Is God A Sadistic Monster?

[Pegasus_Voyager]

“Is God a Sadistic Monster?”

 

.

A judge brings a frightened 18 year old girl before his court. The

girl has committed no "crimes" per se, but has committed many of the

same "sins" that an average young woman of her age might have

committed in the course of her short life, i.e. white lies,

masturbation, "mouthing off" to parents and authority figures,

cheating in school, and a host of other petty misdeeds. The judge

tells the girl that she will be allowed no legal representation. No

one will be permitted to speak on her behalf but she herself. The

judge tells this girl that although her "crimes" are minor, she will

be taken out, doused in gasoline, set ablaze, and then thrown into a

vat of sulfuric acid while she is still burning. Then he, the judge,

will stand over this vat and listen to her beg and scream for mercy

until she finally expires in excruciating inconceivable agony.

NOW, this is going to require an inordinate amount of objectivity on

the part of any fundamentalist or evangelical reading this, which, having

been one, I know is probably beyond your capacity. However, in all

honesty, what would society call this judge? righteous? pure?

merciful? PLEASE!! Don't delude yourself! It is a safe bet that

society would probably call him a sadistic beast not worthy to live on

the same planet with decent human beings!

 

Now, this same girl appears before "The Sinner's Judgment" with

the Honorable Judge Jesus H. Christ presiding! He also tells her that she

will not be allowed legal representation. For no other reason than

because she failed to "pray” the "sinners prayer", this merciless

brute of a God (I use God and Jesus interchangeably because Christians

consider them the same) will throw this terrified young, barely beyond

adolescence (but beyond the scripturally ambiguous "age of

accountability"), girl into the "Lake of Fire", a fate theorized to be approximately

one million times more agonizing than what the Earthly judge subjected

her to.

 

Now, what makes God, Jesus, whomever, any different than this

Earthly judge? How is God different morally? Ultimately, there is no difference, and I have, in fact, "called the Emperor naked". For God

to throw ANY person into eternal fire where they will never die and

never know respite, and scream and wail while God and Jesus treat it

as "music to their ears" is such a morally unconscionable act it

beggars description!! The fact is, God, in my opinion, is a two-faced hypocrite

who employs a "double standard". He claims not to tolerate cruelty and inhumanity, and he will become the most inhumane, vicious, merciless,

animalistic and brutal sadistic monster ever in history when, on Judgment Day, he throws the billions of "lost souls" into this eternal barbecue pit.

 

Now, I would like to confront the most common (and inherently inane and

ludicrous) arguments that Christians use to get God "off the hook" to

keep him from appearing as I have described:

 

ARGUMENT 1:”God doesn’t send anyone to Hell, they send themselves there!”

 

MY RESPONSE: Okay, so you're saying that if a person who dies "in their sins" and stands before God and takes a good hard look at Hell, that he/she has the option to "decline"? Please! Get real! The Bible clearly states that the lost

will be "cast" (the operative word here is "cast", not briskly walked,

not gingerly ran, not eagerly waltzed) into the Lake of Fire! Now,

lest you accuse me of being obtuse, I do understand what you're

endeavoring to say, that being, that if a person "rejects Christ as

their Lord and savior, doesn't repent of their sins,

yadda, yadda, yadda," they have, by default, chosen of their own free

will to go to Hell.

 

The flaw in this "defense" is that it is a twist on the warnings that

Draconian tyrants, emperors, and dictators have given their subjects

since time immemorial. That as long as you play the game by their

rules, they won't subject you to unspeakable torture! However, it

doesn't make Hell one degree cooler whether or not God decides or the "sinners"

decide where they spend eternity. It is still a morally unconscionable

Draconian punishment. It's analogous to saying that if a father

decides to allow his child to voluntarily dive into a shark-infested

pool as a self-inflicted punishment for "wrong-doing", then that gets dear

old Dad "off the hook".

 

ARGUMENT 2: "The Lake of Fire was designed and prepared for the Devil and his angels, not people"

 

MY RESPONSE: Okay, but regardless, God intends to throw the lost into it. It

may not "originally" have been meant for people, but God, in his infinite

wisdom and mercy, has decided to take "the more, the merrier"

approach, and use it as the primary method of eternal punishment for

sinners. He has therefore, by default, designed it for both Devils and

people.

