People Are Pushy In All Sorts Of Areas......

[The Sage Nabooru]

Right now my housekeeper's teenage, unemployed, unmotivated daughter is pregnant. Since my housekeeper thinks childrearing is no big deal and that babies are cuddly toys (and little else), she's absolutely thrilled. I'm not exactly teeming with enthusiasm, but oh well. Not my problem.

 

I've stated before that I am not a kid person. I do not like children. My fellow childfree folks here will know the teeth-grinding annoyances of people who act as though not wanting, having, or needing children is a disease that warrants cure. My housekeeper is one of those people. I've tried explaining gently to her that my choice to not have children is in no way an insult to her own, but she still seems unable to live with it.

 

Today she brought over sonagram images of her daughter's offspring. Apparently sonagrams have really gotten neato in recent years, as it was done in 3D and very detailed and all that. I saw a lumpy monochrome picture of a alien-like being gestating away in what actually looked like someone's intestines. This is the part I really dreaded. She's waiting for me to act like I'm so excited for her and her daughter and that this baby is just so cute and darling and I just can't wait for it to be born and hold it and all that garbage. But I can't do it. I cannot fake it. I honestly don't know what to do. I'm stuck there, silent, but she got busy cleaning the house and luckily I was able to quietly return the sonogram images (for which she has purchased a special photo album) to their keeping place.

 

I think she was hurt by my reaction. But what could I do? She knew already that I was not a "kid person" and while I realize she's excited for her unfortunate grand-offspring, she can't expect me to go all coo-coo over something I relate nothing to.

 

The really frustrating part is that I think she's hoping I'll "turn". After all, she knew that I'm going through a phase when I pretend to not want children like an independent woman while I fight a failing battle against the urge to procreate - at least, that's the way she sees it. The hardest part is yet to come - when I'll come face to face with one of the drooling, screaming, brain-dead turd-like creatures called "newborns" and expected to hold it and act like it's the greatest fucking thing in the world. How do I turn it back? Honestly I think I'd rather throw it across the room. I think she's really starting to get upset that I'm not going her way and giving in to my mothering instinct (which I do, by the way, have - just with dogs, not humans).

 

Add this to the fact that this kid is being born in some pretty unpreferable circumstances, and I just don't know how I'm going to get through the coming months. My housekeeper is very sweet and nice, but I just can't play along with this baby thing. It's just one of those things I find myself incapable of doing. I know from her quietly-yet-increasingly pushy attitude about it that she has every intention of bringing the kid with her as often as possible with her when she comes to clean the house - perhaps will even expect me to watch and coo over it - and how do you say to someone who really is nice and warm and kind "Sorry, but I'm just not that into your grandkid?"

[sparkyone]

This is quite a ticklish situation considering you're not eager to insult your housekeeper or make her upset, but you might just need to be polite but firm if someone asks you to hold or care for the baby. After all, it's not your responsibility. I admit that I used to think it was strange or unnatural if a woman didn't want children or only wanted one, as opposed to several. We know one family who has around 9 children and when I first met them several years ago and mentioned that I had two kids, the husband said that it was a good start. I was thinking that it was a good finish also. I have two children and am quite glad that my husband was firm in his decision to have only two. It's a full-time job and long-term commitment and not for those not wholeheartedly accepting of it and willing to make the sacrifices needed to raise children and deal with all it involves. Sometimes I actually think that I'm not cut out to be a mother, but it's what I've wanted, along with a husband, since I was a kid (I also wanted to be a nurse, which I went to school for). Since I'm an introvert, I need my time alone, so I'm also glad my husband insisted on the boys going to school instead of me homeschooling them. What I'm trying to say, is that I now totally agree that someone should not have children unless they really want it and understand the responsibility and it doesn't make them a lesser person for not wanting that. I can sympathize with you on this and see it from both sides, in a way. What's ironic is that my Mom loves her own grandkids to death, but has little patience with holding and snuggling with other people's babies, which also goes to show that once the maternal or grandmotherly instinct kicks in, a person is able to put up with more than expected with that particular child.

 

Sparkyone

[Asimov]

I hate kids too, and I'm probably not the type of person to give advice on this that would result in a positive outcome.

