Word of Faith Movement

[Lilith]

OK, I've been requested to talk a bit about my former faith. First and foremost, WoFers consider themselves Christians. It always comes as a bit of a shock to hear that the rest of xianity doesn't think the same of them. They, after all, follow the Word in Faith. What is not xian about that?

 

Here is the basis of their beliefs, taken from the Kenneth Copeland website:

 

Statement of Faith

 

 

    *      We believe in one God-Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Creator of all things.

 

    *      We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, was conceived of the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, was crucified, died, was buried, was resurrected, ascended into heaven, and is now seated at the right hand of God the Father and is true God and true man.

 

    *      We believe the Bible in its entirety to be the inspired Word of God and the infallible rule of faith and conduct.

 

    *      We believe in the resurrection of the dead, the eternal happiness of the saved, and the eternal punishment of the lost.

 

    *      We believe in personal salvation of believers through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

 

    *      We believe in sanctification through the Word of God and by the Holy Spirit, and we believe in personal holiness, purity of heart and life.

 

    *      We believe in divine healing, through faith in the Name of Jesus Christ, and that healing is included in the Redemption.

 

    *      We believe in water baptism, in the Baptism in the Holy Spirit as distinct from the New Birth, in speaking with tongues as the Spirit of God gives utterance (Acts 2:4), in the gifts of the Spirit, and the evidence of the fruit of the Spirit. We believe that all of these are available to believers.

 

    *      We believe in the Christian's hope-the soon-coming, personal return of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Now, any Word of Faither worth their salt will agree with this. Copeland was greatly influenced by 'Daddy Hagin', so his teachings run along the same lines.

 

Below, I have cut and paste supposed quotes made by WoF preachers. I will affirm or deny them as I believed them to be true when I was a xian. I am not stating my current beliefs, unless otherwise noted.

 

KENNETH COPELAND

 

Faith is a Force (like Star Wars).

(Spirit, Soul and Body, #01-0601, Tape #1)

The "like Star Wars" comment is either out of context or meant as tongue in cheek. But yes, Faith is considered a tangible force.

 

God did not create the world out of nothing, He used the Force of His Faith.

(Spirit, Soul and Body, #01-0601, Tape #1)

Yes, God used His faith to create the world and universe

 

Earth is a copy of the mother planet (Heaven).

(Following the Faith of Abraham, Tape #01-3001)

True

 

God's reason for creating Adam was to reproduce Himself.

(Following the Faith of Abraham, Tape #01-3001)

Misquoted. I don't recall this ever being taught and it directly contradicts scripture

 

Adam was not subordinate to God.

(Following the Faith of Abraham, Tape #01-3001)

I don't believe he actually said this....another misquote

 

God and Adam looked exactly alike.

(The Authority of the Believer IV; Tape #01-0304)

Again, false

 

Jesus and Adam looked, acted, and sounded exactly alike.

Taken out of context, if said at all

 

All of God's attributes and abilities were invested in Adam.

(The Authority of the Believer IV; Tape #01-0304)

True, but taken out of context

 

Adam was God manifested in the flesh.

(Following the Faith of Abraham, Tape #01-3001)

Plausible...but what is the context?

 

God made Adam the God of the earth.

(Following the Faith of Abraham; Tape #01-3001)

 

When Adam originally sinned he gave his god nature to Satan.

 

God could not intervene since He had made Adam the god of the earth. God was left on the outside looking in.

(Following the Faith of Abraham; Tape #01-3001)

Yes and no. It's a misquote and taken out of context

 

God is approximately 6'2" to 6'3" tall.

(Spirit, Soul, and Body; Tape #01-0601)

 

God weighs approximately 200 lbs.

(Spirit, Soul, and Body; Tape #01-0601)

This is absurd. False

 

Jesus existed only as an image in the heart of God, until such time as the prophets of the Old Testament could positively confess Jesus into existence through their constant prophecies.

(The Power of the Tongue, pp. 8-10)

This sounds right

 

Jesus death on the cross was not enough to save us.