 

ARGUMENT 3:”God made a way of escape from Hell through the propitiation of sins provided for by his son, Jesus Christ”

 

MY RESPONSE: In other words, God is saying you either embrace his paradigm, or you suffer a torturous and excruciatingly painful punishment for all eternity. If this isn’t coercion, I don’t know what is! God essentially promises mankind free will, then tells him that the only acceptable lifestyle and belief system on the planet Earth to gain his acceptance and avoid torture is Christianity. In essence, mankind may be technically free to do as he wishes, but God, by default, has put him under duress. If the Christian paradigm is, in fact, true, then free will is a myth. God’s threat of Hell for sinners is ultimately no different than the Spanish Inquisitor’s threat to “heretics’ of being tortured and being burned at the stake if they don’t recant or convert.

 

My challenge to the Evangelical Christian community is this: How is God any different morally from the Earthly judge? How is God any different than Adolf Hitler throwing Jews into ovens? How is God any different than Torquemada? Are you going to argue that God created us all, so he can do to us what he pleases? My response to that is that you are presenting the “might makes right” argument. One of my favorite episodes of “Star Trek: The Next Generation” was “The Offspring”. In this episode, Commander Data, the sentient android, created a “child” android in the form of a female named "Lull". Captain Picard reprimanded Data for not informing him of this project. Data responded by asking if he wanted him to deactivate Lull. Picard’s response was along the lines of: “Data, this is a sentient life form! You don’t just turn it off off like some appliance!” Could it be that the humanist writer of this Star Trek episode understood the value of sentient life even better than Christians, who believe that eternal damnation in a pit of fire where you will scream in agony and excruciating pain for all eternity is a perfectly morally conscionable, justifiable and just act?

 

 

Copyright©Robert T. Permar, July 22, 2006

 

YOU MAY COPY AND RE-DISTRIBUTE IT, PROVIDING I AM CREDITED AS THE AUTHOR

[currentchristian]

“Is God a Sadistic Monster?”

 

You make a very compelling case and I would find it beneficial if every hellfire-breathing Christian would read this. Please remember, though, that most who call themselves Christians today do not believe in a literal hellfire and many argue that this (my view) abominable doctrine of eternal torment is non-Christian and non-biblical. I'm writing this so that we keep in mind that we can not lump all Christians (or all Jews or all Muslims or all Atheists) together in the same boat on any issue under the sun.

 

-CC in MA

[Vigile]

most who call themselves Christians today do not believe in a literal hellfire

 

Are you talking about the typical American who calls themself a Christian, or the typical bible believer who darkens the door of church every Sunday. If it's the later, I'm not so sure you are correct. Pretty much everyone I went to church with believed in a literal hell and I did my fair share of church hopping toward the end of my faith.

[currentchristian]

most who call themselves Christians today do not believe in a literal hellfire

 

Are you talking about the typical American who calls themself a Christian, or the typical bible believer who darkens the door of church every Sunday. If it's the later, I'm not so sure you are correct. Pretty much everyone I went to church with believed in a literal hell and I did my fair share of church hopping toward the end of my faith.

 

You make a good distinction. My point was about those who call themselves Christian. Those who show up every Sunday morning, Sunday night and midweek are much more likely to say they believe in a literal hellfire. But, you know what's funny about that? I don't know anyone, anyone, who ever really believed that their loved one was suffering in hell. It seems that hellfire is for other people, not their loved ones, no matter how crass the person was or demented or "without God." It seems to me that if you really, really, really get down to it, most people who even claim they believe in a literal hellfire of eternal torment and suffering do not.

 

-CC in MA

[Vigile]

It seems to me that if you really, really, really get down to it, most people who even claim they believe in a literal hellfire of eternal torment and suffering do not.

 

I agree. They just pay it lip service. If they truly believed in it it would turn their lives upside down. Thank heavens they don't or they would make the rest of us miserable.

[webmdave]

most who call themselves Christians today do not believe in a literal hellfire

 

Are you talking about the typical American who calls themself a Christian, or the typical bible believer who darkens the door of church every Sunday. If it's the later, I'm not so sure you are correct. Pretty much everyone I went to church with believed in a literal hell and I did my fair share of church hopping toward the end of my faith.

 

Same here.

[LostOrFound]

Well-written, Mr. Permar.

 

I've noted several of your posts and enjoyed each. Please continue to share your thoughts and experience with us!

 

I think I recall that you mentioned that you were a preacher. Is that right? As a former SBC and then PCA preacher, I really relate to your writings... perhaps we have similar backgrounds which may explain the empathy felt.

 

At any rate, I'm glad you've joined this little community of Ex-Christians.