 

At best, just say "cool" and nod your head and smile.

 

The problem is that it's a lose-lose situation. If she thinks she's converting you, she'll bring the kid over more, and if she is trying to convert you then she'll bring it over more anyways.

 

The best thing is to out and out say that you think it's great her daughter is having a kid but you wouldn't want one yourself. If she tries to get you to hold it, say that you're not comfortable doing that and she should find someone else to do that.

[Unknowing1]

I have two kids and I love them to death but I do not want anymore, why because as Sparky said it is a full-time job. While I work over 9 hours a day I also have maintained a great involvement in my childrens lives, school, sports, extracurricular activities ect. Nothing like putting in a 9 hour day, coming home to do dinner, wash clothes, help with homework, run them where they need to go etc....Did I mention that I am a neat freek also, you can eat off my floors. In order to compensate I sleep 6 hours and get up before anyone else just to have quiet time and get stuff done. In lots of ways I envy you, your decision.

 

Some people just don't have the same feelings about kids as they do. And while your housekeeper is excited, she should know and respect your feelings. I would just say that's great and move on, it's not your kid nor is it someone in your family who is having the kid. This is an employee and your response is as much as any employer is expected to give.

 

What I do when someone tells me they are expecting, I just say congratulations, I'm happy for you and move on. Or if they hand me a picture of their sonogram, I just say, that's cool. What more can I say. It isn't my kid and while I think modern medicine is cool you can't say much about how cute a blob is. I mean really.

[Amethyst]

 

I'm sorry you had to go through that. I've never had anyone be so rude as to force pictures of their kids on me. I would like to think if they did I would just smile and nod, smile and nod, but since I've never had that experience, I don't know for sure. IMO, she shouldn't have assumed you'd go ga-ga over the pictures, though.

 

At my cousin's wedding last summer, my uncle pretty much set a baby in my lap that I wasn't ready for holding at the time, and I was eating at the time, which I think is also rude. He's not normally rude, but he thought it was funny and I didn't.

 

I did go to my friend's baby shower this past summer but she's a good friend. She had a baby boy.

[Vortex]

A guy at work did the same thing and shoved the picture of a future shit-machine in front of my face.

 

My first reaction was "They let you breed?" "Hell, you need a license to drive, a license to carry a concealed firearm, even a license to fish, but they let anybody have a child!"

 

Not what he was expecting.

 

Now, I used to babysit when I was in high school. My football buddies would drop by and it was funny to watch their faces when I had to change a diaper. I even did the car ride thing to get them to sleep.

 

I don't mind children. I cannot stand ill-mannered children, and I hate infants in fancy restaurants. (Kinda like cell phones with no off switch.)

 

My wife and I cannot have kids, and that's okay with me.

 

For a humorous dissertation on the little tykes, check this out: http://www.nobeliefs.com/babies.htm

[The Sage Nabooru]

At my cousin's wedding last summer, my uncle pretty much set a baby in my lap that I wasn't ready for holding at the time, and I was eating at the time, which I think is also rude. He's not normally rude, but he thought it was funny and I didn't.

 

I've had this done to me once, too, at a party I attended at the home of someone my mother used to work with. The sad thing was I said "NO." I said "I DON'T WANT TO HOLD THE BABY." Her (my hostess's) reaction was something along the lines of "Well of course you do, if just for a moment."

 

I realize that a lot of people think their kids are so fucking fantastic and great and so far above all other living matter that they assume that other people will also be overawed by their gloriousness and will want to cuddle them as well. I was stuck with a drooling toddler on my lap for a good five minutes and hated it. Jesus, why won't people just listen?

 

I do know one person who had a baby thrust in her lap as a child. She just let it slowly sink to the floor. As babies have little awareness of anything besides their own breath (and even that's a long shot), it just sat there looking stupid and obviously it didn't hurt it. This is the course of action I plan on taking: If someone shoves a baby in my lap when I don't want it, I will just quietly set it down somewhere else - safely but firmly - and then go on as if nothing happened.

[Dhampir]

I like to say I have a pathological aversion to holding infants and new-borns, and that it's a fear that, risking someone else's life, is one best left unfaced.

