Jump to content

One Tip On Debating The Religious


Poonis
 Share

Recommended Posts

when debating with the religious, i have just found something recently that has caught one of them off guard:

 

me: can you show me something that exists?

him: yea, here's my cell phone

me: can you show me something that does not exist?

him: no

me: can you show me your god?

him: .............

 

There was about 5 seconds of dead silence (first one to speak loses) until he tried to redefine non-existence and that it was not a fair assumption that just because god cannot be seen that it does not exist.

 

ADMIN - PLEASE MOVE THIS TO LION'S DEN

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good one, Poonis - nice and straightforward way to disarm a Xian evangelical assault. It turns the tables in your favor and puts you on the offensive. If you're stuck in a situation where you're debating, it can be especially useful.

 

Just be prepared to reply to such things as "well, we can't see atoms, but we know they exist!" (I've heard that one before, which is countered with the fact that there is a way to see them by just using the proper microscope). Some people get caught off-guard by easily-disproved Xian retorts like that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good one, Poonis - nice and straightforward way to disarm a Xian evangelical assault. It turns the tables in your favor and puts you on the offensive. If you're stuck in a situation where you're debating, it can be especially useful.

 

Just be prepared to reply to such things as "well, we can't see atoms, but we know they exist!" (I've heard that one before, which is countered with the fact that there is a way to see them by just using the proper microscope). Some people get caught off-guard by easily-disproved Xian retorts like that.

 

I also caught another one off guard by having them set definitions. For example, I would ask him/her, "What properties do you attribute to something that is non-existent?" This is either (1) a squirm-inducing question because they can see where you will tie their god to their definition of non-existence, or (2) a catch-em-off-guard question like the above. I find it is actually quite effective either way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good one, Poonis - nice and straightforward way to disarm a Xian evangelical assault. It turns the tables in your favor and puts you on the offensive. If you're stuck in a situation where you're debating, it can be especially useful.

 

Just be prepared to reply to such things as "well, we can't see atoms, but we know they exist!" (I've heard that one before, which is countered with the fact that there is a way to see them by just using the proper microscope). Some people get caught off-guard by easily-disproved Xian retorts like that.

 

Hi all, I haven't posted in a long time but this might be a jumping in point.

 

I woudn't waste my time with such arguments unless you are trying to stump the ill-prepared believer who can't articulate the most basic ideas. Most people, not just Christians, can deal with the concept of a spiritual realm which physical instruments cannot detect or measure. Like the atomic analogy, maybe someday there will be a scientific instrument that proves the exisitence of a spirit world. In the mean time, I don't find disarming in the least bit and it really doesn't require mental gymnastics.

 

td (hi)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good one, Poonis - nice and straightforward way to disarm a Xian evangelical assault. It turns the tables in your favor and puts you on the offensive. If you're stuck in a situation where you're debating, it can be especially useful.

 

Just be prepared to reply to such things as "well, we can't see atoms, but we know they exist!" (I've heard that one before, which is countered with the fact that there is a way to see them by just using the proper microscope). Some people get caught off-guard by easily-disproved Xian retorts like that.

 

Hi all, I haven't posted in a long time but this might be a jumping in point.

 

I woudn't waste my time with such arguments unless you are trying to stump the ill-prepared believer who can't articulate the most basic ideas.

 

Hi td,

 

I read a few of your posts on another thread. I understand you are not out to evangelize every unbeliever you encounter. You said you believe evangelization should take place on the person-to-person level so I don't know what you would be like in a face-to-face encounter--whether or not you would try to convert every unbeliever.

 

I think the techniques being put forth in this thread are meant for dealing with the "ill-prepared believer who can't articulate the most basic ideas" you describe. There are so many of those that it is not without reason that Christians as a group are often viewed as being intellectually deficient. In fact, it seems at times as though religion was invented precisely for this kind of person.

