Christian Feelings - Were They Real ?

[Guest gabriel]

I'm in the process of writing a (approaching) 20-page long document, anti-testimony and anti-Christian rant which I hope to, when it is complete, will pass to all my pastors, friends and family to announce my deconversion. I hope to allow you all to audit it when the time is right.

 

A big claim I make in there is that most Christians only pay lip-service to the Gospel and it's doctrines, that the "religious" experiences they claim to have had (healings, being convicted by a verse, etc) are at best shallow, and at worst, fabrications. That all Christians are hypocrites and by their own standards, are unable to make it to heaven.

 

This has proven to be true in my case, but I'm curious about your opinions. How many of you, now with the advantages being distanced from this nonsense, consider these things to have been "fake", or were you "genuinely convicted", even if it was to a small degree? Do you miss having a relationship with "God"?

[Guest gabriel]

sorry, double post.

[Lycorth]

Many Xians, you can be sure, really do believe what they give lip service to. Even pastors and priests, etc. Be very careful when makng accusations, since many of those to whom you will give your revelation to may be serious about what they believe.

 

When I believed, I was convinced of it. I managed to feel all the feelings a good Xian is supposed to feel, and often times used those feelings as proof that I was on the right track.

 

I don't miss the phoney-baloney "relationship with Gawd." The Xian god isn't real, so I don't miss being infatuated with a figment of the imagination. I did enjoy the feelings I had when I was Xian and thought I knew it all. But I enjoy my current path more, only because I know it to be more reasonable than my old Xian ways.

[Vigile]

A big claim I make in there is that most Christians only pay lip-service to the Gospel and it's doctrines,

 

Absolutely. If they truly believed unbelievers were destined for an eternity of torment, their very sense of humanity would have them quitting their jobs to join the ranks of full time missions in utter despiration at the enormity of our potential destination.

 

that the "religious" experiences they claim to have had (healings, being convicted by a verse, etc) are at best shallow, and at worst, fabrications.

 

We once had a guy on here who believed because god helped him drive his car a couple of miles to the gas station after the needle on his gage displayed E.

[Guest gabriel]

When I believed, I was convinced of it. I managed to feel all the feelings a good Xian is supposed to feel, and often times used those feelings as proof that I was on the right track.

 

I'm curious what these feelings are. I grew up as a conservative Presbyterian, though, so these things are downplayed, though I mingled a lot with the Pentecostal type. I'm a jaded person, so I had to resort to lying about my emotions, but I am slowly beginning to realize this doesn't apply to all.

 

A few questions

 

- Did you ever feel "guilty" for your sins? That you really really deserved to go to hell?

- Did you feel "close" to God? How did this manifest - did you find comfort in the Bible, in what way?

- Did you really believe 100% that Jesus died for your sins, that non-Christians were going to hell and you were to heaven? (another issue I address is how it's impossible to "force" oneself to have faith")

 

Thanks very much for the response

[Scarlett]

No, I truly believed. And although many Christians try telling me that I must have been weak in faith or never had any faith, they are incorrect. I was about as fundamentalist as you could get for a Christian in this day an age. It's amazing how delusional the human mind can get. If you are raised and grow up in a family and culture that pushes a certain delusion, you can become delusional and end up believing it hook, line, and sinker.

 

Do I miss any of it? Do I miss having a relationship with God? Hell no! If I could take it all back, travel back in time and stop myself from becoming a Christian in the first place I would. My life surely would have been a lot better. I no more miss having a relationship with god then I do imaginary magic puppies.

[Guest gabriel]

Absolutely. If they truly believed unbelievers were destined for an eternity of torment, their very sense of humanity would have them quitting their jobs to join the ranks of full time missions in utter despiration at the enormity of our potential destination.

 

We once had a guy on here who believed because god helped him drive his car a couple of miles to the gas station after the needle on his gage displayed E.

 

Yes! nonsese like that is exactly the reason for leaving Christianity - speaking of God's divine intervention in traffic, I know someone who believed God helped him beat a red light without getting a ticket. haha

[Scarlett]

Did you ever feel "guilty" for your sins? That you really really deserved to go to hell?

