You Can Never Go To Far For God To Reach You...

[riverbank]

This is a question mostly aimed at Christians, but anyone's input would be most welcome :-)

 

During my deconversion process, I had at least two people say to me that there is nothing that you can do that is too much for God to reach you, or words to that effect. Also on more than occasion, of course, I have had the "God will call you back to him" speech.

 

The question I have is, how do christians believe that there is nothing that you can do to take you away from God? Perhaps it is the verse that says Nothing shall separate us from the love of God that is in Jesus Christ our Lord?

 

Yeah there are verses in the bible that hint along these lines, yet other accounts in the bible refute this. What about Judas Iscariot? Or Ananias and Sapphira? Where was God's mercy for these people?

 

Also there is the scripture probably well known to us here at ex-christian.net from Hebrews saying that it is impossible for those who have been christians, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance (sorry don't have bible to hand to quote exact scripture). And of course there is the "unpardonable sin" - blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

 

I could go on, but I won't. Do you really believe that there is nothing that you do that goes too far for God to reach you?

[Wertbag]

Except when God himself gave up on all humanity and flooded the planet killing every last man, woman and child. Kind of sticks in the mind that one, the all loving, father of mankind decides to obliterate all of the human race, obviously giving up on any form of redemption.

You'd think he could have turned up in one of his many forms and convinced the majority of the errors of their ways, but instead mass genocide was a better choice.

 

The Bible is full of stories of the Israelites wiping out tribes, cities or using capital punishment at Gods request. One of my personal favourites is the competition between God and Baal, that once God wins, He has all of the Baal worshippers slaughtered. God himself struck down the poor sap who touched the Ark of the Covenant, was God really saying that guy was beyond redemption for trying to protect the holy relic?

The Christian God may always be able to reach you, but its more likely to be a lightning bolt, flood or fire...

[smellincoffee]

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

 

And the New Testament states that there is one sin that God can't/won't forgive. Unfortunately for us, it doesn't exactly make clear what this unforgivable sin, so it's sort of like putting a Big Red Button on a machine and disguising it as a harmless green one.

[Piprus]

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

 

And the New Testament states that there is one sin that God can't/won't forgive. Unfortunately for us, it doesn't exactly make clear what this unforgivable sin, so it's sort of like putting a Big Red Button on a machine and disguising it as a harmless green one.

Since I've probably pushed that button at least a hundred times, by now in the christian's eyes I should be spiritual charcoal...

[Guest Jen]

This is a question mostly aimed at Christians, but anyone's input would be most welcome :-)

 

During my deconversion process, I had at least two people say to me that there is nothing that you can do that is too much for God to reach you, or words to that effect. Also on more than occasion, of course, I have had the "God will call you back to him" speech.

 

The question I have is, how do christians believe that there is nothing that you can do to take you away from God? Perhaps it is the verse that says Nothing shall separate us from the love of God that is in Jesus Christ our Lord?

 

Yeah there are verses in the bible that hint along these lines, yet other accounts in the bible refute this. What about Judas Iscariot? Or Ananias and Sapphira? Where was God's mercy for these people?

 

Also there is the scripture probably well known to us here at ex-christian.net from Hebrews saying that it is impossible for those who have been christians, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance (sorry don't have bible to hand to quote exact scripture). And of course there is the "unpardonable sin" - blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

 

I could go on, but I won't. Do you really believe that there is nothing that you do that goes too far for God to reach you?

 

Well, I do know that most scholars consider it impossible to commit the Unforgivable Sin: don't ask me why, I forget most of the specifics.

 

As for the verse regarding apostasy, many Protestant Christians will tell you that those who fell away were never saved in the first place, because there are numerous verses where Jesus says He will keep all of those His Father has given Him, and nothing shall His sheep from His hand.

[riverbank]

Hi Jen

 

Welcome to the forum. Many times christians have come up with "those who fall away were never saved in the first place". If you read the "Testimonies of Former Christians" section, then I would think that would maybe re-consider your opinion, if indeed that is your opinion.

 

Quote:

Jesus says He will keep all of those His Father has given Him, and nothing shall His sheep from His hand.

 

My own experiences contradict that. That's all I will say on that matter.

[SpaceMonk]

Proverbs 6:15 talking about a 'scoundrel and villain' says, "disaster will overtake him in an instant; he will suddenly be destroyed - without remedy".

So he must have done something that he's unable to be redeemed from.

 

The Hebrews verse is 6:4-6 " For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

That seems pretty clear that they were christian once and now aren't.

 

Also I think the 'unpardonable sin' was what Jesus warned about when the Pharisees claimed he cast out demons by the power of Beelzebub, ie. saying the work of the holy spirit is actually the devil or something.

I'd commit this if I could, and publicly, just to show christians I'm a lost cause to them so don't bother me anymore, but I just don't believe enough in either the holy spirit or the devil for it to actually count, I don't think...

[Caretaker]

Jen: I contend that the "Once saved, Always saved" line that come from those Protestant Christians is nothing more than a mind game.

 

In an endeavor to portray the faith as being perfect, they need to rationalize people who have left the faith, and the way they do that is to make claim that those people were never even in the faith to begin with.

 

We get those kind of people coming onto this forum every once in a while, almost like clockwork. But the problem with that, aside from the fact that they deduce that line of thinking from the Bible, which we do not consider to be authoritative, is that they come to this forum and make a broad, sweeping assumption about us, as though they somehow know our exact experiences with religion. The reality is that they don't know us. They don't know the details of how we were once in the faith, but are no longer. So without knowing such intimate details, they merely accuse us of having a half-assed approach.

 

People who are determined to portray Christianity as being perfect will stop at nothing to discredit anyone's negative experience of it.

