My Thoughts On Religion

[willybilly30]

I made this awhile back on my myspace profile and wondered what you all thought about it what do u think?

Thoughts on Religion:

 

 

I been watching a lot of movies now that I got DSL some of them on Jesus Hallucination Christ's profile on myspace and went to yourtube and looked up similar stuff. Let's just simplify it and say I decided to research the criticism of Religion. I thought about are the critics right lets examine some things I thought about.

 

 

 

1. Divine Intervention Does a God answer our prayers and control our lives?

 

The Problem with Prayer

 

Too many perople

 

Ok, lets say there are 1000 christians, 1000 pagans, 1000 buddhists, 1000 jews, 1000 hindus, living on earth. Of course there's a billion more religions than that and certanly more than a thousand in each category. But since my DSL is messed up today and I'm doing this on a wordpad and can't look it up were gonna pretend I got it right. One God is supposingly answering 5000 prayers. Now theirs billions and billions of people on earth, probally half of them believe in devine intervention and some pray in the day and in the night. That means God is listening to prayers 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week, listening to billions and billions of voices and thinking of the answer to each prayer. Poor God has no life and he's been doing it since the beginning of time. God must be going mad by now. Oh don't forget the possibilty a billion other earths might exist. I'm sure some of you will say but god just listens to christians or (insert your religion here) well even that's still a huge task for a being to do cause most likely your religion has a lot of members.

 

 

 

would it of happened anway?

 

Seems like all prayers involve either you doing something or something that was bound to happen enyway looking at what lead to it.

 

A true miracle to me would be something that can't be explained away and say oh well looking at the circumstances it would've happened.

 

Here's an example of it would've happened anway:

 

Seth a christian tried to witness to me one time saying God gave you your paycheck, job, apartment and I was laid off cause God was mad at me.

 

Well lets look at the "would it of happened anway question"

 

1. my paycheck comes from my job not God if it came from God I wouldn't need my job.

 

2. I got my job from filling out job applications God had nothing to do with it

 

3. my apartment came from working to pay the bills.

 

4. we get laid off about once a year and the whole plant does

 

If Gods gave me my paycheck why don't he give money to the homeless so they can have an apartment? Why don't he give them jobs? Why do people have to apply for jobs and work. So is Seth claiming God will pay me to be a christian? Well why don't God pay everyone that'd be a great idea he can advertise it on tv and send checks to everyone to be christian. While he's at it he can feed the hungry and dying on them feed the children commercials. There is no miracle here.

 

Ever prayer or thing I think God might of stuck his hand in…When I ask would it of happened anyway? It just goes out the window. If your answered prayer took effort on your part you cannot claim it as a miracle. Miracle in websters dictionary is called a supernatural event. So it has to be beyond natural.

 

 

 

Miracles

 

Usually when people think of miracles its usually a healing or some rescue from danger.

 

 

 

Healing

 

Ask anyone who studys meditation they will tell you that you can think yourself well in most cases. There is proof that meditation, postive thinking, visualization and relaxation exersizes can Aide in healing. Plus there's so many successful surgeries, medicines and people walk out of the hospitals well everyday.

 

Prayer can easily be considered mediation you relax, you tell God to heal your cold kill your viruses and you probally visualise this happening.

 

If God did this no effort on your part or the doctors part would be nessissary? it's your body fighting the illness and your firm belief it will.

 

If God did it why don't he just appear and bop you on the head with a magic wand and your healed? Why'd you have to rest, meditate, go to the doctor, take medicine or what ever you did to help yourself heal why?

 

 

 

Rescue from danger

 

Why does ever rescue from danger never involve God sticking his hand down from the sky and rescuing you?

 

Let's say your in a inner tube in the ocean ahhh how relaxing you fall asleep. You drift off miles and miles then wake up and the shore looks like a tiny spec in the distance. how horrifying your scared you swim and swim but you just tire yourself. You then see a shark about 12 feet away you hope it isn't hungry. You scream and cry out too God praying with all your heart. It just so happens a man is asleep in a motor boat with the motor off. He hears your loud screams he turns on the motor and rushes to rescue you his boat scares the shark and he takes you to the shore. Why didn't God just reach down his mighty hand scoup you up and lay you on the shore? This is one of those it would've happened anyway things. But you'll give the man no credit you'll say God told the man to find you.

 

 

 

You could also ask why God rescued you but not:

 

1. the victums of 9-11

 

2.Jonbenet ramsey

 

3.the amish girls who were shot to death

 

watch the news tonight and you wont see much Devine Intervention.

 

 

 

2.God Speaks to me? Does he really?

 

God told me to witness to you bla bla bla! God told me to take this Job bla bla bla! I hear it everday.

 

I one time asked a preacher how do you know if your thoughts are from God?

 

He said Good thoughts God then bad thoughts are from Satan.