 

Yes.

 

Did you feel "close" to God? How did this manifest - did you find comfort in the Bible, in what way?

Yes, I was convinced I was one of the elect and I had a special mission.

 

 

Did you really believe 100% that Jesus died for your sins

 

Yes.

 

that non-Christians were going to hell and you were to heaven?

I believed they'd go to a sort of purgatory where they could eventually get into heaven to be with god IF they accepted the truth. And yes I believed I was going to go to heaven.

 

(another issue I address is how it's impossible to "force" oneself to have faith")

 

You can force yourself to do just about anything...not that you'll be able to keep it up for long though, and not that it's good for you.

[Leaf]

religious" experiences - They are generally "feelings" Anyone can have these about anything. if I tell my daughter the Cookie Monster is god..And if she prays to the Cookie Monster she will go to Cookie Heaven and can eat cookies for ever...Well she will likely pray one day and ask the Cookie Monster to forgive her...get warm fuzzies..Maybe give a few testimonies on the grace of the Cookie Monster..She may even get radical and go to Cookie Monster College and get a degree in Cookie Monster missions to preach about the Divine Love of the Cookie monster.

Its all pretend...the religious" experiences is pretend..the same Mr Rodgers uses in his neighborhood..Just some people "grown adults" have not outgrown this and still believe in teh aLand of make believe.

[garrisonjj]

I'm in the process of writing a (approaching) 20-page long document, anti-

 

I absolutely was the most devout catholic I knew for most of my life. I always had doubts about confessing sins to priests, receiving communion and all the stupid,simplistic sermons.

My life without god and religion is much less anxious. Prayers were never answered and I feel no difference now that I have evolved into an atheist.

Do I fear hell? Yes. Do i miss a relationship with an imaginary god? honestly yes. I am at the point I know religion doesn't work for me and I just don't care.

If god was so perfect and created everything, why did he create evil?

[truth]

Yes there was a time where I really believed I had a personal relationship with God and Jesus.. that if I wasn't right with him and certian of my salvation that I would go to hell. I felt guilty for not witnessing more to save souls... I felt bad that I was unable to better defend my faith to nonbelievers and agnostics.

 

I did have what I thought then were real experiences, I would faithfully go to a prayer meetings of the inner healing/ spiritual healing/deliverence type variety... which I had visions and propecies and had people speak words of wisdom and knowlege over me.. sung in tongues. I wanted to go to the amazon, marry a wonderful man of god, have babies and save the lost.

 

What I didn't like was a lot of the bible, was from a liberal pentecostal church.. with fundy roots that still wouldn't allow women on the board and such.. people picked and choose what they felt was relevant for today and what was culture.. as far as biblical teachings go.

 

I do know that there were some people that liked the dramatics and faked.. but I was for real and most of the women in the prayer group were and are for real. Well at least they think they are that is. I still struggle coming to terms with some of the spirtitual experiences that I had..and with the women who heads the ministry.

 

I thought at one point that I wanted to go into spirtual healing, and read books on it and deliverence and was convinced that it was for real.. that I could see jesus in my then mentors eyes.. that she could know things without having someone tell her. Though if god does talk to her, why didn't he tell her to call me back when I called her because I no longer believe in him... you think if there really was a god talking to her that he would be concerned about a lost sheep to do something about it... I still get email notices saying she is speaking at some church about her lattest evangelistic ministry misson to some country... I haven't yet had the guts to say please stop sending me emails..

 

At one point I did miss god, but then when I called on him he did not answer and since then well I don't miss it. I do have some fond memories of a kind of innocence of a time gone bye, but then when I think of what the rest of my life was like then.. I do not miss it at all.

 

I was so certain of my faith, I never would in a million years thought I would be here sitting on the fence between agnosticism and atheisim. Or with a pack of tarot cards... I use to wonder why xtians left the faith after believing and how and why certain people did and didn't and would worry that perhaps that might happen to me one day if it happened to them.. I didn't like the way churches did outreaches to try to save lost kids and then their parents it always made me uncompfortable but I felt like a bad xtian for thinking that.