(What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, Tape #00-0303)

(Believer's Voice of Victory, September 1991)

(Doctrinal Statement dated March 12, 1979)

True, but out of context

 

Jesus took on the nature of Satan when He was on the cross. (Jesus lost His divine nature).

(What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, Tape #00-0303)

(Classic Redemption, p.13)

True...sorta

 

Jesus was dragged down into the bowels of Hell where He was beaten and bruised by Satan and his demons until Jesus could finally fight His way out of Hell 3 days later.

(Believer's Voice of Victory, September 11, 1991)

(Classic Redemption, p.13)

WoF believes that Jesus decended into hell, but I've never heard any teaching about Jesus being beaten. It was always the demons who had their fannies kicked

 

Jesus was born-again.

(Substitution and Identification)

I kind of remember hearing this, but don't recall the reasoning behind it

 

Every Christian is a god.

(Force of Love; Tape #02-0028)

(Believer's Voice of Victory, broadcast July 9, 1987)

Taken out of context

 

There is a god class of beings.

(Force of Love; Tape #02-0028)

(Praise the Lord broadcast (TBN), recorded 2/5/86)

No (or taken out of context)

 

When we use the spiritual laws that God has set up, God must obey what we request.

True

 

God traveled to earth in a space ship called light.

This is news to me...

 

Satan wanted God to interject Himself into the world, which would be illegal, then Satan could turn God's light out.

(What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, Tape #00-0303)

Hmmm...I'd be interested to hear the context on this one

 

Adam lost the innate ability to create at the fall.

I don't think so....but may be taken out of context again

 

Any O.T. prophet could have attoned for our sins if they knew what Jesus knew.

(Substitution and Identification)

Meh...context

 

The (eternal) Abrahamic Covenant came to an end when Jesus died on the cross.

(What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, Tape #00-0303)

True

 

Jesus has a beginning and an end.

(What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, Tape #00-0303)

If he said this, it's in direct contradiction with the whole 'Alpha/Omega' thing he preaches about Jesus

 

Jesus has not remained the same, he has changed.

(What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, Tape #00-0303)

Don't know....never heard this

 

The plan of redemption BEGAN when Jesus said "It is FINISHED".

(Classic Redemption, p.13)

I could see this being said

 

Jesus was reborn in the pits of hell.

(What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, Tape #00-0303)

Analogy, perhaps...

 

Jesus is in a higher position now than before He died on the cross.

(What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, Tape #00-0303)

True

 

The biggest failure in the whole Bible is God.

(Praise-a-thon, (TBN) recorded 1988

You gotta be kidding me....No. False.

 

BENNY HINN

 

God has 9 parts (tri-theistic). A. God has a body, soul and spirit. B. Jesus has a body, soul and spirit. C. Holy Spirit has a body, soul and spirit.

(Benny Hinn broadcast, recorded 10/13/90)

I think Hinn preaches this, but WoF people I know don't believe it

 

Christians are little messiahs.

Yes, he preaches this, but again, outside mainstream WoF

 

Christians are little gods.

(Praise-a-thon (TBN), recorded November 1990)

(Our position in Christ, Tape #AO31190-1)

See above

 

Jesus at His death became one with Satan.

(Benny Hinn broadcast, recorded 12/15/90)

He may have said it, but it's utterly false for WoF

 

Poverty comes from Hell.

True

 

Prosperity comes from Heaven.

True

 

Adam had complete dominion over the earth and all it contains. True A. Adam could fly like a bird. B. Adam could swim underwater and breathe like a fish.

A. False B. False

 

Adam went to the moon.

Huh??...I never said Hinn was a true WoF'r

 

Adam walked on water.

No

 

Adam was a super being, He was the first superman that lived.

Whatever

 

Adam had dominion over the sun, moon & stars.

 

Christians do not have Christ in their hearts.

I cannot imagine what he is referring to here, if he said it at all

 

Sow a big seed, when you confess it, you are activating the supernatural forces of God.

(Praise-a-thon (TBN), recorded November 1990)

Absolutely, positively true. GiveGiveGive and it will be given unto you, pressed down, shaken together and running over shall....blah blah blah

 

When you don't give money, it shows that you have the devil's nature.