[white_raven23]

Jen: I contend that the "Once saved, Always saved" line that come from those Protestant Christians is nothing more than a mind game.

 

In an endeavor to portray the faith as being perfect, they need to rationalize people who have left the faith, and the way they do that is to make claim that those people were never even in the faith to begin with.

 

Well the Jews had already cornered the market of religion being combined with racial identity. If you mom was a Jew, then you are a "Jew" regardless if you are an atheist or what your own beliefs happen to be.

 

An no christian group in it's right mind would go so far as to mimic too many of the practices associated by one of the big religious rivals. Just as you aren't going to see a christian group start a 5 times a day prayer ritual involving a special rug either.

 

So "Once saved, Always saved" is as close as they can get without getting Jew-like.

[riverbank]

Quote

Also I think the 'unpardonable sin' was what Jesus warned about when the Pharisees claimed he cast out demons by the power of Beelzebub, ie. saying the work of the holy spirit is actually the devil or something.

I'd commit this if I could, and publicly, just to show christians I'm a lost cause to them so don't bother me anymore, but I just don't believe enough in either the holy spirit or the devil for it to actually count, I don't think...

 

I blaspheme the holy spirit just because i get some sort of maybe perverse satisfaction out of doing it, i think..ie by calling him a devil, etc. But yeah at the same time I don't believe in them enough for it to mean that much. I read somewhere in a book once that a person who has totally blasphemed the Holy Spirit becomes filled with the demons of Satan. Well can't see any signs that I have those demons living inside me! Mind you that book was written by (the one and only) Benny Hinn.

[currentchristian]

This is a question mostly aimed at Christians, but anyone's input would be most welcome :-)

 

During my deconversion process, I had at least two people say to me that there is nothing that you can do that is too much for God to reach you, or words to that effect. Also on more than occasion, of course, I have had the "God will call you back to him" speech.

 

The question I have is, how do christians believe that there is nothing that you can do to take you away from God? Perhaps it is the verse that says Nothing shall separate us from the love of God that is in Jesus Christ our Lord?

 

Yeah there are verses in the bible that hint along these lines, yet other accounts in the bible refute this. What about Judas Iscariot? Or Ananias and Sapphira? Where was God's mercy for these people?

 

Also there is the scripture probably well known to us here at ex-christian.net from Hebrews saying that it is impossible for those who have been christians, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance (sorry don't have bible to hand to quote exact scripture). And of course there is the "unpardonable sin" - blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

 

I could go on, but I won't. Do you really believe that there is nothing that you do that goes too far for God to reach you?

 

We don't know what became of Judas Iscariot or Ananias and Sapphira. Their physical self died; that we know. But we know nothing of their spiritual self. If indeed there is a spiritual life that never ends, losing one's physical life is not terribly tragic. (Granted, I'd like to live to be 100 in good health, like probably most everyone else.) I think that if we do wake up after the demise of our physical bodies (as I certainly hope we do!), we'll realize all the suffering of this life was minimal, nothing compared to the glorious freedom we will enjoy in spirit.

 

--currentchristian in massachusetts

[Guest aginghipster]

This is a question mostly aimed at Christians, but anyone's input would be most welcome :-)

 

During my deconversion process, I had at least two people say to me that there is nothing that you can do that is too much for God to reach you, or words to that effect. Also on more than occasion, of course, I have had the "God will call you back to him" speech.

 

The question I have is, how do christians believe that there is nothing that you can do to take you away from God? Perhaps it is the verse that says Nothing shall separate us from the love of God that is in Jesus Christ our Lord?

 

Yeah there are verses in the bible that hint along these lines, yet other accounts in the bible refute this. What about Judas Iscariot? Or Ananias and Sapphira? Where was God's mercy for these people?

 

Also there is the scripture probably well known to us here at ex-christian.net from Hebrews saying that it is impossible for those who have been christians, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance (sorry don't have bible to hand to quote exact scripture). And of course there is the "unpardonable sin" - blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

 

I could go on, but I won't. Do you really believe that there is nothing that you do that goes too far for God to reach you?

 

We don't know what became of Judas Iscariot or Ananias and Sapphira. Their physical self died; that we know. But we know nothing of their spiritual self. If indeed there is a spiritual life that never ends, losing one's physical life is not terribly tragic. (Granted, I'd like to live to be 100 in good health, like probably most everyone else.) I think that if we do wake up after the demise of our physical bodies (as I certainly hope we do!), we'll realize all the suffering of this life was minimal, nothing compared to the glorious freedom we will enjoy in spirit.

 

--currentchristian in massachusetts

 

 

 

There is a book of Judas where apparantley he is led to Heaven. The same is a true for Pilate.

[Guest aginghipster]

The logic behind the Unforgiveable sin is if a person is that headstrong and deluded the he/she will never seek forgiveness. But if somebody is sincerely repentant and cries out to God they will be saved.

[chefranden]

We don't know what became of Judas Iscariot or Ananias and Sapphira. Their physical self died; that we know. But we know nothing of their spiritual self. If indeed there is a spiritual life that never ends, losing one's physical life is not terribly tragic. (Granted, I'd like to live to be 100 in good health, like probably most everyone else.) I think that if we do wake up after the demise of our physical bodies (as I certainly hope we do!), we'll realize all the suffering of this life was minimal, nothing compared to the glorious freedom we will enjoy in spirit.

--currentchristian in massachusetts

 

 

What is "glorious freedom"? Why be so vague about it?

 

I'll be more specific, "From dust ye have come; to dust ye will return."

 

Question, why did God kill Ananias and Sapphira, but not David? Woe unto those that find themselves in the hands of a schizophrenic God.