 

My friends are saddened that I don't believe in xianity anymore.. they think it is just a phase and not to sin too much because it will be harder to come back.. they can't believe that I am no longer a small c xtian but an ex now. I haven't told them I don't believe in the god of the bible and that I doubt the existance of god. They are genuine in their beliefs, though have had their issues and periods of not practicing and kind of ignoring god.

 

It has been a long road to this point, it didn't happen over night.. and really the only reason I stayed in xianity so long was because of peer pressure and a fear of hell. I just couldn't keep trying to convince myself that I believed in it any longer.. nor could I figure out a way where I could still believe what I believed live life how I wanted to but get involved and go into ministry.. OH and be geniune at the same time.. Not going to work.... I clung to calling myself a xtian and made my own definition for much longer than what my xitain friends considered a xtian to be.. I finally realized I didn't believe the main creeds of xianity anymore. Jesus I clung to for a while.. but that didn't last long.

[garrisonjj]

I'm in the process of writing a (approaching) 20-page long document, anti-

 

I absolutely was the most devout catholic I knew for most of my life. I always had doubts about confessing sins to priests, receiving communion and all the stupid,simplistic sermons.

My life without god and religion is much less anxious. Prayers were never answered and I feel no difference now that I have evolved into an atheist.

Do I fear hell? Yes. Do i miss a relationship with an imaginary god? honestly yes. I am at the point I know religion doesn't work for me and I just don't care.

If god was so perfect and created everything, why did he create evil?

 

 

Also as a follow up, Ive immunized myself from religion by being blasphemous. At xmas mass I received without confession and many "mortal sins" on my soul. Church was a social necesity. Such action would have driven me crazy before and now I just say FUCK IT!Tis is for all the feelings of guilt and worthlessness religion caused me. Its also refreshing to say jezusfucking christ and speak any way I like in the right company. Holy fuck! I wasn't struck dead! God? Where is he? I think in your minds and delusional thoughts. Sorry for the additional rant.

[Leaf]

You all here need to get a life and quit evaluating the past..What was done is done..This entire forum is depressing like a AA meeting or something...I see a bunch of cry babies here.."oohh poor me" "Christian used me" Booo hooo..Half of you are writing some depressing ass stuff!

move on...What was done was done..Why do you keep wasting your time spinning your wheels and crying like a baby...I can understand some coming here posting a thread of their coming out in the testimony section..thats all cool...But man some of you need to get over it!!!!

This is most depressing forum I have ever been on....At least Christian forums are more happy go lucky....

MODS PLEASE CANCEL my membership here!

[StewartP]

You all here need to get a life and quit evaluating the past..What was done is done..This entire forum is depressing like a AA meeting or something...I see a bunch of cry babies here.."oohh poor me" "Christian used me" Booo hooo..Half of you are writing some depressing ass stuff!

move on...What was done was done..Why do you keep wasting your time spinning your wheels and crying like a baby...I can understand some coming here posting a thread of their coming out in the testimony section..thats all cool...But man some of you need to get over it!!!!

This is most depressing forum I have ever been on....At least Christian forums are more happy go lucky....

MODS PLEASE CANCEL my membership here!

You are unbelieveable.

 

Each post you make you surpass yourself.

 

Look. Why wait for the mods to cancel. JUST FUCK OFF.

 

This must be the first post I've seen of yours that wasn't about sex.

[Jubilant]

MODS PLEASE CANCEL my membership here!

 

[white_raven23]

You all here need to get a life and quit evaluating the past..What was done is done..This entire forum is depressing like a AA meeting or something...I see a bunch of cry babies here.."oohh poor me" "Christian used me" Booo hooo..Half of you are writing some depressing ass stuff!

move on...What was done was done..Why do you keep wasting your time spinning your wheels and crying like a baby...I can understand some coming here posting a thread of their coming out in the testimony section..thats all cool...But man some of you need to get over it!!!!