(Praise-a-thon (TBN), recorded 4/21/91)

Well, Copeland or Hagin would never word it quite like this. Hinn would.

 

Wants to use Holy Ghost machine gun to kill Heresy Hunters.

(Praise-a-thon (TBN), 11/8/90)

He likes to think he has clever phrases.....

 

PAUL CROUCH

 

Christians are little gods.

(Praise the Lord (TBN), redorded 7/7/86)

Already discussed

 

God draws no distinction between Himself and us.

 

God opens up the union of the very godhead (Trinity), and brings us into it.

(Praise-a-thon (TBN), November 1990)

 

Paul Crouch will shoot heresy hunters (theology) if God doesn't

(Praise-a-thon (TBN), 4/2/91)

 

Heresy hunters (theology) are to go to Hell.

(Praise-a-thon (TBN), 4/2/91)

 

Does not want to see the ugly faces of heresy hunters (theology).

(Praise-a-thon (TBN), 4/2/91)

The rest all sounds like "filler phrases" some preachers like to use....not necessarily sound doctrine, however

 

JOHN AVANZINI

 

Jesus had an expensive ministry.

(Praise the Lord (TBN), 9/15/88)

True

 

That cross proved a 3-fold dimension of redemption.

(Praise the Lord (TBN), 9/15/88)

True

 

30, 60, 100 fold

(Believer's Voice of Victory, (TBN) 3/7/91)

Don't you love the context here?? It's referring to return on your seed money

 

Jesus had a nice house, a big house.

(Believer's Voice of Victory, (TBN) 1/20/91)

Probably spoken by someone, yes

 

Jesus wore designer clothes.

(Believer's Voice of Victory, (TBN) 1/20/91)

True

 

Paul had the kind of money that could stop up justice.

(Believer's Voice of Victory, (TBN) 1/20/91)

Not sure...would like to see context

 

If you have a treasurer, that means you have a lot of money.

(Praise the Lord (TBN), 9/15/88)

True

 

Jesus was handling big money.

(Praise the Lord (TBN), 9/15/88)

True

 

KENNETH HAGIN

 

We (the church) are Christ.

(As Christ is -- So are we, Tape #44H06)

False. Hagin does not preach this. He preaches that the Church is the BRIDE, not Christ.

 

Christ's physical death on the cross was not enough to save us.

(How Jesus obtained His Name, Tape 44H01"

Taken out of context

 

Jesus tasted spiritual death.

(How Jesus obtained His Name, Tape 44H01"

True

 

ROBERT TILTON

 

Being poor is a sin.

(Success in Life, recorded 12/2/90)

Inferred in my circles, but never spoken too loudly

 

Forget your church.

(Success in Life, recorded 3/4/91)

context?

 

The only time people were poor in the Bible is when they were under a curse.

(Success in Life, recorded 12/2/90)

True

 

Do not say "Lord if it be thy will".

(Success in Life, recorded 12/14/91)

True, but out of context

 

FRED PRICE

 

You can have what you say.

(Praise the Lord (TBN), 9/21/90)

True

 

You can't glorify God if you are sick.

(Is God Glorified Through Sickness?, Tape #FP605)

Perhaps said...yes

 

Man has made God violate His own word.

Huh?....May have said it. Not true

 

Have a "Rolls Royce" Faith.

(Praise the Lord (TBN), 9/21/90)

Yes

 

God has displeasure in poverty.

(Ever Increasing Faith, recorded 11/16/90)

Yes

 

Jesus and the disciples were rich, only rich people could take off for 3.5 years.

(Ever Increasing Faith, recorded 11/23/90)

True

 

If you want me to expound on any of these, just let me know which ones.

[pandora]

Wow, that'a a lot! Thanks. Veeeery interesting version of Christianity. I knew you might discard some of the absurd notions, but it is still interesting how different even the basic stuff is.

[pandora]

How did you deal with the "being poor is a sin?" How did your church deal with modest income families? Were they helped, or encouraged to have more faith and prosperity will come?