 

EDIT: I've just seen your letters and replies posted at triablogue... would you care to comment on all that and your 'history'?

 

most who call themselves Christians today do not believe in a literal hellfire

 

Are you talking about the typical American who calls themself a Christian, or the typical bible believer who darkens the door of church every Sunday. If it's the later, I'm not so sure you are correct. Pretty much everyone I went to church with believed in a literal hell and I did my fair share of church hopping toward the end of my faith.

 

You make a good distinction. My point was about those who call themselves Christian. Those who show up every Sunday morning, Sunday night and midweek are much more likely to say they believe in a literal hellfire. But, you know what's funny about that? I don't know anyone, anyone, who ever really believed that their loved one was suffering in hell. It seems that hellfire is for other people, not their loved ones, no matter how crass the person was or demented or "without God." It seems to me that if you really, really, really get down to it, most people who even claim they believe in a literal hellfire of eternal torment and suffering do not.

 

-CC in MA

 

Your point about people not believing their loved ones are in hell is one that I took note of long before my deconversion. I commented on it to my wife a few times but never to anyone else. Oddly, almost without exception, the people closest to the deceased family member would share with me that "at the end, they confessed Christ as Lord and Savior". Oh, hallelujah!!

 

Now, if the family wasn't particularly fond of the person, they would allow that he is now suffering in hell. They would fake a tear but they looked like they were pretty damned happy he was burning!

[Pegasus_Voyager]

“Is God a Sadistic Monster?”

 

You make a very compelling case and I would find it beneficial if every hellfire-breathing Christian would read this. Please remember, though, that most who call themselves Christians today do not believe in a literal hellfire and many argue that this (my view) abominable doctrine of eternal torment is non-Christian and non-biblical. I'm writing this so that we keep in mind that we can not lump all Christians (or all Jews or all Muslims or all Atheists) together in the same boat on any issue under the sun.

 

-CC in MA

 

Question for you, currentchristian: If there is no Hell, then what did Jesus Christ die to save you from? A warm jacuzzi?

 

PV

[currentchristian]

Your point about people not believing their loved ones are in hell is one that I took note of long before my deconversion. I commented on it to my wife a few times but never to anyone else. Oddly, almost without exception, the people closest to the deceased family member would share with me that "at the end, they confessed Christ as Lord and Savior". Oh, hallelujah!!

 

Yes, I have heard of many such wonderful death-bed conversions, too. That's perfectly fine, but those who believe in hellfire torment need to think about why it is that their loved ones aren't there, while other's loved ones apparantly are!

 

I stopped believing in hell when I was in my very early 20's. I don't remember now if I stopped embracing that teaching right before or right after I withdrew my membership for the A/G at age 21, but whatever I was "in the closet" about not believing in hell for a few years before I was brave enough to call that doctrine unbiblical and irrational.

 

-CC in MA

[Pegasus_Voyager]

Well-written, Mr. Permar.

 

I've noted several of your posts and enjoyed each. Please continue to share your thoughts and experience with us!

 

I think I recall that you mentioned that you were a preacher. Is that right? As a former SBC and then PCA preacher, I really relate to your writings... perhaps we have similar backgrounds which may explain the empathy felt.

 

At any rate, I'm glad you've joined this little community of Ex-Christians.

 

EDIT: I've just seen your letters and replies posted at triablogue... would you care to comment on all that and your 'history'?

 

most who call themselves Christians today do not believe in a literal hellfire

 

Are you talking about the typical American who calls themself a Christian, or the typical bible believer who darkens the door of church every Sunday. If it's the later, I'm not so sure you are correct. Pretty much everyone I went to church with believed in a literal hell and I did my fair share of church hopping toward the end of my faith.

 

You make a good distinction. My point was about those who call themselves Christian. Those who show up every Sunday morning, Sunday night and midweek are much more likely to say they believe in a literal hellfire. But, you know what's funny about that? I don't know anyone, anyone, who ever really believed that their loved one was suffering in hell. It seems that hellfire is for other people, not their loved ones, no matter how crass the person was or demented or "without God." It seems to me that if you really, really, really get down to it, most people who even claim they believe in a literal hellfire of eternal torment and suffering do not.

 

-CC in MA

 

Your point about people not believing their loved ones are in hell is one that I took note of long before my deconversion. I commented on it to my wife a few times but never to anyone else. Oddly, almost without exception, the people closest to the deceased family member would share with me that "at the end, they confessed Christ as Lord and Savior". Oh, hallelujah!!