This is most depressing forum I have ever been on....At least Christian forums are more happy go lucky....

MODS PLEASE CANCEL my membership here!

 

 

Leaf....a lot of folks on here are still RAW from leaving. Some recover quickly....others not so quickly as their personal changes impact more areas of their lives, including loss of spouses, and loss of core family not to mention the slightly more replaceable loss of their prior social system.

 

If you are not sensitive as to the recuperative and "support group" nature shared by members here.....then I really do hope your heart gets raped one day. Raped raw and bleeding with sorrow so deep, you cannot breathe. Emotional agony that stamps intself on your face so deeply, that even complete strangers who see you know that you are facing great pain.

 

And when you pour the contents of your shattered heart out to someone you think will lend an understanding ear, may they crush the shards of your soul under their heels with the words:

 

"Move on...What was done was done..Why do you keep wasting your time spinning your wheels and crying like a baby."

 

Fuck you. Leave on your own. No one is stopping you, and you are hardly important enough for the Mods to "ban" you, and that's what you are really asking for....isn't it? You could just piss off, stop posting, and disappear.....but no no....you want everyone to know of your parting. You want infamy.

 

You want your ego stroked.

 

I'd rather shove a broken bottle up your ass.

 

MODS!!! PLEASE DON'T GIVE THIS PATHETIC EXCUSE FOR A HUMAN BEING THE SATISFACTION!!

 

At least not until he's made enough ugly posts, that even a retarded ferret can tell he's worth less as a person than a pile of it's own retarded ferret feces.

[Delicate_Catastrophe]

If you don't want to hear about how people were hurt by Xtianity, try a "current atheist" forum rather than an "ex xtian" one.

 

You don't need banned, just LEAVE already!

[riverbank]

You all here need to get a life and quit evaluating the past..What was done is done..This entire forum is depressing like a AA meeting or something...I see a bunch of cry babies here.."oohh poor me" "Christian used me" Booo hooo..Half of you are writing some depressing ass stuff!

move on...What was done was done..Why do you keep wasting your time spinning your wheels and crying like a baby...I can understand some coming here posting a thread of their coming out in the testimony section..thats all cool...But man some of you need to get over it!!!!

This is most depressing forum I have ever been on....At least Christian forums are more happy go lucky....

MODS PLEASE CANCEL my membership here!

 

this is exactly why ex-christian.net is here - to help people in these situations. I doubt you were ever much of a christian anyway, if at all..certainly if your lifestyle is anything to go by. But for others christianity was a BIG part of their life, and some people take a while to get over the loss of their faith. Not that you'd care about other people's feelings anyway.

[Leaf]

Thanks, I'll go check out the Atheist forum. because if I stay here I'll likey end up taking deppresion drugs and likely hitting the bottle.

[Kurari]

I had a very strong connection with God, but not the Christian god. The feelings were indeed very real. They still are, as a matter of fact, but I don't attribute them to a god anymore.

 

Mostly I turned to god for inclusion in the world, and to feel like I was part of life because many people made me feel like I shouldn't exist. I wanted to find that fabled and coveted unconditional peace and love that is attributed to god. I found that, and I healed a great deal. Then I've discovered that I can keep feeling it whether I think there is a god or not. After taking a critical look at life, I haven't seen any other evidence for a god...as in, an intelligent being that interacts with the world...beyond that feeling.

 

I got into a discussion the other day with a friend and outted myself as an Atheist. She was shocked and said, "But, God is in everything! God is in us and all around us!" She considers all religions to be the same, and after some probing, she said, "God is life. There is no difference between life and God."

 

So I said, "Then why not just call it "Life?"

 

She didn't have an answer to that. No matter what you call it, I don't see any sort of "personality" running things. But a do see a lot of extrodinary things in the world, and the grace of mankind is one of them. We really don't need to be looking anywhere else.