[thomas]

OK, I've been requested to talk a bit about my former faith.  First and foremost, WoFers consider themselves Christians.  It always comes as a bit of a shock to hear that the rest of xianity doesn't think the same of them.  They, after all, follow the Word in Faith.  What is not xian about that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Apellation

 

The mainstream protestant denominations are somehow able to agree upon, what they think is appropriate and inappropriate forms of Christianity. When I was a Christian, I was quite sure that Jehovah’s Witnesses generally were not Christians, and that people in the Faith movement were Christians who had been deceived by false teaching. But as I have left the Christian Faith, it has become very clear to me, that all forms of Christianity (mainline or not) basically are abusive. They are not so different at all.

 

But some groups a worse than others. In my view, the worst groups have very emotional services with lots of miracles, preach a personal relationship with God, preach spiritual power/holiness, read the bible literally and encourage their members to trust in God (and the leaders), instead of using their own ability to think. And I think, that WoFers belongs to that category.

 

So if you have to go to Church, the best ones are the traditional kind with low degree of personal involvement, but best of all of course, is not to go to Church at all.

[Ouroboros]

appellation,

 

 

GASP! You came from Word of Faith!!!

 

I'm from Livets Ord in Uppsala, Sweden, "Livets Ord" = "Word of Faith".

Maybe you've heard about it. I went to bible school there.

 

I know most of the books, and read most of them too!

 

Kenneth Copeland, Hagin, the whole bunch!

 

I'm actually glad someone else here comes from the cult, and oh, there's so much atrocities with that faith, it's so scary.

[Lilith]

How did you deal with the "being poor is a sin?"  How did your church deal with modest income families?  Were they helped, or encouraged to have more faith and prosperity will come?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The church always, always helped. Yet at the same time, we were encouraged to have more faith and search our hearts for any hidden sin.

[Lilith]

Wow, that'a a lot!  Thanks.  Veeeery interesting version of Christianity.  I knew you might discard some of the absurd notions, but it is still interesting how different even the basic stuff is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Tell me what differences you see....

[Lilith]

Apellation

 

The mainstream protestant denominations are somehow able to agree upon, what they think is appropriate and inappropriate forms of Christianity. When I was a Christian, I was quite sure that Jehovah’s Witnesses generally were not Christians, and that people in the Faith movement were Christians who had been deceived by false teaching. But as I have left the Christian Faith, it has become very clear to me, that all forms of Christianity (mainline or not) basically are abusive. They are not so different at all.

 

But some groups a worse than others. In my view, the worst groups have very emotional services with lots of miracles, preach a personal relationship with God, preach spiritual power/holiness, read the bible literally and encourage their members to trust in God (and the leaders), instead of using their own ability to think. And I think, that WoFers belongs to that category.

 

So if you have to go to Church, the best ones are the traditional kind with low degree of personal involvement, but best of all of course, is not to go to Church at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

My husband will never agree to a traditional church. Never. I will opt out of going at all, I guess.

[Lilith]

appellation,

GASP! You came from Word of Faith!!!

 

I'm from Livets Ord in Uppsala, Sweden, "Livets Ord" = "Word of Faith".

Maybe you've heard about it. I went to bible school there.

 

I know most of the books, and read most of them too!

 

Kenneth Copeland, Hagin, the whole bunch!

 

I'm actually glad someone else here comes from the cult, and oh, there's so much atrocities with that faith, it's so scary.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've never heard of "Livets Ord".....nice to meet another former WoF'r!!

[Ouroboros]

Oh, you haven't, darn.

 

Have you ever had Ulf Ekman or any swedish preacher over to your church?

 

This is soo cool. I actually didn't expect to find anyone here with the same background.

 

Our pastor, Ulf Ekman studied under Kenneth Hagin and Oral Roberts Sr, and the whole gang. He started Livets Ord 1984, and I joined 1986, went to bible school, and was active until 1996, the time I left and moved here to US.

 

We had all the bigshots over there during summer and new years conferences.

I've heard Copeland, Hagin, Roberts and I just can't remember all of them anymore.

 

It's the biggest conference in Europe (at least used to be). We had americans coming over to go to the bible school each year. I met plenty of americans during those years. They set up a circus tent fitting 10-15 thousand people during the summer conference.