[Amethyst]

At my cousin's wedding last summer, my uncle pretty much set a baby in my lap that I wasn't ready for holding at the time, and I was eating at the time, which I think is also rude. He's not normally rude, but he thought it was funny and I didn't.

 

I've had this done to me once, too, at a party I attended at the home of someone my mother used to work with. The sad thing was I said "NO." I said "I DON'T WANT TO HOLD THE BABY." Her (my hostess's) reaction was something along the lines of "Well of course you do, if just for a moment."

 

I realize that a lot of people think their kids are so fucking fantastic and great and so far above all other living matter that they assume that other people will also be overawed by their gloriousness and will want to cuddle them as well. I was stuck with a drooling toddler on my lap for a good five minutes and hated it. Jesus, why won't people just listen?

 

I do know one person who had a baby thrust in her lap as a child. She just let it slowly sink to the floor. As babies have little awareness of anything besides their own breath (and even that's a long shot), it just sat there looking stupid and obviously it didn't hurt it. This is the course of action I plan on taking: If someone shoves a baby in my lap when I don't want it, I will just quietly set it down somewhere else - safely but firmly - and then go on as if nothing happened.

 

I probably wouldn't have minded so much had I been asked first, and had I not been eating at the time. I think the fact that I wasn't even asked bothered me more than anything else. Had I been asked, I'd probably have said, "Maybe later."

[D Laurier]

I happen to be a kid person.

I have been described as the most maternal man ever. I can change a diaper while reading a book. I can reason with a toddler.

And yes, I like doing storytime.

 

We who are kid people, do tend to forget that not everyone is just like us.

 

I have no kids of my own, (that I know of) But most of my relationships have been with single moms.

I want to raise kids, but thats me.

 

Sad to say Nabooru, but we live in a culture where not being a kid person is seen as bizzare.

(worse yet, a lot of NON kid types are probably better parents than some kid people)

Your housekeeper probably wont ever understand you.

[Seth C Triggs]

I don't enjoy babies either. I usually bluff and say, "I don't know how to hold the baby."

 

Or, "OK, thanks. Nice" if handed a picture and then hand it back.

 

Hope this helps!

 

-Seth

[Dhampir]

I'm actually good with kids. The reason being is that I recognize that there's a time limit on their good behaviour around a stranger, or a relative, and once that time is up, I can simply hand the kid back to it's parent. I don't mind children, I just don't want any.

[PaulQ]

The kids, I do not mind. It's the parents I can't stand.

[Kelli]

Interesting thread topic. My wife and I have 8 children between the two of us. We've been married 10 years, and we came into the marriage with 5 children. Neither of us planned that many children. She was a single mom who had both children out of wedlock, I had been married and was one of those brainwashed christians that went to a church with large families and believed that god commanded us to procreate.

 

The latter three children happened the same way my wife's first two did -- she is allergic to or otherwise very adversely affected by nearly every birth control method available. We actually had planned to have her tubes tied at the birth of our second youngest, but the ob, who practiced at several hospitals, forgot that the hospital we were at forbade sterilization, as it was a Catholic hospital. So we ended up having one more before "finalizing it."

 

Now, don't get me wrong, I love *all* my children deeply. There hasn't been a single day I've been without kids since I was 19 years old. When my ex decided motherhood wasn't for her and left us (when my youngest at the time was 11 mos old), I took care of them, worked two jobs, got about 4 hours of sleep a night, even keeping them out of daycare as much as possible (mostly because of my religious beliefs), and got very sick as a result, LOL. But these days I realize that our quality of life (for us and them) could be a lot better had we done things differently. Would I give any of them up? Not in a million years.

 

But sometimes I envy those who can have peace and quiet when they come home from work, not have to spend countless $$ on this or that for their kids, go on trips without worrying about lugging kids with them or finding a babysitter, or having a romantic weekend getaway at a B&B without a second thought.

 

That said, I understand where Sage is coming from. I have friends with no children, and I respect that. Once upon a time, I didn't. I have learned, and mostly because of having childless friends who had to tell me the same things Sage is having to tell her housekeeper.