 

I should of asked where am I? Do I have no thoughts of my own? So Satans on one shoulder Gods on the other and me in the middle I suppose.

 

I got a better idea the mind is kind of like a computer storing files, programs, information on everything you click on and you can find what you need.

 

Ask your self a question… Anything just ASK say (your name) what is a good thing to do right now? I'm getting clean house lol.

 

Now ASK the same question like this God whats a good thing to do now? Again same answer.

 

Your brain already knows whats good based on what you consider good so you can ask yourself anything and get an answer no matter what word you call it.

 

Your brain records everything it sees, hears, thinks, and is programed just like a computer based on enviroment, family and friend influences, and based on your personal thoughts and it pulls out the files like on a computer what you've observed and thought before based on what your looking at.

 

It's not God It's not the devil it's YOU that's speaking to YOU.

 

Let's look at the things I listed above if God spoke to people why didn't he tell the victums of 9-11 don't go to work tommorow terrorists will blow up the building, tell JonBnet's parents she was in danger (if u believe the intruder theory) why didn't he tell the Amish girls parents to keep there kids home.

 

He could've also intervened and stopped this crap from happening look at the news at all the crime, wars, disasters….. Where is God?

 

 

 

3.I can feel God no your feeling your emotions

 

I hear it a lot I can feel the peace, serenity and spiritualness or I feel high like dancing. In church I feel a spiritualness.

 

Keep telling yourself that cause the minute you quit it'll stop. KEY WORD I this is probally the most powerfullest word you can ever say. When you say I the programming in your head turns on. Want me to prove it? Read this sentence over and over about a minute: I feel Happy.

 

Of course you feel peace, serenity, spiritualness that's what your thinking about and your brain already knows what them things feel like so it flips them on like a light switch. You said one time 'I feel so happy in church! " so your brain jotted down HAPPY and CHURCH and that's the orders you gave it too feel happy in church. What ever emotion you was feeling at the time you labeled spiritiual so the brain stuck that label on it now your programeed to feel that way in church.

 

If it wasn't that way you'd never have people not like church cause they'd feel what u feel but a lot of them don't.

 

 

 

4,I see God!... no you don't!

 

Lets say you walk in a church as a kid holding mommy's hand you say whose that man in the picture? Mommy says jesus he is God. You think about it ok God is a man in a white robe, brown hair, mustache and beard. You got a God image in your head

 

Ok years later in suday school you learn your good thoughts are God's thoughts so you think this God image is speaking to you. you just subconsciously told your brain to picture Jesus saying your Good thoughts too you. And Most if not all kids imagine Jesus or some other image speaking to them and appearing in front of them. Telling you Good thoughts. Now you probally also got the image of Satan to tell you bad thoughts. Want proof ok here's two ways.

 

1. imaging a orange ball in front of you now ask it what's a good thing to do? It answered didn't it? your minds gonna answer your question no matter what u call it or image you use.

 

2. tell god to put your house keys in your hand if it's really God he should have no problem doing it. Even a baby could do that surely the all powerful God of the universe could put your keys in your hand.

 

 

 

I'v brought up before on myspace/bebo the many different religions, images of god, conflicts of interest and different holy books proving there'd be no conflict if god showed his self to the world. If gods talking to you keep it between you and him he's all powerful he could tell the whole world the truth if he tells you to do it. tell him to quit being lazy and tell people they would believe him over you anyday. Here's another game get a quarter pray god makes it flip on heads each time you shake it and flip it on the floor. Damn I got tails on the first try oooh guess gods pissed at me.

 

 

 

5.Where is God?

 

O,k to avoid the oh your thinking of the wrong dude we'll use the name bob. All religions it seem to agree God is a man a human ok we run into a few problems.

 

Were gonna call God Bob.

 

1. Is Bob in the Sky?

 

Ok, Bobs a human do you see a man standing up there? Ever see a news report where people in a airplane seen God? Hopefully he has wings or he'd fall down to the earth splatted on the ground like a pancake.

 

2.Is Bob in space

 

hopefully Bob warped into the future and got a space suit and oxygen tank cause humans can't live with out it in space. Also scientists in rockets and satelittes still haven't seen Bob he's supposed to be watching the earth answering all them thousands of prayers right?

 

 

 

3. is bob under ground, under water or under something?

 

With out oxygen he'd die under water, under ground he'd burn in the magma he isn't under anything.

 

 

 

Ok, I know some of you will say he's God he can make himself able to survive those things…maybe so but we still got a big problem.

 

 

 

6.Evidence

 

What is god? You can find a billion answers

 

Where is god? You can find a billion answers

 

What's god look like? You can find a billion answers

 

With all these billions of different answers you'd think God would solve it once in for all the questions mankind has asked since the beginning of mankind.

 

Evidence in a court of law includes hair samples, skin samples, finger prints, dna, testimonies, confessions, and things belonging to the person.