 

People came from the whole world, the last year I was there, they had people from 22+ countries.

[Amethyst]

Wow. No wonder most Christians didn't agree...the theology sounds pretty non-traditional. There are probably stranger sects, but I hadn't heard of that one before.

[thomas]

Oh, you haven't, darn.

 

Have you ever had Ulf Ekman or any swedish preacher over to your church?

 

This is soo cool. I actually didn't expect to find anyone here with the same background.

 

Our pastor, Ulf Ekman studied under Kenneth Hagin and Oral Roberts Sr, and the whole gang. He started Livets Ord 1984, and I joined 1986, went to bible school, and was active until 1996, the time I left and moved here to US.

 

We had all the bigshots over there during summer and new years conferences.

I've heard Copeland, Hagin, Roberts and I just can't remember all of them anymore.

 

It's the biggest conference in Europe (at least used to be). We had americans coming over to go to the bible school each year. I met plenty of americans during those years. They set up a circus tent fitting 10-15 thousand people during the summer conference.

 

People came from the whole world, the last year I was there, they had people from 22+ countries.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

HanSolo

 

I know about Livets Ord. My sister has been involved in the Danish faith movement, and has tried to impact me with their teachings. Among other things, she has shown me a video tape from a big conference in Uppsala with Ulf Ekman and Benny Hinn. At that time, I was in a pentecostal church, and was very impressed by all the miracles on that tape.

 

But nevertheless, she did not convince me. I thought they were Christians who had been misguided. The irony was, that my own form of Christianity, the pentecostal church, also was a very abusive form of Christianity, but at that time, I did not see that.

[pandora]

Tell me what differences you see....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The main thing is that you can have complete control of your life through perfect faith. It was taught metaphorically at my church, and it was stressed that it was not material.

 

That we are somehow God on earth... I know I don't understand it right, please explain it...

 

So perhaps my own version of the basics is skewed by my own experiences as well.

[Lilith]

Oh, you haven't, darn.

 

Have you ever had Ulf Ekman or any swedish preacher over to your church?

 

This is soo cool. I actually didn't expect to find anyone here with the same background.

 

Our pastor, Ulf Ekman studied under Kenneth Hagin and Oral Roberts Sr, and the whole gang. He started Livets Ord 1984, and I joined 1986, went to bible school, and was active until 1996, the time I left and moved here to US.

 

We had all the bigshots over there during summer and new years conferences.

I've heard Copeland, Hagin, Roberts and I just can't remember all of them anymore.

 

It's the biggest conference in Europe (at least used to be). We had americans coming over to go to the bible school each year. I met plenty of americans during those years. They set up a circus tent fitting 10-15 thousand people during the summer conference.

 

People came from the whole world, the last year I was there, they had people from 22+ countries.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Ulf Elkman sounds familiar....The furthest I ever really got "outside the US" was the Toronto Revival (not there phyically, just heard about it) and that ultra big church in Korea.....name of both church and preacher slip my mind at the moment.

[Lilith]

The main thing is that you can have complete control of your life through perfect faith.

Yes, but the catch is you have to pray within God's will. Circular reasoning at its finest.

 

That we are somehow God on earth... I know I don't understand it right, please explain it...

We are made in the image of God. We have the capacity for the same faith that Jesus himself had. We are not "Gods" in the sense we are to be worshipped, but in the sense that we have the same power of faith for healings and other miracles, through the Holy Spirit.

 

Does that make a little more sense? Let me know if you need further clarification or want to discuss it further. I'm kinda enjoying this.

 

So perhaps my own version of the basics is skewed by my own experiences as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Aren't all versions skewed by experience?

[Ouroboros]

I’ve finally figured out how the

button works under each message! Coool.

 

HanSolo

 

I know about Livets Ord. My sister has been involved in the Danish faith movement, and has tried to impact me with their teachings. Among other things, she has shown me a video tape from a big conference in Uppsala with Ulf Ekman and Benny Hinn. At that time, I was in a pentecostal church, and was very impressed by all the miracles on that tape.