 

If you've told her firmly but gently that you just don't like kids and she doesn't get it, nice or not, you may have to tell her point-blank that you don't want her lugging the grandchild with her into your home. You could also use the excuse that you cannot be responsible for the welfare of the child and if an accident occurs while the child is in your home, you do not want to be liable.

[white_raven23]

Here is a thought Sage....

 

This woman is your housekeeper. You pay her to clean your house....right? Last I checked, most folk really aren't encouraged to bring kids to work with them. They also wouldn't have the "boss" watch their kids (or grandkids) either.

 

It's your damn house too. You probably don't have a "kid-safe" home either.

[white_raven23]

For a humorous dissertation on the little tykes, check this out: http://www.nobeliefs.com/babies.htm

 

 

Damn that kicked ass! Thanks for posting that!

 

And yeah Sage, I know finding a good housekeeper is awesome and no easy thing, but I really see no need for you to bend over in any way to someone whom you pay to be in your home. And you can bet the quality of the cleaning with drop if someone is trying to divide their attention. You want to pay this woman to gaagaa over her grandchild when she needs to be cleaning your home? In no way should this employee even think she has a right to ask her employer to watch her lazy daughter's fuckspawn either.

 

If this woman comes to your house through a cleaning company, all you have to do is tell the manager of the company you aren't running a daycare. That woman has no right to bring that kid into your home.

[Nihil]

I don't like kids much, either. I have a gojillion cousins, and I can never remember their names.

 

I'm not sure what to tell ya, Sagey, since you're trying to be diplomatic. Honestly, why should you respect her feelings, if she's not respecting yours?

 

My advice is to tell her a story about how you were babysitting one time, and you kept shaking the baby to make it stop crying. That should do the trick.

[Jubilant]

My advice is to tell her a story about how you were babysitting one time, and you kept shaking the baby to make it stop crying. That should do the trick.

 

Ah, yeah, I think that would do the trick. ROFLMAO!!!!!

 

Even though mistreatment of children makes me sick, and my husband and I have two that we dearly love and enjoy and I can't imagine life without, I'm not a kid person...other people's kids, so I know how you feel. I don't mind having other children over but as far as listening to people go on and on about theirs and pictures and such...forget it.

 

Anyway, I second the advice to be firm. When the baby comes and they want you to hold it say, "No, I do not want to hold your baby. No offense to you, but it is something that I prefer not to do, so please do not offer again." I wouldn't say that it makes me "uncomfortable" because then you are sure to have to deal with a bunch of coaxing and pleading.

[Curtdude]

Hey Sage! I'm with you totally. When people want me to hold their kids I always refuse.

 

One thing I have noticed is that it's assumed in our culture that if you are a woman, you are instinctually maternal, even with offspring who are not your own. Most annoying sexist attitude, I must say.

 

One thing to keep in mind re your housekeeper bringing the baby to work with her, there may be a legal liability issue if the baby is injured in your home. I'm not sure, but you could use it as an excuse not to allow the kid on your property while its grandma is working for you.

 

Take care and good luck!

[The Sage Nabooru]

Sad to say Nabooru, but we live in a culture where not being a kid person is seen as bizzare.

(worse yet, a lot of NON kid types are probably better parents than some kid people)

Tell me about it. I've been told I need psychiatric counseling and that perhaps I suffer from a terrible mental disorder that causes me to dislike children.

 

It's true we live in this culture, and I acknowledge it, that doesn't make it any more pleasant.

 

And I do think a lot of non-kid types would make better parents. There are so many times at work when some "doting mother" is allowing her bratty spawn to crawl over the counter, play with the register keys (that sure makes things a lot easier for me - I had one woman put her kid on the counter and she kept fucking up the checkout with her greasy little fingers, I had to curse quietly before she put the damn bastardess down - why's the kid sitting on the counter anyway?); what really drives me insane is when kids kick and scream and cuss out their own parents to get something - AND THEY GIVE IT TO THEM! My parents, who were not non-kid types, would never, ever allow me to have something simply because I whined for it.