 

As you may know if you have been reading this forum, I am studying at a seminary under the tutelage of committed Christians. There is no way I would resort to this sort of argument with them because they are respectful and open-minded thinkers. In other words, such tactics are not required when dealing with them.

 

Well, with the one guy I might depending what came up. He's got his PhD but I'm not sure how smart he really is when it comes to harsh reality. He's the type that is more rabid and loves pushing religion. I really like what one of my other profs said.

 

He said he does not think it is his job to convert people. I think he meant that converting people is the job of the Holy Spirit. That seems to be the official position of the school and I think it should be the position of all real Christians.

 

In other words, it seems to me that people who cannot trust the souls of unbelievers to God's care are not living their faith very well, hence not real Christians. It may be okay to mention your faith to an unbeliever, but respectful and secure individuals will not feel the need to push their religion. That is my belief.

 

Most people, not just Christians, can deal with the concept of a spiritual realm which physical instruments cannot detect or measure.
I don't know what you mean when you say we can "deal with the concept." I think this concept is the crucial issue exChristians encounter and are obligated to deal with as part of the deconvertion process. Thus, it is true that all of us know about the concept. And we deal with it.

 

I think what you are really saying is that there is room in all of our minds for the possibility of the existence of God. I don't know why you would say that to a batch of professing atheists. Obviously, we have already "dealt with the concept," and we found the evidence seriously lacking. But, as atheists have said on this forum, if God showed himself tomorrow we would instantly turn into believers.

 

I can see you countering that argument with something like: Then you are not believers; you are knowers.

 

Here's my counter-argument: When I say "I believe" I mean that it makes sense in my mind and that it is in all probability factually accurate.

 

Over the course of several centuries (since the enlightenment) Western science has proven that this universe is so complex that true and absolute knowledge of anything is virtually impossible. This means humans can never get closer to absolute knowledge that hypothesis and theory. It also means that anyone who says they can get closer is lying.

 

"Faith is the substance of things hoped, evidence of things not seen." That verse has fascinated me since my adolescence. It promises evidence. The bitter heart-break is that it does not deliver. Not in the way that the post-modern Western mind considers evidence. The closest we get to actual factual evidence is the religious experience. And we now know that this is in all probability just the firing of neurons in the brain.

 

Like the atomic analogy, maybe someday there will be a scientific instrument that proves the exisitence of a spirit world.

 

I read a few articles that address this topic. There is concrete evidence that there is a part of the brain that when stimulated produces "spiritual" experiences. This basically does away with the spiritual realm.

 

In the mean time, I don't find disarming in the least bit and it really doesn't require mental gymnastics.

 

td (hi)

 

I think there is a typo in this sentence and I don't know what you intended to say. Thus, I am unsure of your position.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi all, I haven't posted in a long time but this might be a jumping in point.

 

I woudn't waste my time with such arguments unless you are trying to stump the ill-prepared believer who can't articulate the most basic ideas. Most people, not just Christians, can deal with the concept of a spiritual realm which physical instruments cannot detect or measure. Like the atomic analogy, maybe someday there will be a scientific instrument that proves the exisitence of a spirit world. In the mean time, I don't find disarming in the least bit and it really doesn't require mental gymnastics.

 

td (hi)

 

Well, if this is the case then the what is detected will be either matter or energy which puts it squarely in the universe of the material. A detectable spirit would not be supernatural, by definition.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi all, I haven't posted in a long time but this might be a jumping in point.

 

I woudn't waste my time with such arguments unless you are trying to stump the ill-prepared believer who can't articulate the most basic ideas. Most people, not just Christians, can deal with the concept of a spiritual realm which physical instruments cannot detect or measure. Like the atomic analogy, maybe someday there will be a scientific instrument that proves the exisitence of a spirit world. In the mean time, I don't find disarming in the least bit and it really doesn't require mental gymnastics.

 

td (hi)

 

tdsurf,

 

Nice to hear from you. Can you show me your god?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.