 

But nevertheless, she did not convince me. I thought they were Christians who had been misguided. The irony was, that my own form of Christianity, the pentecostal church, also was a very abusive form of Christianity, but at that time, I did not see that.

 

Oh, Miracles! HAH! I went to … lets see… all together must be over 600 meetings in that congregation and that doesn’t include bible studies and prayer meetings. Many meetings were extremely lively and loud, and sometimes there were healings, but what bothered me then and still now, is that I never managed to go to a meeting where a crippled walked! We took our son to Livets Ord, and Ulf Ekman prayed for my son with the whole congregation’s faithful support, and that’s around 2000 people. Now 2000 people with strong faith, together with a preacher that are “anointed and appointed by God himself” couldn’t make the miracle happen. And I tell you, I wanted it soooo badly, I believed something would happen, but nothing did.

 

 

Yes, but the catch is you have to pray within God's will.  Circular reasoning at its finest.

We are made in the image of God.  We have the capacity for the same faith that Jesus himself had.  We are not "Gods" in the sense we are to be worshipped, but in the sense that we have the same power of faith for healings and other miracles, through the Holy Spirit. 

 

Does that make a little more sense?  Let me know if you need further clarification or want to discuss it further.  I'm kinda enjoying this. 

Aren't all versions skewed by experience? 

 

Since it been so many years ago, things have faded away, but you’re right, it is kinda fun. It feels really relieving to talk about the faith movement, but not being limited in thinking critical. Finally you can dissect and analyze the dogma with a 100 kW Lamp.

[thomas]

Oh, Miracles! HAH! I went to … lets see… all together must be over 600 meetings in that congregation and that doesn’t include bible studies and prayer meetings. Many meetings were extremely lively and loud, and sometimes there were healings, but what bothered me then and still now, is that I never managed to go to a meeting where a crippled walked! We took our son to Livets Ord, and Ulf Ekman prayed for my son with the whole congregation’s faithful support, and that’s around 2000 people. Now 2000 people with strong faith, together with a preacher that are “anointed and appointed by God himself” couldn’t make the miracle happen. And I tell you, I wanted it soooo badly, I believed something would happen, but nothing did.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

HanSolo

 

I think I can imagine some of the pain, hope and disappointment you have been through. It must have been awful.

 

As you probably are well aware, theologians have a nice name for it - they call it “the problem of evil”. And isn’t it hypocritical? Instead of admitting all the inconsistencies, they so to speak hide them under nice names.

[Ouroboros]

What's so strange is that WoF (woff woff), never really gave me a good answer to the reason of evil. The Devil was blamed all the time, so it made you paranoid. And yet with all the faith and prayer, the Devil had such power that it was incomprehensible. Nothing really helped!

 

Like I said in another thread; doubt is a stronger force than faith. Only one un-believer can counteract the faith of a plentitude of believers. Jesus was wrong. There is no mustard seeds of faith, but there is mustard seeds of doubt. And the mountain is religion, and it was moved by doubt.

[thomas]

What's so strange is that WoF (woff woff), never really gave me a good answer to the reason of evil. The Devil was blamed all the time, so it made you paranoid.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Although theologians and others has debated it since Augustin (or so), there are no real answers within the concepts of Christianity. (Jews and Muslims have the same discussion). I just did a google serach for "problen of evil", and it gave 133000 hits. But I am quite sure that most of it just is bla, bla, bla

[Ouroboros]

Thomas,

 

HAHA! This is the first time I noticed your "Gods", Pippi and Emil.

I grew up with those characters.

 

Astrid Lindgren was an extraordinary person, she was smart as hell (excuse me Astrid for using foul language), but she was incredible smart and witty. Well respected even by politicians. She could outtalk anyone. Kind of miss her kind of people, there should be more of her….

 

 

Är allt bra i Europa? Hälsa Scandinavien from mig.

[thomas]

Thomas,

 

HAHA! This is the first time I noticed your "Gods", Pippi and Emil.

I grew up with those characters.

 

Astrid Lindgren was an extraordinary person, she was smart as hell (excuse me Astrid for using foul language), but she was incredible smart and witty. Well respected even by politicians. She could outtalk anyone. Kind of miss her kind of people, there should be more of her….

