Guest Mike1945 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 The purpose of this forum is to tell about Bible scriptures or stories that you believed or believe as a Christian, but you had to, or still have to, make some kind of rationalization in your mind to remain a believer. By rationalize, I mean "to bring into accord with reason or cause something to seem reasonable" (Webster's Dict). I might add a note here. I will treat Christians with respect because I once was one for a long period of time. I will capitalize all the things you like capitalized, and when I quote scripture, it will be full text. At the same time, I expect Christian contributors to respect my beliefs, or more accurately, my lack of belief in your God. Anyway, I will kick this off with one of the many stories I had to rationalize to believe in God. It is found in Genesis. "And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech. And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there. And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter. And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth." (Genesis 11:1-9 - KJV) Several questions beg to be answered: Why did it piss God off that people were working in harmony together? Did God really believe they would be able to reach heaven? As difficult as it is to "find God" in this world, did "confounding" language make it easier? Why doesn't God shoot down our space capsules that are, presumably, closer to heaven? If the technology of that story scared God, what about today's technology? In order to buy into this story, the only rationalization is the old Christian cop-out that God works in mysterious ways. Okay. Your turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceMonk Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Yes, I had similar rationalisations to one of the problems I first saw in christianity. I always wondered what happened to people who lived in far away countries and never had the gospel preached to them. Do they go to hell when they die, since Jesus is the only way, and noone comes to the father except through him? Yet it wasn't their fault that they never heard... I just thought that God has probably worked it out somehow ...he can do anything. For almost two decades I had my eye out for a better explanation, but finally realised the thing that fit best is that the christian god doesn't exist, and there is no problem with never having heard of Jesus. I also realised that if Jahweh had mercy and let those ones into heaven who've never heard of the gospel, then that means it's possible to get there without 'accepting Jesus' in this life - so no need for evangelism (contradicting Jesus orders to do so) ...but if they aren't saved then Jahweh is unfair to have let them be born in that remote region, knowing the eternal fate that awaited them, in his hell. and I too wondered why Jahweh allowed spaceships to go into space, higher than any Tower of Babel ever went - but I rationalised that since America is a 'Christian Nation' that it was okay. - BUT, that's why Apollo 13 had such trouble - because 13 is the occult number for rebellion against God don't you know - and God was using it as a reminder for men not to get too arrogant... ...but I think a True Christian would tell you that the reason Jahweh was annoyed at the humans building the Tower of Babel wasn't because they could actually reach heaven, but because they were arrogant enough to challenge him, and he wasn't going to let them get away with that (not that the text actually says this was his motive BTW). Which smiting the ones involved would have sufficed I think, not dividing up entire humanity for ever... Actually, the Book of Jasher (mentioned in Joshua and 2 Samuel) says they even fired arrows into the heavens from on top of the tower to try and kill him - and the arrows even came down with blood on them, so they thought they had actually killed everyone in heaven... ...but it was just God playing tricks with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Usually, I had to try and rationalize the drivel about not resisting evil and turning the other cheek - submissive shit like that always rubs me the wrong way. All the verses about putting Gawd before all other loved ones were tough, too - even as a Xian, I had a hard time devaluing my loved ones, whom I could actually see, for a god I never saw. In time, all the verses stigmatizing sexuality fell under that category, too, since I was becoming sexually active yet I sure didn't feel "evil" about it... Soon, I found I was trying to rationalize the entire thing, which helped encourage me to kick it to the curb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike1945 Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 ...but I think a True Christian™ would tell you that the reason Jahweh was annoyed at the humans building the Tower of Babel wasn't because they could actually reach heaven, but because they were arrogant enough to challenge him, and he wasn't going to let them get away with that (not that the text actually says this was his motive BTW). I agree with you, SpaceMonk. That's one of the rationalizations I was thinking of. Actually, the Book of Jasher (mentioned in Joshua and 2 Samuel) says they even fired arrows into the heavens from on top of the tower to try and kill him - and the arrows even came down with blood on them, so they thought they had actually killed everyone in heaven... That's pretty cool. I've never heard that one. Thanks, SpaceMonk. All the verses about putting Gawd before all other loved ones were tough, too - even as a Xian, I had a hard time devaluing my loved ones, whom I could actually see, for a god I never saw. Yeah, that's a tough one, Varokhar. What kind of a God would tell you that. In time, all the verses stigmatizing sexuality fell under that category, too, since I was becoming sexually active yet I sure didn't feel "evil" about it... Ain't sex great!! Thanks Varokhar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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