 

If someone asked me to show them what a pine tree looks like I could show pictures of them, send needles to them, point one out and even bring one to there house if it was a small pine tree. But with God you can't do that. People say but oh my holy book proves it….but is that enough for you?

 

Anyone can write a book and say it's from God.

 

 

 

7.Creation

 

Ever religion has there story of how God created the world and the universe.

 

But where's the proof? I could say I created the world and write a story about how I did it.

 

But you could say oh no you was born in 1975 the world was 6 billion years old you wasn't around.

 

Yea you can debunk that pretty easily cause you know about me.

 

The next problem is where's the proof God created the world? Scientists have the string theory, big bang and evolution but no God theory. Oh I'm sure your gonna say but some do. Well if it was evidence no body could debunk why are they arguing over it? remember my pine tree example? What if someone picked up a pine cone and said maples really made these. Then I could point to the pine tree and say see those baby pine cones they made them. It would be defeated and no room for argument if there was concrete proof God created the earth it'd be there. Ever holy book ever written is just one argument against another religion that has another story and none of them have succesfully convinced the scientific community it's the way it happened. Evidence defeats arguments where there's arguments theirs not good evidence it's the truth.

 

 

 

8. How religion probally began

 

We don't know who or what created the universe and sure didn't know along time ago when humans first evolved.

 

Early humans thought of the earth as the mother of all things cause everything lives on it, plants and vegitables grow from it, water to drink it's like a mother providing for its children. The sun was thought of as a father or mother in some cases.the bright sun in the sky you can't look at for long and the moon. They must of thought they were gods watching us. Nature was mother and father.

 

Right and wrong

 

Let's say a man cheated on his wife and he ws kicked out of his cave. He walked in the rain and lighning struck him. surely sungod was angry at the man for cheating on his wife people said. So by the time it circles the village it's believed god will punish people cheating on their wives.

 

Early people believed:

 

Thunder and lighting: god is angry

 

Rain: god is sad

 

Sunny blue sky: god is happy

 

Winter:everythings dead god must of died and winter god took over

 

Summer: god came back and defeated winter god.

 

Prayers and magical things.

 

Here's a story I heard once showing how this might of happened:

 

A man was hunting he was walking in the woods. He stubbed his toe on a rock and shouted ow and jumped up and down. He brought home 5 deer that day and the rock. He tells the village the story. Now when ever they go hunting they kick the rock, jump up and down and yell OW. Of course they believe god gave them this sacred rock they make a shrine around it maybe make offerings too it hoping it will grant them other wishes.

 

Prophets

 

So many people probally wondered where everything came from? Whose god? Thousands and thousands on questions and probally one person had them more.

 

One person decided to find out he probally fasted or some other torture thinking god would come and rescue him and he could talk to him or he might of smoked drungs or ate mushrooms he knew made visions and surely if he thought of a question in his altered state he'd get an answer. He writes down everything he sees and hears in a holy book. People shrug him off at first some miracles gotta prove he's a prophet so let's say one day they're all being chased by a pack of lions. He runs but gets his foot stuck in a hole. And everyones shaking scared in the bushes women holding there children close everyone crying thinking it's the end of him.

 

A lion goes up to him and the other lions look at him. he kicks the lion in the nose and and gets loose and runs at them waving a stick. They for some reason run away. He protected them now they'll believe him.

 

 

 

Campfire tales

 

Remember no one had a computer, tv or anything. So they'd sit around a campfire telling their opinions on creation, life, hunting stories, miracles, beliefs and tales.

 

These stories traveled by word of mouth to other villages some probally thought they were fact, conflicted with what they had or thought they were god storys and added them to theirs. People start writing them down. Years later people who didn't know they were stories and ideas or knew the tribe thought they were things that really happened. Maybe the story went from generation to generation by word of mouth it probally started out as just a story of what they thought happened and years later came to be known as fact.

 

 

 

9. AFTERLIFE

 

I reallly hope there's an afterlife the thought of dieing and not existing enymore sends chills up my spine.

 

But putting false hope in religions ideas is just playing a guessing game. This is dangerous expecially if you beleave certain people go to heaven while

 

Other people will go to hell. This is the most dangerous belief so I'm gonna debunk it first.

 

1. Resurrection

 

This is impossible your buried six feet under dirt under a cement sheet in a coffin and your body becomes dust.

 

What about people cremated? People beheaded? Will the heads crawl on the ground looking for there body on resurrection day?

 

No body will rise out of the ground in their old decayed moldy body eeew gross

 

2. Heaven and hell

 

Heaven in in the sky or in space right? Well no satelites ever seen it, people on planes never seen it and no towers ever reached it.

 

Hell under the ground? You'd think someone digging for oil would find it or someone digging would dig up a demon.

