Jella Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 You know I've been around for a few weeks, and have moved around to other boards doing an awful lot of reading. I've become obsessed, but that's another story. As I've read every time I hear something negative, albeit probably honest, about Jesus I feel uncomfortable. I mean it's like you have a friend and he is getting berated by a group of people, and while you know he probably deserves it, you feel bad for the person, and want to speak up, but you still know that he probably deserves it. I won't defend him, because the more I read, the more I'm understanding. Somethings I've heard before, some not, so why did I find Jesus to be the one person I could connect with, therefore, overlooking the truth? I don't know, now I'm just rambling, but did anyone else feel like your friend was being attacked when you started reading the board(s)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wertbag Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 You will find things that you react to like this, its to be expected when you turn your beliefs in the opposite direction. Back when I first broke free I had a friend who was an atheist, he put a copy of the bible on the floor and ground his heel into the book then told me to do the same. It was the strangest feeling as I felt wrong and evil just for even thinking of doing so. A quick logic check reminded me it was a manmade book and it meant nothing, I did it and sure enough was not struck down. It left me feeling weird for quite sometime, kind of naughty but no idea why. Felt like I'd stolen a cookie from the jar just before dinner and somehow mum would know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poonis Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 I've gone through similar feelings during my deconversion. I file it all in the "what if I'm wrong about leaving Christianity" folder. If you want to gain a stronger foothold of what you are dealing with, you need to investigate each of these things directly, even if it scares you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShackledNoMore Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 The only really similar feeling I had was when I heard about somebody using the pages of the bible to roll a joint with: that really weirded me out at the time, but it was during the time leading up to my deconversion (before I actually deconverted) when I was still agonizing. By the time I got to the boards I had long since deconverted, and I took the rants to have therapeutic value, especially to the ranters. It seems perfectly natural to me recovering from the damage some of us have sustained. If I rant about jesus, of course I wouldn't be giving it the credence to be ranting about the "son of god," but merely about a construct, about the deception I was fed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 I think a lot of it has to do with what we constucted Jesus to be. He was the perfect friend, companion, brother, model of how to live our life, etc. Even after I deconverted, I still wanted to hang onto Jesus. I wanted him to be a real person, even if he wasn't the son of god. I'd had a relationship with him. I'd talked to him every single day and I was sure that he talked back. He was real to me, damn it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulQ Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 I came to relize that Jesus was nothing more than an arrogant, pompus ass who was really full of himself. I mean, who is he to think that he should die for my sins? Who is he to assume that anything I might have done in this life would warrant anyone being nailed to a cross? Oh, but wait...he's the SON of god, right? Part of the holy trinity? So that would mean that he really didn't die, right? In other words, he was immortal. So, what was sacrificed, exactly? According to scripture, he didn't really die, did he? So, if he is still alive to this day, he sacrificed NOTHING! What an arrogant, pompus ass. First, he makes us believe he made this huge sacrifice for all the petty shit we did in life; then it turns out he really didn't sacrifice anything. Even the time he spent on the cross is not even the blink of an eye to something that is immortal and lives forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charley Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 You will find things that you react to like this, its to be expected when you turn your beliefs in the opposite direction.Back when I first broke free I had a friend who was an atheist, he put a copy of the bible on the floor and ground his heel into the book then told me to do the same. It was the strangest feeling as I felt wrong and evil just for even thinking of doing so. A quick logic check reminded me it was a man made book and it meant nothing, I did it and sure enough was not struck down. It left me feeling weird for quite sometime, kind of naughty but no idea why. Felt like I'd stolen a cookie from the jar just before dinner and somehow mum would know... Yeah, that is what I was going to write of, giving the example of the black mass in the Church Of Satan. The Black Mass there is used similarly to help an individual who elects to do so to elevate themselves above their phobias, by articulate blasphemy. In the Black Mass, Jesus is "forced" to consecrate a communion wafer, which is then thrown on the ground and stompt on.... it's such a beautiful thing ..... (sigh) .... A similar excercise in symbolic blasphemy can aid you. I think the real issue here is not that so much, as I think further, but is in identifying what you are for, and what you are against. Let me begin my point with a personal example : I personally have had many wonderful experiences with christian people who cared for my mother in her final days in a catholic hospital, and a home hospice. They were unfailingly warm, generous, and supportive