[R. S. Martin]

I'm in the process of writing a (approaching) 20-page long document, anti-testimony and anti-Christian rant which I hope to, when it is complete, will pass to all my pastors, friends and family to announce my deconversion. I hope to allow you all to audit it when the time is right.

 

A big claim I make in there is that most Christians only pay lip-service to the Gospel and it's doctrines, that the "religious" experiences they claim to have had (healings, being convicted by a verse, etc) are at best shallow, and at worst, fabrications. That all Christians are hypocrites and by their own standards, are unable to make it to heaven.

 

This has proven to be true in my case, but I'm curious about your opinions. How many of you, now with the advantages being distanced from this nonsense, consider these things to have been "fake", or were you "genuinely convicted", even if it was to a small degree? Do you miss having a relationship with "God"?

 

I would echo what others have said. My concern is that you are opening yourself to being severely hurt by revealing what is in your heart. In the Frequently Asked Questions section there is a thread specifically about Breaking the Bad News i.e. experiences people have had with telling family and friends about their deconversion. There are also other threads that might be relevant at this time.

 

I have always believed that if I explained my position well enough and clearly enough, people would understand. Not so. When it comes to the faith many will dogmatically stand on their beliefs come hell or high water.

 

I personally would say I never believed. Like Kurari says, I can bring up feelings that seem spiritual, and these are real. Like Kurari, I believe these feelings are physiological or life or whatever. People who associate these feelings with God will not be convinced no matter what you say. People who seldom, if ever, get these feelings will get raging MAD at you. They really have no evidence for the god they profess but they daren't admit it. So they will attack you for exposing them. That is my thinking.

 

Do I miss having a relationship with God? Yes. My deconversion is fairly recent--about four months or so. There are times I want God to look after me, to take responsibility for making things better. I've been working on the idea of no god for the better part of a year. It has been a slow process for me. At first the universe felt so empty so I decided atheism is not for me. My very thought structure was built around the idea of God.

 

I did explore paganism that says god is in everything and everything is god. Goddess is the term they use. Over time my brain adjusted to seeing myself as part of the planet, as part of the life or eco-systems on this planet. So yes, some aspects of god have been very real to me. I will be very happy to read your paper. If you do present it to the people you proposed, be prepared for severe censure and perhaps open anger and hatred and cancelled relationships.

 

I spilled the news by accident and that changed the entire family dynamics behind my back. Way out of proportion, way beyond anything I had imagined or anticipated. Hopefully the people around you do not respond so violently but it seems to be common fare. Many of us here have experienced it.

[Ex-COG]

I truly believed in Jesus, heaven, hell, the Bible as God's word, the Trinity, etc, etc. Looking back, I think that most of the people in my church were true believers; a few I suspected of being in it just for the tradition (they'd always gone there, a family member was a founding father, etc.). Occasionally people would leave, either to join another church or to just drop out (lost their belief, so I thought). But, now that I think about it more, I wonder how much of these beliefs and feelings were supported by group encouragement and peer pressure? I think I would have left Christianity after only a few years (instead of 14!) if I had been on my own. So maybe many Christians don't believe, or at least feel that some things are more questionable than others, but just don't say anything because of what they may face from the church. It would be interesting if we could administer a "truth serum" to all Christians, and ask them if their personal beliefs and feelings are real. I think we'd get some interesting responses, even from the ministers!

[Piprus]

Oh, I was very much a fundie, but thankfully not for very long. I believed the whole enchilada, and practiced it without any doubt or question...the sunday sermons, bible inerrancy, sunday school lessons, daily prayer and bibble study, name it and I claimed it. As I've posted before, it was the gentle persuasions of an agnostic father and grandparents and an ultraliberally christian mother that got me to question, and reject the nonsensical elements of xiantity, which led eventually to my becoming an atheist. The longer one is involved in fundy xianity, the more difficult it is leaving it, but the longer one has been out of it the better life becomes.

 

Only one caution, Gabriel...although expressing your feelings on leaving the "faith" to your xian family, friends, clergy...you can expect some nasty responses from people you thought you trusted.

 

Best wishes on your project!