 

Whys no one found Heaven and Hell? Surely with planes, rockets and satelites in the sky and space, people digging in the ground, people all over the world somebody would see it. ever religion has a different version of heaven and hell surely if we knew exactly what it was we'd have no argument.

 

Whys no body able to visit it? no bodys come back from it to tell us what it's like. Where in the hell is hell? Lol there's too many theorys on the afterlife but no body can tell us a thing that can be proven why?

 

 

 

The Catepillar, Frogs and babys.

 

Catepillar

 

Imaging you're a catepilliar among other catepillars. If they could talk and you said someday you'll be a cacoon and be a butterfly. I'm sure they'd laugh and say no this is the ongly life there is. They don't know what'll happen, how they got here or anything.

 

Frogs

 

Picture yourself as a little tadpole swimming in the water you'd probally never think for a minute you'd one day breath air, eat bugs, turn into one of those frogs and leave your tadpole family and they'd never see you again. They don't know what'll happen, how they got here or anything

 

Babies

 

A baby in the womb if it could think would probally never imagaine it's be in a place other than a watery dark womb. Seeing a whole new world being on its own breathing air. They don't know what'll happen, how they got here or anything.

 

 

 

We don't know how we got here, how the universe was made, if there is a creator, if there is an afterlife. If you wanna make guesses and believe in religions go ahead. But you need to realise we don't know everything were like hermit crabs exploring the beach when it comes to exploring everything. We must stop killing, bashing and fighting over what beliefs we think is right when we don't really have any proof they are right. Don't pretend you know everything when you don't

 

I hope there is a God or atleast an afterlife but playing the guessing game isn't the answer. Some people say well, if there isn't a God why'd the first humans feel there is? Maybe your right maybe they feel there's a god cause there is but beleaving stories winch has no basis in fact is silly. Just cause some dood found a book in a cave and the book says it's from God don't make it fact.

 

 

 

People are so surprised when some people think this is unreasonable. If you heard today that a virgin had a baby, a book in a cave was from god, someone walked on water, resurrected from the dead you wouldn't beleave it.

[mwc]

What do I think?

 

I think you sure sound a lot different than you did when you first came by asking questions.

 

mwc

[willybilly30]

yea I think alot diffrently than I used too I been thinking about this stuff alot lately.

[Ramen666]

= Your post

[Mythra]

okay - who are you and what have you done with willybilly? It's nice to see someone who first comes here threatened and intimidated and defensive about religion, and develop into someone who is able to see through the fog and figure out rationally that it's all nonsense.

 

 

Good post, man.

 

I always wondered if God had to ramp up his prayer listening abilities on sunday mornings, since that was when the switchboard saw the most action.

[willybilly30]

I was afraid at first I guess kinda like as a kid and you think theirs a man in your closet then you turn on the light and find out its just a sweater I was ready to leave christianity but not everything else i'm ready now. Also I started listening to people like InfidelGuys videos on youtube and stuff like that it made alot of sense. Also I'v thought about this stuff alot its no wonder religions are against thinking for yourself cause if you do it will start to not make sense. I'm just tired of the guessing game you get a guess then got to defend it with another guess it gets old.

[Piprus]

I didn't know you from before, willybilly, so I don't know what mythra and mwc are referring to. All I can say is "right on target" to your OP, 'cause that's the same kind of things I kept asking myself, so long ago. Sometimes for hours on end. For real. Your post was great...keep stoking that mind.

[InspectoGeneral]

Sounds like you have lots of questions willy. Lots of questions.

[crazy-tiger]

Sounds like you have lots of questions willy. Lots of questions.

Did I hear a twat?

[willybilly30]

Sounds like you have lots of questions willy. Lots of questions.

 

 

That's all you got to say? Inspecto?

For an Inspecto General you don't do much inspecting.

Judgeing from the junk i'v seen you say other places this would be too hard for you anyway.

[InspectoGeneral]

Sounds like you have lots of questions willy. Lots of questions.

 

 

That's all you got to say? Inspecto?

For an Inspecto General you don't do much inspecting.

Judgeing from the junk i'v seen you say other places this would be too hard for you anyway.

 

 

Questions abound here willy. There's no harm in that. No answers, just a lot of questions. It seems that having questions with no answers is one of the great virtues here. I was just commenting on all your questions. That's all.

[willybilly30]

I gave answers to each one of my questions did you not read everything.

[Mongo]

 

Questions abound here willy. There's no harm in that. No answers, just a lot of questions. It seems that having questions with no answers is one of the great virtues here. I was just commenting on all your questions. That's all.

 

IG,

 

I must agree that there are a lot of questions around here. Most of us like looking at the deeper questions of life in an environment where dissent is tolerated. I find this makes a strong contrast against fundamentalist churches.

 

Many of us have found that when we asked deeper questions at church, people began to look at you differently and many people responded by using intimidation or bold admonitions to "trust Jesus" rather than using reason and showing compassion.