to all of us. They found their inspiration in christianity, which is something that is unreasonable to me, and I credit their qualities to their own good natures. They do not, giving "glory to god". I feel frustrated that they refuse a compliment I would like them to enjoy, and that is my only real difference with these particular individuals. Academic. What I vehemently oppose in christianity, and it also bears noting that many other areas in life share these same destructive aspects : is the mindless socialization into baseless beliefs, mindless faith, and the zombie-like servitude that can be evoked in good god-fearing people. That can institutionalize any personal, social, or political stupidity with air-tight reinforcement, since the act is sanctioned by the creator. So, how can their be such a discrepancy between these wonderful christian people who cared for my mother, and the mean cowardly christians who grab all of the publicity they can? It's all in the qualities of the individuals who attempt to apply the belief system. Good people will be creative and productive, inferior people will only find new ways to demonstrate their inferiority. I think the wonderful christian people I know would be better served, intellectually and emotionally, by atheistic thinking, and it's unfortunate that they disagree, and to them I adamantly make my case if and when the subject is of mutual interest to being discussed. To inferior people, I'll just make the best use or ab-use of them I can, getting even by getting ahead at their expense. I give the above as an example of how I clarify this issue, and of course expect you to apply your own nuances if you happen to agree with me on the essentials. Do you, poster, or anyone, agree? I would like to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jella Posted December 22, 2006 Author Share Posted December 22, 2006 I've gone through similar feelings during my deconversion. I file it all in the "what if I'm wrong about leaving Christianity" folder. If you want to gain a stronger foothold of what you are dealing with, you need to investigate each of these things directly, even if it scares you. This is what I intend to do. It's not so much that it scares me, I guess it's more that I didn't realize it, and chose to overlook so much. I think a lot of it has to do with what we constucted Jesus to be. He was the perfect friend, companion, brother, model of how to live our life, etc. Even after I deconverted, I still wanted to hang onto Jesus. I wanted him to be a real person, even if he wasn't the son of god. I'd had a relationship with him. I'd talked to him every single day and I was sure that he talked back. He was real to me, damn it! I think is exactly how I feel. Thank you all for posting, it does help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 This really raises an interesting subject: Breaking the power of abused sacred symbols. Grinding your heel into a Bible can be jarring on a huge number of levels, yet it can also be therapeutic. I like to use the term "Therapeutic Blasphemy", as part of that process of healing and moving beyond the control of a bad relationship with the things these symbols represent. The Bible, or the name of Jesus, or a statue of a god or the flag of a country are all powerful symbols. They represent a huge, overarching idea. The power of those ideas is embodied in that object, or that word, or that image, as they are a way for our minds to connect to something so large and so abstract. To attack these symbols, is to exert yourself against something much larger than you. It's not like simply telling off some dude you don't saying, "go to hell!"; it's to challenge an entire culture, an entire people, an idea, and a belief, a god. Beliefs, governments, and gods exert control over people. People voluntarily give their wills over to these symbols. When these "entities" abuse their power over individuals, in order for the individual to take back power to himself he must break the power of that entity over them, and just as he had a relationship to it through symbols, he will need break the power of those same symbol in his own life. This can take the form of flag burning, desecrations, and blasphemies against the icons of religion. Once the power of the symbol is broken for that person, hopeful they are able to move beyond that act into a new life of empowerment that is more healthy and productive for them. Every now and then I still find myself needing to push back against the symbols that once held sway over me, especially as others attempt to wield them over me, but it becomes less and less necessary as they become understood as nothing more than simple idols made by the hands of men. The gods are nothing more than men. Well, that was an interesting thought. Thanks for bringing it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 When I learned that Jesus was really a combo of several different 'martyred heroes' from several different legends, I was a little sad. But when I looked inward to find that 'friend' I'd spent so much time talking to, the one who always listened, and totally understood me....I realized I'd been talking to myself the whole time. So "who" had I really lost? A name I'd affixed to the higher ideals that were a part of me. And I feel much more honest and sane admitting I enjoy talking to myself. It really is better than the more socially approved of, but ultimately dishonest and at worst self-abusive, talking to "Jesus" or "God" or whatever name you want to slap on there. George Carlin prefers Joe Pesci. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 And I feel much more honest and sane admitting I enjoy talking to myself. Ah, do I sense a soliloquy? My internal dialogue bubbles to the surface every once in a while. I don't think it's abnormal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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