 

Now, if the family wasn't particularly fond of the person, they would allow that he is now suffering in hell. They would fake a tear but they looked like they were pretty damned happy he was burning!

 

Hi, Lost or Found,

 

No, I wasn't a preacher. I was raised by a Charismatic preacher. I was a former US Army Captain, aviation logistics officer, and helicopter pilot. As far as triablogue, I hadn't heard of it before now. I visited it and could only find an insensitive reference to how only a person who was not in his right mind would reject Christianity, referring to to my post on John Loftus' blog. Can you tell me specifically where on triablogue my letters are? The blinking thing has a bazillion threads, and I can't sift through them.

 

PV

[currentchristian]

Question for you, currentchristian: If there is no Hell, then what did Jesus Christ die to save you from? A warm jacuzzi?

PV

 

Serious question, very funnily put! Yesterday, I posted the following five paragraphs in the "Did Jesus Exist?" thread when asked what changed with the life/death/resurrection of Jesus, and I think it sums up pretty well what I think still today ( ) about what Jesus did for me.

 

**

 

This is a very powerful question, so fundamental yet complex and hard to grasp. It really makes me think. Of course we know the view of Paul -- somehow in the cosmos, or at least on this planet, this one person bore in his body the totality of darkness: sin, sickness, infirmity, separation, guilt, pain, suffering, death, the grave and torment. He took these things upon himself, willingly (yet reluctantly). He laid down his life for his friends. But I know you know this.

 

More likely your point is: Why was this necessary? How did this change things?

 

I can speak only to my situation. Somehow I sense that the arc of the moral universe is long, as Martin Luther King said, but it bends toward justice. Somehow, justice must prevail. Somehow, there must be a means of reconciliation of who we are in our humanness (fallible, inept, ignorant, weak) with who we can become. We can't do this ourselves or we can't recognize that we can do it ourselves. We harbor the suspicion that we need someone to show us the way and take away that which is not genuine in us.

 

It is a great salve to the psyche to believe that in that one person's death we have life. In that one sacrificial afternoon, all that is false and falls short of who we are has been redeemed. His death gives us someone, a tangible someone, to throw our faults and weaknesses and failures and disappontments to, so that they can vanish and we can move on. It was done for our minds, to meet our sense of justice and goodness, and to allow us to walk away free. In that sacrifice we are given a get out of jail free card, and that jail is the mind, the psyche, the conscience.

 

Don't quote me on anything. Just typing out loud. (And not trying to convince anyone of anything...just typing what I'm thinking in response to your point.)

 

-CC in MA

[LostOrFound]

Hi, Lost or Found,

 

No, I wasn't a preacher. I was raised by a Charismatic preacher. I was a former US Army Captain, aviation logistics officer, and helicopter pilot. As far as triablogue, I hadn't heard of it before now. I visited it and could only find an insensitive reference to how only a person who was not in his right mind would reject Christianity, referring to to my post on John Loftus' blog. Can you tell me specifically where on triablogue my letters are? The blinking thing has a bazillion threads, and I can't sift through them.

 

PV

 

 

Here is what I came across: http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2006_06_11_...ue_archive.html

[Mythra]

There are still plenty of christians who believe in a literal hell.

 

They're the same ones who think Joan of Arc was Noah's wife.

[narcissist]

Thanks Pegasus, well written.

 

Of course, there's the whole idea of "infinite punishment for finite sin" as well.

And the fact that God went out of his way to create such a place as this hell as Christians like to describe (it wasn't pre-existing) makes their attempt to make Him look "loving and compassionate" look all the more embaressing.

 

“Is God a Sadistic Monster?”

No. He is much worse than that.

[Pegasus_Voyager]

There are still plenty of christians who believe in a literal hell.

 

They're the same ones who think Joan of Arc was Noah's wife.

 

You mean she wasn't?????? Damn, Mythra, this is like finding out that David really didn't have a British sportscar! "David's triumph roared through the valley" ROTFL!

 

Hey, is your avatar that Hane's underwear commercial! I love it!

[Pegasus_Voyager]

Hi, Lost or Found,

 

No, I wasn't a preacher. I was raised by a Charismatic preacher. I was a former US Army Captain, aviation logistics officer, and helicopter pilot. As far as triablogue, I hadn't heard of it before now. I visited it and could only find an insensitive reference to how only a person who was not in his right mind would reject Christianity, referring to to my post on John Loftus' blog. Can you tell me specifically where on triablogue my letters are? The blinking thing has a bazillion threads, and I can't sift through them.