 

I really have to say that I hate parents as much, if not more, than kids. I hate people who assume that I should make a special effort for their precious darlings or treat them differently or offer some kind of special treatment. Look, if you burden yourself with offspring, that is so not my problem. Therefore it is so not my responsibility to make life any easier for you or your the product of your wretched loins once you've screwed yourself out of independent life.

 

But one thousand times worse than parents.......are the dreaded GRANDPARENTS. It's incredible how much people lose their sanity when they get grandchildren. It's really strange, too, because whereas a parent will (hopefully) realize the power of discipline and restraint with their own kids, once the grandkids come along all hell breaks loose. If parents think their children are angels, grandparents know that their grandchildren are the Messiah. There is nothing a grandchild does that is not glorious and indicative of their blinding brilliance, and there is no request too great from a grandchild. Whereas a child will be permitted two cookies and a glass of milk upon coming home from school, a grandchild will be allowed to raid the entirety of Grandparents' kitchen, spill the contents of their refridgerator, dump the items in the cabinets on the floor, and then order to be accompanied to the grocery store to pick out a new selection of items to destroy. The grandparent, while standing at the checkout lane, will go on and on to the bored and pissed-off cashier about how much they treasure their precious descendants, even as said relatives are attempting to pull Grandma's hair out.

 

One thing I have noticed is that it's assumed in our culture that if you are a woman, you are instinctually maternal, even with offspring who are not your own. Most annoying sexist attitude, I must say.

 

Ditto. I so fucking hate that, and what's really sad is it's usually women who are assuming that I want to cuddle their screaming infants and then get offended and frightened when I say, "No."

 

I say "frightened" because people seem to react that way when you say you don't want kids. They start reassuring themselves that you cannot possibly be either right or serious ("Oh, you're young, you don't know any better," "That's not true, we all have kids eventually,"), because the thought of you actually not wanting children is apparently unbearable to them. Why, I don't know.

 

As for my cleaning lady.......well, she's a friend as well. She actually does cleaning on the side as she works as a nurse's assistant at the same place my mother is employed. We talk all the time when she comes over, we go out to eat, we really get along well. I actually look forward to her time here, and regard them more as visits than as scheduled housework. It's just this baby getting in between us.

[D Laurier]

Nabooru,

We would get along fine despite our obvious differences,

You express yourself in a dark and sarcastic way that I do appreciate.

There are indeed parents who should not be allowed to have kids.

and I know a few... UGH

 

Although I am a kid person, and would (I hope) make a great parent,

I dont see anything wrong with your Not being a kid person,

With over population already out of control, the choice to not have kids is a very responsible one.

Also I think that a lot of parents fail to respect the dignity of non parents.

(yes, if someone shoves a kid onto your lap, your dignity is compromised)

 

Kids are messy, noisy, and smelly, and they are very demanding.

[-Demona-]

Well, it may seem sexist indeed, but I do find that I'm a maternal individual. Not because I'm female, neccesarily, but because it's an intrinsic part of this tomboy's psychological makeup. I like to take care of the people and animals I love, and pamper them quite often. My half-dozen formerly stray cats are spoiled with love, particularly my little princess Moonstone. And I always take my mom out to dinner once I put my paycheck in the bank, so she doesn't have to concern herself with cooking anything.

 

Especially, it's pretty safe to say I'm as gaga over my cats as kid-loving folks are over the tykes they've spawned. And at least I don't have to worry about college tuition.

 

All that being said, I tend to go easy on the kids with weak parents. It's not their fault that their parents won't actually display some backbone and disipline their offspring. I also particularly loathe parents who just want a kid because they're desperate for love or just think babies are "oh so keyoooooote!" Kids are a responsibilty, not a fashion accessory!

 

BAD PARENTS ARE ANATHEMA. That's what it all comes down to for me. I don't mind cooing over a well-behaved child, but you better know how to handle that kid and what behaviours a child is supposed to exhibit where and be willing to enforce it, Mom and Dad.

