prostitutes and drug users, the Christian righties call them lazy or slots and speak against Welfare grants. Bunch of hypocrites! P.S. You may want to send the post as a letter to the editor next time anti-choice issues receive heavy press coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurari Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 What is really quite interesting is the number of "pro-lifers" that capitulate when it's THEIR daughter who's in trouble. I have some friends who work at a Planned Parenthood and their storys about the number of parents/patients saying, "I'm pro-life but..." It's a hell of a clue by four to the head. That's when you find out when you're in a situation like that, it's not about morality, it's about reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 What is really quite interesting is the number of "pro-lifers" that capitulate when it's THEIR daughter who's in trouble. I have some friends who work at a Planned Parenthood and their storys about the number of parents/patients saying, "I'm pro-life but..." It's a hell of a clue by four to the head. That's when you find out when you're in a situation like that, it's not about morality, it's about reality. True, but those are the sane ones, we may call them hypocrites, but the ones that scare me are the ones that try to force their own teenage daughter to have a child. While I was stil a fundy a friend had a woman at work ask her "What if it was your daughter?" She said if my daughter gets pregnant she made her choice, she made her choice when she opened her legs. She said this proudly, I nodded, but inside ... "when she opened her legs" our girls at the time were 5 years old the statement I found and still find so disturbing. With Christianity the way it is right now in the US at least, sometimes I'm really happy most are hypocrites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurari Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 What is really quite interesting is the number of "pro-lifers" that capitulate when it's THEIR daughter who's in trouble. I have some friends who work at a Planned Parenthood and their storys about the number of parents/patients saying, "I'm pro-life but..." It's a hell of a clue by four to the head. That's when you find out when you're in a situation like that, it's not about morality, it's about reality. True, but those are the sane ones, we may call them hypocrites, but the ones that scare me are the ones that try to force their own teenage daughter to have a child. While I was stil a fundy a friend had a woman at work ask her "What if it was your daughter?" She said if my daughter gets pregnant she made her choice, she made her choice when she opened her legs. She said this proudly, I nodded, but inside ... "when she opened her legs" our girls at the time were 5 years old the statement I found and still find so disturbing. With Christianity the way it is right now in the US at least, sometimes I'm really happy most are hypocrites. I have to agree. I know one very tragic story of a co-worker of my mother's who's daughter got pregnant quite young. The doctors warned them that letting her have the child (I think she was 14 or 15) could result in a lot of damage to them both. The parents wouldn't hear of it. They absolutely flat out would NOT let their daughter have an abortion for her own safety. The child was stillborn and the daughter needed an emergency hysterectomy. It was only after that that her parents really understood the depths of what they had done, but of course, they did their best to explain it away as "God's Will." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentLoner Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 What is really quite interesting is the number of "pro-lifers" that capitulate when it's THEIR daughter who's in trouble. I have some friends who work at a Planned Parenthood and their storys about the number of parents/patients saying, "I'm pro-life but..." On that subject, I heard this story from a clinic escort I know. She told me the story that there was this girl who came into the clinic in tears after passing by protestotrs. As she came in she told her: "I don't know why they're yelling at me, they're my people, I'm not like everyone else that comes in here, i just made a mistake." Typical attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrisonjj Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 So often, I hear Christians telling me that they are Even though I am a born again atheist, I do believe that life begins at conception and the destruction of that life except to save the life of the mother is morally wrong. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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