 

Have you never heard the brotheren say, "Christians are the only people who shoot their wounded"?

 

Doubt was mildly tolerated. Sharing your stories with a few people resulted in them being passed around to everybody. My brother just wrote me and said to keep his job search to myself because of the church "grape vine". Church is a very good place to accept one version of truth but a very poor place to explore it.

 

As to there being "no answers" here, I would merely disagree. There are many of us who propose several different answers to the myriad of questions people pose. Whether you agree or disagree with much of what I say, I have provided an answer. You don't have to accept any of what I or others say but I ask you to at least give some thought to what people say.

 

Mongo

[InspectoGeneral]

 

Questions abound here willy. There's no harm in that. No answers, just a lot of questions. It seems that having questions with no answers is one of the great virtues here. I was just commenting on all your questions. That's all.

 

IG,

 

I must agree that there are a lot of questions around here. Most of us like looking at the deeper questions of life in an environment where dissent is tolerated. I find this makes a strong contrast against fundamentalist churches.

 

Many of us have found that when we asked deeper questions at church, people began to look at you differently and many people responded by using intimidation or bold admonitions to "trust Jesus" rather than using reason and showing compassion.

 

Have you never heard the brotheren say, "Christians are the only people who shoot their wounded"?

 

Doubt was mildly tolerated. Sharing your stories with a few people resulted in them being passed around to everybody. My brother just wrote me and said to keep his job search to myself because of the church "grape vine". Church is a very good place to accept one version of truth but a very poor place to explore it.

 

As to there being "no answers" here, I would merely disagree. There are many of us who propose several different answers to the myriad of questions people pose. Whether you agree or disagree with much of what I say, I have provided an answer. You don't have to accept any of what I or others say but I ask you to at least give some thought to what people say.

 

Mongo

 

 

I understand what you are saying. There are no perfect Christians out there. It is sad that you weren't able to get answers to the questions you had.

 

When I referred to the lack of answers, I was refering to definitive answers. Giving several possibilities to a proposed question doesn't really answer the question. It seems that most here reject the idea that there are any definitive answers.

 

Thanks for the reasoned thoughtful response. It is refreshing.

 

I gave answers to each one of my questions did you not read everything.

 

I read most of it. It wasn't my purpose to address your post in detail, just a general comment.

[crazy-tiger]

I read most of it. It wasn't my purpose to address your post in detail, just a general comment.

Like the sound of your keys clicking, do you?

 

You post a lot, but there's no meaning in them.

[InspectoGeneral]

I read most of it. It wasn't my purpose to address your post in detail, just a general comment.

Like the sound of your keys clicking, do you?

 

You post a lot, but there's no meaning in them.

 

Are you stalking me? I'm flattered.

[crazy-tiger]

I read most of it. It wasn't my purpose to address your post in detail, just a general comment.

Like the sound of your keys clicking, do you?

 

You post a lot, but there's no meaning in them.

 

Are you stalking me? I'm flattered.

My home... not yours.

 

 

Try not to puff yourself up too far, that's what Pharisees and scorners do...

[Mongo]

I understand what you are saying. There are no perfect Christians out there. It is sad that you weren't able to get answers to the questions you had.

 

I ran into a few really foul christians but they were just plain foul to everybody. For the most part I had some good friends who treated me well. I found I was quite adept at sending the "Don't you dare" stare and most people showed me a reasonable amount of respect.

 

As to answers, I most certainly found answers in the Pentecostal church. Over a period of 10 years I pursued it vigorously and in the end I determined that the answers I got were wrong.

 

The very first night that someone shared the gospel with me at a youth bible study, one phrase stuck in my head like a fly on peanut butter; "Prayer changes things".

 

I put that phrase to the test. I prayed alot before I went to bed and each sunday at church I sometimes prayed like a banchee. My life changed radically and something like an infilling of the holy spirit affected everything I did from then on.

 

The problem was, it didn't last. I would pray and read my bible and rely on god and yet it always and invariably wear off like an emotion.

 

I eventually concluded that it really was nothing more than emotion.

 

I concluded that god does not have a holy spirit that would give us strength and that it was only emotion.

 

I explored whether god gives you strength or whether we have to do the work. None of the answers made sense to me.

 

The closest answer I got was that I had to pray and seek god and if I did that, god would give me his spirit.

 

The problem I found was that I found that it amounted to the same thing. Praying and praying until I "broke through" to god was a lot of hard work. At first it was exciting but eventually it was boaring. The bible that seemed so exciting at first became boaring. The verses I had memorized and repeated over and over, lost a lot their punch.

 

Of course... I did all that and time and time again... the "spirit" would wear off.

 

I could never find a rational explanation for that inside the confines of christian theology.

 

I took a good hard look at my brethern and asked myself what they were going through. I noticed that many of them had deveolped a lot of histrionic behaviours that mimic the effects of the holy spirit but they didn't seem genuine. I too had begun to develop these histrionic behaviours in an effort to pray and praise god until his spirit visited me.