 

PV

 

 

Here is what I came across: http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2006_06_11_...ue_archive.html

 

 

Oh, my gosh!! That is pathetic! Accusing John Loftus of exploiting me! If I were "weak", does anyone think I would have survived this living nightmare? Anyway, lost or found, as far as I'm concerned, Triablogue is guilty of copyright violation! That post was proprietary information. But as far as steve's arguments, well, It's late, and It would take hours to address them. My post speaks for itself, though, lost or found. It is it's own best defense against "The loving, compassionate, merciful, fatherly god" horse-shit argument.

[currentchristian]

There are still plenty of christians who believe in a literal hell.

 

They're the same ones who think Joan of Arc was Noah's wife.

 

 

-CC in MA

[smellincoffee]

A major turn-off for me was the doctirine of Hell -- once I thought about everything objectively, I realized Hell makes God out to be pretty twisted individual. The Christian god I was taught to beleive in is worthy of nothing but contempt -- certainly not worship.

[Everglaze]

Because of the fact that this "God" cannot get over even the tiniest of sins committed by an individual and throws them into a pit of fire for eternity, he does not deserve worship. He's a hypocrite who commits even worse sins than humans, yet somehow his conduct is righteous? Somehow people are supposed to obey him? Why would anyone want to obey a "God" like that? Perhaps those who do worship a "God" like that are the ones that are truly morbid.

 

For Christians to not believe in Hell means that they have no need to believe in Jesus or the Adam myth. Why did Jesus come? Because it's death through Adam, life through Jesus. If there was no Hell, Christians would be moronic in following a tyrant of a "God" when they wouldn't even be receiving the ultimate punishment as said in the Bible.

 

It's sick.

[Naughtyhamster]

I have an interesting point to ponder about this subject:

 

Now imagine a child who decides to accept Jesus into thier heart as they don't want to suffer God's wrath and burn in Hell. Then one day the kid comes down with cancer, suffers terribly for many years, then dies young. If you ever read many xtian websites there are many stories like this, and sometimes the child dies in other tragic curcumstances other than cancer. I started to question my beliefs when my former pastor's nephew died of leukemia at the age of six, and that's when I just couldn't imagine God as being good. If he exists he seems to enjoy killing off innocent little children ( and sometimes young "reborn" adults) who deeply love Jesus, but allows evil assholes like Saddam Hussein to live long lives. To me a God who takes his wrath out on a child who has come for him for his forgiveness and grace is a sadistic bastard who isn't worthy of worship. I was told by an xtian therapist that the good are usually punished by God to bring salvation to the evil ones. This is such a sick and twisted idea as leaving all the assholes to run the world just results in more innocent suffering.

[currentchristian]

I was told by an xtian therapist that the good are usually punished by God to bring salvation to the evil ones. This is such a sick and twisted idea as leaving all the assholes to run the world just results in more innocent suffering.

 

That is a sick and twisted view your therapist had!

 

Things happen, without discrimination. Good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people. There is no accounting for it with trite words like "God's will" and "God needed an angel in heaven" and all that.

 

I do believe that in the end there will be a reckoning, and every tear will be wiped from every eye. I sure hope so!!

 

-CC in MA

[Pegasus_Voyager]

I was told by an xtian therapist that the good are usually punished by God to bring salvation to the evil ones. This is such a sick and twisted idea as leaving all the assholes to run the world just results in more innocent suffering.

 

That is a sick and twisted view your therapist had!

 

Things happen, without discrimination. Good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people. There is no accounting for it with trite words like "God's will" and "God needed an angel in heaven" and all that.

 

I do believe that in the end there will be a reckoning, and every tear will be wiped from every eye. I sure hope so!!

 

-CC in MA

 

 

Who's going to wipe away the tears of those burning in Hell, currentchristian? Oh, never mind, the intense heat will vaporize them! No need! Indirectly, you have affirmed the truth of a response I gave to an apologist who also threw out the "Jesus gonna make it all better in the end" argument. If this is truly how God functions, then you are, by default, acknowledging that God's leadership style as it relates to human affairs is "crisis management" and "damage control". In essence, God puts an ambulance at the bottom of a cliff rather than a fence along the top. Perhaps someone should teach God that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

 