Är allt bra i Europa? Hälsa Scandinavien from mig.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have just changed my "Gods", so it is probably the first time for you to see it. Astrid Lindgren was very popular here too. I loved her stories so much, and now we read them for our children.

 

Expect for problems with the new EU treaty, everything here is fine. I will give your regards to Scandinavia.

[Lilith]

I’ve finally figured out how the

button works under each message! Coool.

Oh, Miracles! HAH! I went to … lets see… all together must be over 600 meetings in that congregation and that doesn’t include bible studies and prayer meetings. Many meetings were extremely lively and loud, and sometimes there were healings, but what bothered me then and still now, is that I never managed to go to a meeting where a crippled walked! We took our son to Livets Ord, and Ulf Ekman prayed for my son with the whole congregation’s faithful support, and that’s around 2000 people. Now 2000 people with strong faith, together with a preacher that are “anointed and appointed by God himself” couldn’t make the miracle happen. And I tell you, I wanted it soooo badly, I believed something would happen, but nothing did.

Since it been so many years ago, things have faded away, but you’re right, it is kinda fun. It feels really relieving to talk about the faith movement, but not being limited in thinking critical. Finally you can dissect and analyze the dogma with a 100 kW Lamp.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I remember one service...specifically a healing service that we had been building up to for weeks. The series itself lasted at least 2 weeks, IIRC. Anyway, we had the Assistant Musical Director's son in attendance. He had been listening all this time about faith and healing. The boy had a deformed hand (from birth) in which he only had a couple of fingers and it was constantly in a brace.

 

So this kid steps forward to receive his healing. I held my breath cuz I knew this was make it or break it time. I fully believed the boy could be healed, until I looked at the faces on the platform. Every one of the adults up there looked crestfallen. The disappointment and sadness in their eyes said a million times over, they didn't believe the boy would be healed. My heart sank too, cuz I knew with that kind of lack of faith, he would not be receiving a new limb that night. It broke my heart.

 

Astrid Lindgren was an extraordinary person, she was smart as hell (excuse me Astrid for using foul language), but she was incredible smart and witty. Well respected even by politicians. She could outtalk anyone. Kind of miss her kind of people, there should be more of her….

 

My grandmother's given name was Astrid. Her mother's name was Limpi. I am mostly Scandanavian.

[Ouroboros]

I remember one service...specifically a healing service that we had been building up to for weeks.  The series itself lasted at least 2 weeks, IIRC.  Anyway, we had the Assistant Musical Director's son in attendance.  He had been listening all this time about faith and healing.  The boy had a deformed hand (from birth) in which he only had a couple of fingers and it was constantly in a brace.

 

So this kid steps forward to receive his healing.  I held my breath cuz I knew this was make it or break it time.  I fully believed the boy could be healed, until I looked at the faces on the platform.  Every one of the adults up there looked crestfallen.  The disappointment and sadness in their eyes said a million times over, they didn't believe the boy would be healed.  My heart sank too, cuz I knew with that kind of lack of faith, he would not be receiving a new limb that night.  It broke my heart.

 

It breaks mine too.

 

Something that religion didn't give me though is the ability to accept fate and deal with it. Work out the problems with your own might and mind. Religion was a way of cheating out on thought and responsibility.

 

This family maybe would have less stress and sorrow, I they went to counseling with a psychiatrist, or so. The hardest part is to accept what you have, but you never do it if you expect to get something for free tomorrow. It’s like a gambling addict thinking he will hit the next jackpot, but he only gets deeper into debt.

 

 

My grandmother's given name was Astrid.  Her mother's name was Limpi.  I am mostly Scandanavian.  

 

Yay Scandinavia!!!

 

Limpi. That’s a different name, was that from Scandinavia too?

[Lilith]

Yay Scandinavia!!!

 

Limpi. That’s a different name, was that from Scandinavia too?

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I think so.....Norweigan??

[Ouroboros]

I think so.....Norweigan??

 

That, or Danish or Finnish, I've never heard it in Sweden.

 

Could it be a rewritten name, that it was something else from start and made simplified?