 

I concluded that my brethern were experienceing the same thing as me and that I was destined to become the "dead wood" that I abhored.

 

From that I decided I no longer wanted to have the "up and down" experiences that Pentecostal and other charismatic churches speak of often in the pulpit.

 

I was given lots of answers and through my experience, I concluded those answers were not right.

 

Outside theology however... things made more sense.

 

I learned that Bhuddists have similar emotional experiences when the meditate. I learned other religions had similar experiences.

 

I learned how wonderful it is to live life without having to "pump" yourself up with thoughts of god and praise for him.

 

I rediscovered how wonderous the world is and that there is so much to explore and discover.

 

I learned that I have abilities and if I put some effort into that rather than pursuing god, I could progress at work and gain promotion.

 

I know you don't agree with my conclusions. That is fine. They are what they are.

 

When I referred to the lack of answers, I was refering to definitive answers. Giving several possibilities to a proposed question doesn't really answer the question. It seems that most here reject the idea that there are any definitive answers.

 

You are right; there are no definitive answers here.

 

The problem with definitive answers is the question of who gets to decide what is the definitive answer.

 

You might be thinking that the obvious answer to that question is god. I understand your point.

 

The problem I have with that is... god doesn't speak to all of us the same way so we end up disputing which one of us god really did speak to.

 

As soon as we point to the bible as god speaking to us, the whole matter becomes very muddy.

 

It was people that wrote the bible. It was people that copied it and there are other books that claim to be god's word.

 

There is nothing, absolutely nothing in writing that I am not forced to take someone else's word that god told them to tell me how to live.

 

I can understand you disagreeing. I used to shake my head at unbelievers who could have the riches of god's love if only they would pray for him to come into their hearts.

 

I don't want to get into a pissing match with you over this. I just want to share my point of view.

 

Mongo

[willybilly30]

 

I gave answers to each one of my questions did you not read everything.

 

I read most of it. It wasn't my purpose to address your post in detail, just a general comment.

 

You can't just read "most" of my rants if you don't read all of it you wont get the big picture of what i'm trying to say. Do you buy a book at the book store and read half of it and think you know all the author was talking about? I'v read your posts in the topic...what was it called...something about Atheists. I can't help but notice you don't debate with them do you not have any arguments for what they think? All I see is you yelling about this place being a forum and saying everyones mean too you. Are you really suprised Atheists are being mean too you? Its human nature too fight when someone challenges their beliefs. But you don't present anything challenging their beliefs you just shout your wrong and mean. Go read some websites on creationism or apologetic stuff and present that otherwise you just look like a idiot although you may still look like one but atleast you'll look like you've done your homework. If you disagree with my views here and i'm sure you do then atleast bring some issues too the table. You know I think i'll go to that topic you said it was about Atheists but I can still debate I know enough about Atheists too debate against you.

 

 

 

here it is:

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?show...c=10626&hl=

[InspectoGeneral]

I understand what you are saying. There are no perfect Christians out there. It is sad that you weren't able to get answers to the questions you had.

 

I ran into a few really foul christians but they were just plain foul to everybody. For the most part I had some good friends who treated me well. I found I was quite adept at sending the "Don't you dare" stare and most people showed me a reasonable amount of respect.

 

As to answers, I most certainly found answers in the Pentecostal church. Over a period of 10 years I pursued it vigorously and in the end I determined that the answers I got were wrong.

 

The very first night that someone shared the gospel with me at a youth bible study, one phrase stuck in my head like a fly on peanut butter; "Prayer changes things".

 

I put that phrase to the test. I prayed alot before I went to bed and each sunday at church I sometimes prayed like a banchee. My life changed radically and something like an infilling of the holy spirit affected everything I did from then on.

 

The problem was, it didn't last. I would pray and read my bible and rely on god and yet it always and invariably wear off like an emotion.

 

I eventually concluded that it really was nothing more than emotion.

 

I concluded that god does not have a holy spirit that would give us strength and that it was only emotion.

 

I explored whether god gives you strength or whether we have to do the work. None of the answers made sense to me.

 

The closest answer I got was that I had to pray and seek god and if I did that, god would give me his spirit.

 

The problem I found was that I found that it amounted to the same thing. Praying and praying until I "broke through" to god was a lot of hard work. At first it was exciting but eventually it was boaring. The bible that seemed so exciting at first became boaring. The verses I had memorized and repeated over and over, lost a lot their punch.

 

Of course... I did all that and time and time again... the "spirit" would wear off.

 

I could never find a rational explanation for that inside the confines of christian theology.

 

I took a good hard look at my brethern and asked myself what they were going through. I noticed that many of them had deveolped a lot of histrionic behaviours that mimic the effects of the holy spirit but they didn't seem genuine. I too had begun to develop these histrionic behaviours in an effort to pray and praise god until his spirit visited me.