 

My mother had a good lesson for me that quickly encouraged me to behave myself in public, and I usually suggest this to overworked parents (and usually end up with some grateful smiles for the tip). I wasn't an especially bad kid, but I did have my less-than-stellar moments. If I threw a fit while mom and I were in a store, she would warn me just one time that, if I kept whining, we'd go home and I'd get nothing. If I carried on, she would put everything back in its place, apologize to one of the sales associates for my behaviour, and take me home. All conducted with a Zen-like calm on her behalf. Going home without the toy or candy I wanted was usually punishment enough, in my case.

 

Once I was about 9 or 10 years old, she started taking me to work with her. But that was only because she couldn't afford a babysitter any longer. Her boss, a real estate agent, didn't mind so long as I behaved. Of course, by that time, I had learned how to conduct myself outside of the home. I was mindful that I was a guest at my mom's workplace and would keep myself quiet with busy work (drawing, writing poetry or doing homework) while my mother juggled the numbers in her bookkeeping job.

 

Needless to say, because I was so polite and nearly invisible, I greatly endeared myself to my mother's coworkers, and they'd always had some new items on tap for me, like colouring books, 500 and 1000 piece puzzles, or the latest Babysitter's Club and Nancy Drew installments. They even let me use one of the old word processors to type out my stories! Obviously, if I were a bratty kid by that point, my mother would have been forced to find a cheap babysitter come hell or high water. But everyone was wonderful all in all, and understood my mother's situation. The boss's secretary, Jane, even became a kind of surrogate aunt for me.

 

That's from a kid's perspective. From the boss' perspective, I'd look at the situation like this: if the grandma/parents can't afford a babysitter, you could try being lenient until they find a family member who's willing to take the kid. Like maybe allow the kid in the home for a week or so, but no more than that, while still an infant. A few years into the future (that is, if you're still living in the same place and have the same housekeeper), allow the kid in only if the youngster is quiescent, and will either stay out of the way or is willing to be helpful accomplishing minor tasks.

 

However, you're the boss, so the matter is completely up to you. You are well within your rights as employer to refuse the child asylum in your home because, as far as your housekeeper is concerned, she's your employee and your home is the office she works at. You're paying her to dust your furniture and scrub your floors, not babysit her daughter's whelp.

 

Sorry for the novel length post, but this thread gave me quite a bit to think about and say.

[The Sage Nabooru]

Especially, it's pretty safe to say I'm as gaga over my cats as kid-loving folks are over the tykes they've spawned. And at least I don't have to worry about college tuition.

 

I'm the same way with my dogs. It seems that childfree people, in my experience, regularly prefer and enjoy "children" with four legs. My dogs are my babies. I know another childfree woman with horses, and another with birds (two legs, but still possessed of a considerable personality).

[Vortex]

For a humorous dissertation on the little tykes, check this out: http://www.nobeliefs.com/babies.htm

 

 

Damn that kicked ass! Thanks for posting that!

 

You're welcome. I like kids, but that is pretty durned accurate. Glad you enjoyed it and sorry I didn't respond earlier - holidays you know.

[twincats]

...what really drives me insane is when kids kick and scream and cuss out their own parents to get something - AND THEY GIVE IT TO THEM! My parents, who were not non-kid types, would never, ever allow me to have something simply because I whined for it.

 

I really have to say that I hate parents as much, if not more, than kids. I hate people who assume that I should make a special effort for their precious darlings or treat them differently or offer some kind of special treatment. Look, if you burden yourself with offspring, that is so not my problem. Therefore it is so not my responsibility to make life any easier for you or your the product of your wretched loins once you've screwed yourself out of independent life.

 

But one thousand times worse than parents.......are the dreaded GRANDPARENTS.

 

How true! I worked in retail for 5 years and if I had a dime for every time I saw that, I could retire. Grandparents, I noticed, will buy the kids noisy stuff that parents tend to shun. We used to sell lollipops that came in a hard plastic cover with knockers that kids would want their parents to buy them. Just when the parent started rolling his/her eyes, I'd innocently add that it was ALSO a whistle as I watched their expression turn to abject horror. Grandparents bought the noisy suckers without so much as missing a beat!

 

I'm 46 and NEVER wanted kids. Don't have any, either. I've learned to let the typical reactions roll off my back, as it were. When we can afford it, I'm getting a puppy! (as in, a rescue dog, that is.)