I think by and large you are a good sport and an overall decent person, cc, in that you do not have a whole lot of allies here, and yet you continue to "hold down the fort" for the apologists in this forum. That takes guts, not fantacism, as some might suggest. I was in the same boat as you in apologetics.org and CARM. I don't know what kind of treatment you have gotten overall from skeptics here as I haven't been here long enough. I would suggest you and anyone else reading this look at the responses I got to my thread "Why I left Christianity after 40 years" in CARM's forum "The Whining Board" (I didn't put it there, it was moved there) then tell me if you have experienced nearly that kind of vitriol and venom here. Also, go the my blog www.permscape.blogspot.com, and read the thread "A humorous exchange between myself and an apologist". See how sweetly I was treated by a "warm, loving, compassionate" Christian there. I've said it before, I'll say it again, the greatest evidence that Christianity is a failure is Christians themselves. As Mahandas Gahndi said, "I would be a Christian.....if I had never known a Christian"

[LostOrFound]

I just read, "A humorous exchange between myself and an apologist". That's priceless!

 

"Deophobe"????

[Pegasus_Voyager]

I just read, "A humorous exchange between myself and an apologist". That's priceless!

 

"Deophobe"????

 

(siiiiiiiiggggh) I'm assuming "God-phobia", Lost or Found! It ain't in the dictonary or Encyclopedia, so tell me and we'll both know! Maybe it's like the apologist's definition of "inerrancy". They just pulled it out of their asses!!

[currentchristian]

I was told by an xtian therapist that the good are usually punished by God to bring salvation to the evil ones. This is such a sick and twisted idea as leaving all the assholes to run the world just results in more innocent suffering.

 

That is a sick and twisted view your therapist had!

 

Things happen, without discrimination. Good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people. There is no accounting for it with trite words like "God's will" and "God needed an angel in heaven" and all that.

 

I do believe that in the end there will be a reckoning, and every tear will be wiped from every eye. I sure hope so!!

 

-CC in MA

 

 

Who's going to wipe away the tears of those burning in Hell, currentchristian? Oh, never mind, the intense heat will vaporize them! No need! Indirectly, you have affirmed the truth of a response I gave to an apologist who also threw out the "Jesus gonna make it all better in the end" argument. If this is truly how God functions, then you are, by default, acknowledging that God's leadership style as it relates to human affairs is "crisis management" and "damage control". In essence, God puts an ambulance at the bottom of a cliff rather than a fence along the top. Perhaps someone should teach God that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

 

I think by and large you are a good sport and an overall decent person, cc, in that you do not have a whole lot of allies here, and yet you continue to "hold down the fort" for the apologists in this forum. That takes guts, not fantacism, as some might suggest. I was in the same boat as you in apologetics.org and CARM. I don't know what kind of treatment you have gotten overall from skeptics here as I haven't been here long enough. I would suggest you and anyone else reading this look at the responses I got to my thread "Why I left Christianity after 40 years" in CARM's forum "The Whining Board" (I didn't put it there, it was moved there) then tell me if you have experienced nearly that kind of vitriol and venom here. Also, go the my blog www.permscape.blogspot.com, and read the thread "A humorous exchange between myself and an apologist". See how sweetly I was treated by a "warm, loving, compassionate" Christian there. I've said it before, I'll say it again, the greatest evidence that Christianity is a failure is Christians themselves. As Mahandas Gahndi said, "I would be a Christian.....if I had never known a Christian"

 

Dear Pegasus_Voyager, Let me begin by saying I did go to the CARM forum (which was new to me) and I did read your post and some of the posts that followed it. It was too much to read every post and every word and that forum is not as tidy as this one, so it was hard on the eyes.

 

While some of those who posted were pleasant and kind to you, many others clearly were not. I'm afraid the old yarn, "Lord, protect me from your followers," it quite true. Many of their answers were trite and condescending, self-righteous and high-minded. I loved one of your responses when you called someone an "obtuse discompassionate pharisee." That was a good description. They talked about Job a lot. Well, they need to read Job. Job had done NOTHING wrong. His "miserable comforters" were as much of the problem as the problem. Many at that forum sounded like Job's so-called friends--arrogant and self-righteous. Gandhi was right, I'm afraid.

 

Now, after you left, they seemed to think that your post was a hoax. I confess I'm a little confused. The post you made first was true, right? I'm a little confused and I ask that you clarify for me. I am assuming what you wrote was legitimate. My heart, therefore, goes out to you. My heart is broken for you. And I do not have any answers to give you. But I will hold your hand when you cry and listen to you when you speak.

 

-CC in MA