 

I concluded that my brethern were experienceing the same thing as me and that I was destined to become the "dead wood" that I abhored.

 

From that I decided I no longer wanted to have the "up and down" experiences that Pentecostal and other charismatic churches speak of often in the pulpit.

 

I was given lots of answers and through my experience, I concluded those answers were not right.

 

Outside theology however... things made more sense.

 

I learned that Bhuddists have similar emotional experiences when the meditate. I learned other religions had similar experiences.

 

I learned how wonderful it is to live life without having to "pump" yourself up with thoughts of god and praise for him.

 

I rediscovered how wonderous the world is and that there is so much to explore and discover.

 

I learned that I have abilities and if I put some effort into that rather than pursuing god, I could progress at work and gain promotion.

 

I know you don't agree with my conclusions. That is fine. They are what they are.

 

When I referred to the lack of answers, I was refering to definitive answers. Giving several possibilities to a proposed question doesn't really answer the question. It seems that most here reject the idea that there are any definitive answers.

 

You are right; there are no definitive answers here.

 

The problem with definitive answers is the question of who gets to decide what is the definitive answer.

 

You might be thinking that the obvious answer to that question is god. I understand your point.

 

The problem I have with that is... god doesn't speak to all of us the same way so we end up disputing which one of us god really did speak to.

 

As soon as we point to the bible as god speaking to us, the whole matter becomes very muddy.

 

It was people that wrote the bible. It was people that copied it and there are other books that claim to be god's word.

 

There is nothing, absolutely nothing in writing that I am not forced to take someone else's word that god told them to tell me how to live.

 

I can understand you disagreeing. I used to shake my head at unbelievers who could have the riches of god's love if only they would pray for him to come into their hearts.

 

I don't want to get into a pissing match with you over this. I just want to share my point of view.

 

Mongo

 

 

Mongo-

 

Thanks for your post.

 

The fact that you were in the Pentecostal Church explains a lot. Many have experience the same thing you have. The Pentecostal church relies heavily on emotion. After a year or two, the emotion wears off, leaving you empty inside. Unfortunately, that is all too common among Pentecostals.

 

I can't blame you for being disillusioned after your experience. I think you were sold a false bill of goods and given a wrong view of God. And that is a shame. It is one thing for someone to have a right view of God and reject Him, it is another for someone to have a wrong view of God and reject Him.

[InspectoGeneral]

 

I gave answers to each one of my questions did you not read everything.

 

I read most of it. It wasn't my purpose to address your post in detail, just a general comment.

 

You can't just read "most" of my rants if you don't read all of it you wont get the big picture of what i'm trying to say. Do you buy a book at the book store and read half of it and think you know all the author was talking about? I'v read your posts in the topic...what was it called...something about Atheists. I can't help but notice you don't debate with them do you not have any arguments for what they think? All I see is you yelling about this place being a forum and saying everyones mean too you. Are you really suprised Atheists are being mean too you? Its human nature too fight when someone challenges their beliefs. But you don't present anything challenging their beliefs you just shout your wrong and mean. Go read some websites on creationism or apologetic stuff and present that otherwise you just look like a idiot although you may still look like one but atleast you'll look like you've done your homework. If you disagree with my views here and i'm sure you do then atleast bring some issues too the table. You know I think i'll go to that topic you said it was about Atheists but I can still debate I know enough about Atheists too debate against you.

 

 

 

here it is:

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?show...c=10626&hl=

 

 

If you read my post, then you would know why it is foolish for me to debate you. In a debate, the debaters hold positions. In the case of an Atheist, they have no position. They believe in nothing as concerning God. You can attack my beliefs. But I can't attack yours. Why? Because you have none. That is precisely the reason I said that Atheism is for the weak. Anyone can attack someone. Especially when they have no position to attack. You have no vulnerabilities, no position.

 

That is why it is foolish to debate you. It isn't really a debate at all. It is you attacking what I believe, which is no debate at all. What do you want to attack? Creation? Go ahead. You can't explain where everything came from or how life began. But you can attack Creation. Do you want to attack the existence of God? Go ahead. Since you don't know everything, the existence of God is a possibility. Again, neither one is a debate. It is you attacking, and anyone can attack when they have nothing to defend.

[crazy-tiger]

If you read my post, then you would know why it is foolish for me to debate you. In a debate, the debaters hold positions. In the case of an Atheist, they have no position. They believe in nothing as concerning God. You can attack my beliefs. But I can't attack yours. Why? Because you have none. That is precisely the reason I said that Atheism is for the weak. Anyone can attack someone. Especially when they have no position to attack. You have no vulnerabilities, no position.

Someone doesn't understand Atheists...

 

Inspecto, I may think you're an idiot, but I'll do you this favour.

The position held in debates are based on information... the information is what is attacked, not the position.

