From the other side of the spectrum

[areformedthinker]

Hi, I am the Calvinist who just started the "I agree" thread. I was wondering though what inconsistincies you see with the open-theism posistion, which is that God does not know the future (that was put very simply, and if any open-theist want to correct that or expound on that, it would be appreciated). Would not this answer the "problem" satans innocence and all that? I think they would say God did not know Satan would rebel, and essentially could not stop it. Like I said, an Open-theist would be a better representation for that view then a Calvinist, but what do you think?

[Celsus]

Open theism is not restricted to various segments of Christianity. As a deist, I also hold to a sort of open theism, in that no one can know the future absolutely, not even a deity. Now to address your questions about Satan: The analysis of the evolution of Judaism and Christianity prove to my satisfaction that this is nothing more than an artificially created boogeyman, a means to scare people into conforming. The issue that I have with the Bible and Christianity in particular is that claims are made about God, about God's actions and about other things that are clearly contradictory, mutually eclusive, absurd and are disproven by the sciences (hard and soft versions). So to anwer your question, open theism in a Christian context solves none of the propblems of Christian theology and in fact, I would poist they engender more.

 

Bruce

[Zach]

I was wondering though what inconsistincies you see with the open-theism posistion, which is that God does not know the future.

If God can not know the future, then how can he make the supposed prophecies that are in the Bible?

[Saviourmachine]

I was wondering though what inconsistincies you see with the open-theism posistion, which is that God does not know the future (...).

The 'problem' I see with that is that not only the future is indetermined, but also the present (Heisenberg) and the past. That god can't be used to access the past is more than clear, nobody even tried it. People sometimes 'use' god to predict the future, but I don't know of anybody who asked god to make the past clear to us: to provide video tapes, or sound recordings of Adam & creation, Noah & flood, etc. It would be a nice contemporary addition to our current revelations.

[Guest Son of Belial]

It has been pointed out that God is either omnipotent or omniscient, but NOT both.

 

Now, assuming that God is not omniscient, and cannot see the future, he is still omnipotent, which would let him control everything. No matter how you slice it, he allowed Satan to rebel, even if he did not know ahead of time.

 

But wait! The real problem is, how can a perfect being that does not know what sin IS rebel? God created Satan. The only way Satan could have sinned, lied, or rebelled is if he knew of those concepts and had a desire to perform them. The only way he could have knew of them and desired to commit them is if God planted it in his "mind." God created Satan, so God knew - and created - any of the dark, rebellious thoughts he had.

 

If people are products of their society, then Satan should not have rebelled any more than the other angels, since I would assume angelic society is pretty fair. I don't think he was an outcast or made fun of in school as a child. If people are sometimes just born wacky, and their society is not the full reason that they "lose it," then Satan was CREATED messed up in the head.

 

So again, any way you look at it, it's God that either planned or caused it to happen, knowingly.

[Asimov]

Even if God didn't have the foresight to know what his creations would do, he's still responsible for his charges.

 

Don't get me wrong, but I think it was a lack of education that brought Adam and Eve and Satan to disobey the ol' G man.