 

For instance, you state that Atheists have no position concerning God. That's fine and dandy... it just means that you don't see any way to debate an Atheist.

Me, on the other hand, would debate an Atheist by finding out WHY they don't believe, and then attacking them based on that information.

 

 

Not only do you not understand Atheists, but you don't understand how to debate.

That is why it is foolish to debate you. It isn't really a debate at all. It is you attacking what I believe, which is no debate at all. What do you want to attack? Creation? Go ahead. You can't explain where everything came from or how life began. But you can attack Creation. Do you want to attack the existence of God? Go ahead. Since you don't know everything, the existence of God is a possibility. Again, neither one is a debate. It is you attacking, and anyone can attack when they have nothing to defend.

Inspecto... if you were honest, you would admit that saying "Godidit" doesn't explain where everything came from or how life began. All it does is push the question back a bit.

 

Seriously... how did life begin? "Godidit" Well, how did God do it? "dunno, but Godidit"

If you have any other answer, go right ahead and let us know... because we've been waiting for a long time for some Christian to give us the answer of how life began.

 

Creationists claim they have the answer, but the answer they have is no answer at all...

 

Meanwhile, you can attack Abigenesis... but you'd need to understand it beforehand, or you'd get your ass handed to you in short order. (do you understand it?)

You could attack Evolution... but you'd need to understand it and you've already shown that you don't.

You could attack our reasons for not believing... but you'd need to know them, and understand them first.... and you've already shown that you're not interested in anything we have to say about that.

 

 

3 lines of attack there... and valid ones at that... but you don't see them.

 

You are blind to the possibilities, so proclaim our position for the weak. Funny how not having the answers, how having to find things out, how not having the God security blanket and how having shit loads of people despise us is for the weak.

 

You need to be a strong person to be an Atheist, Inspecto... but you don't understand it.

You don't understand it, so you don't even try to find out anything about it.

 

THAT is a weak position... and it's sad that you see it as a position of strength.

[willybilly30]

name='InspectoGeneral' date='Nov 8 2006, 12:20 AM' post='230241'

 

 

If you read my post, then you would know why it is foolish for me to debate you. In a debate, the debaters hold positions. In the case of an Atheist, they have no position. They believe in nothing as concerning God. You can attack my beliefs. But I can't attack yours. Why? Because you have none. That is precisely the reason I said that Atheism is for the weak. Anyone can attack someone. Especially when they have no position to attack. You have no vulnerabilities, no position.

 

That is why it is foolish to debate you. It isn't really a debate at all. It is you attacking what I believe, which is no debate at all. What do you want to attack? Creation? Go ahead. You can't explain where everything came from or how life began. But you can attack Creation. Do you want to attack the existence of God? Go ahead. Since you don't know everything, the existence of God is a possibility. Again, neither one is a debate. It is you attacking, and anyone can attack when they have nothing to defend.

 

Funny how you argue with everyone else on the board but all you say too me is "I have nothing too defend" Funny I'm the only one who you do this too am I the only on here you think don't beleave in god? If you read my posts on your "Atheism is for the weak thread" you'd see lots of stuff to argue against. The problem is my thoughts back you in a corner and you can't figure a way out. Anything I say that your cult leader or bible hasn't said you can't argue against.

[InspectoGeneral]

name='InspectoGeneral' date='Nov 8 2006, 12:20 AM' post='230241'

 

 

If you read my post, then you would know why it is foolish for me to debate you. In a debate, the debaters hold positions. In the case of an Atheist, they have no position. They believe in nothing as concerning God. You can attack my beliefs. But I can't attack yours. Why? Because you have none. That is precisely the reason I said that Atheism is for the weak. Anyone can attack someone. Especially when they have no position to attack. You have no vulnerabilities, no position.

 

That is why it is foolish to debate you. It isn't really a debate at all. It is you attacking what I believe, which is no debate at all. What do you want to attack? Creation? Go ahead. You can't explain where everything came from or how life began. But you can attack Creation. Do you want to attack the existence of God? Go ahead. Since you don't know everything, the existence of God is a possibility. Again, neither one is a debate. It is you attacking, and anyone can attack when they have nothing to defend.

 

Funny how you argue with everyone else on the board but all you say too me is "I have nothing too defend" Funny I'm the only one who you do this too am I the only on here you think don't beleave in god? If you read my posts on your "Atheism is for the weak thread" you'd see lots of stuff to argue against. The problem is my thoughts back you in a corner and you can't figure a way out. Anything I say that your cult leader or bible hasn't said you can't argue against.

 

I can't believe it willy. You've figured me out. Of course I am afraid to debate you. What can I say, I am overmatched. Your rhetorical skills are far beyond your years.

[Lycorth]

Inspecto does a good job in making a public display of why fundamentalist Xianity is an asshole religion that breeds assholes.

 

Thanks for playing