Christians And Curses

[Naughtyhamster]

If you read some of my posts you know that some asshole youth pastor decided it would be fun to "lay a curse in the name of Jeebus" on me when I was a teenager. Yesterday I was pondering about the validity of curses as when I was in religious anthropology class a few years ago I was told curses, no matter if the religion is Christian or "Pagan", only work on the power of suggestion. I had asked the teacher then about the validity of Christian curses and she just said most religions have some kind of element of putting curses on others but she never heard about Christians laying curses on others. My problem is I've been researching if Christians putting curses on others is a legit practice or actually condemed by the Bible. Recently I read in the early Christian times you were allowed to put curses on others as it was a Pagan practice that was intergrated into the early church ( like holidays were). Other times I've heard Christians can lay a curse on someone if it's done in the name of the Trinity (as that asshole did) as in the Bible Christ had put a curse on a fig tree when it wouldn't bare fruit for him. Also some tv evangelists have called curses onto people who have dared to speak out against them, even other tv evagelists.

 

So are curses by Christians something that is an allowed practice by Bible law, or is it actually a forbidden practice left over from the times of paganism?

[riverbank]

Well, hmmm, difficult one to answer maybe. In the Old Testament I think Nehemiah cursed some people "in the name of the Lord" but I can't find the correct scripture passage for this.

 

Yeah, Jesus cursed the fig tree, I can't recall anywhere in Scripture where he cursed a person.

 

Paul said somewhere "If anyone does not love the Lord - a curse on him!" (Charming)

 

As you have mentioned, tv evangelists have pronounced curses - I know Benny Hinn has (I would quite happily curse him, mind!) I'm sure they can find scripture and verse to justify their actions. Personally, I just think it's because they have it in for someone and think that person should be cursed for "rebellion against God's anointed" or something.

 

I think it's just another example of human nature myself, I don't believe that people curse because "the Lord has led them to".

[Naughtyhamster]

My grandmother would lecture me about how when Christ cursed the fig tree it died whenever I cursed in the swearing way as a kid. She took the word "curse" as to "swear" and thought cussing at someone would bring bad luck to both parties so its kind of a confusing verse.

[Lycorth]

From what I understand, cursing in general is forbidden as a form of magic. Of course, in true hypocritcal fashion, Biblegodzilla is depicted as doing much cursing. Cursing in Jebus' name may be another story in a strictly Babblical sense, but I am not aware of any Xian traditions of cursing people.

[Casey]

This may be of interest:

 

(Courtesy of the BBC)

 

In the last two decades of the 16th century, England and Scotland were officially at peace. However the border between England and Scotland was in constant dispute between the two crowns.

 

In the last quarter of the 16th century organised lawlessness had increased to such an extent that by the late 1580's and 1590's there existed what can fairly be described as a reign of terror.

 

The downward spiral into lawlessness in the border region can be explained by the particular history the border area had endured. Raids, rebellion and war between England and Scotland were bitter and long-drawn out. The border region was the playing field of this upheaval. War, physical hardship and repeated devastation had shaped the border people and their country, and left the legacy of gang warfare and organised crime.

 

The raiders were known as "Reivers" from a dialect word meaning "thief". To cut a long story short, in 1525 the archbishop of Glasgow put a curse on the reivers, or so it is said. The curse allegedly runs like this:

 

"I curse their head and all the hairs of their head; I curse their face, their brain (innermost thoughts), their mouth, their nose, their tongue, their teeth, their forehead, their shoulders, their breast, their heart, their stomach, their back, their womb, their arms, their leggs, their hands, their feet, and every part of their body, from the top of their head to the soles of their feet, before and behind, within and without."

 

"I curse them going and I curse them riding; I curse them standing and I curse them sitting; I curse them eating and I curse them drinking; I curse them rising, and I curse them lying; I curse them at home, I curse them away from home; I curse them within the house, I curse them outside of the house; I curse their wives, their children, and their servants who participate in their deeds. I (bring ill wishes upon) their crops, their cattle, their wool, their sheep, their horses, their swine, their geese, their hens, and all their livestock. I (bring ill wishes upon) their halls, their chambers, their kitchens, their stanchions, their barns, their cowsheds, their barnyards, their cabbage patches, their plows, their harrows, and the goods and houses that are necessary for their sustenance and welfare."

 

"May all the malevolent wishes and curses ever known, since the beginning of the world, to this hour, light on them. May the malediction of God, that fell upon Lucifer and all his fellows, that cast them from the high Heaven to the deep hell, light upon them."

 

"May the fire and the sword that stopped Adam from the gates of Paradise, stop them from the glory of Heaven, until they forebear, and make amends."

 

"May the evil that fell upon cursed Cain, when he slew his brother Abel, needlessly, fall on them for the needless slaughter that they commit daily."

 

"May the malediction that fell upon all the world, man and beast, and all that ever took life, when all were drowned by the flood of Noah, except Noah and his ark, fall upon them and drown them, man and beast, and make this realm free of them, for their wicked sins."

 

"May the thunder and lightning which rained down upon Sodom and Gomorra and all the lands surrounding them, and burned them for their vile sins, rain down upon them and burn them for their open sins. May the evil and confusion that fell on the Gigantis for their opression and pride in building the Tower of Babylon, confound them and all their works, for their open callous disregard and opression."

 

"May all the plagues that fell upon Pharoah and his people of Egypt, their lands, crops and cattle, fall upon them, their equipment, their places, their lands, their crops and livestock."

 

"May the waters of the Tweed and other waters which they use, drown them, as the Red Sea drowned King Pharoah and the people of Egypt, preserving God's people of Israel."

 

"May the earth open, split and cleave, and swallow them straight to hell, as it swallowed cursed Dathan and Abiron, who disobeyed Moses and the command of God."

 

"May the wild fire that reduced Thore and his followers to two-hundred-fifty in number, and others from 14,000 to 7,000 at anys, usurping against Moses and Aaron, servants of God, suddenly burn and consume them daily, for opposing the commands of God and Holy Church."

 

"May the malediction that suddenly fell upon fair Absolom, riding through the wood against his father, King David, when the branches of a tree knocked him from his horse and hanged him by the hair, fall upon these untrue Scotsmen and hang them the same way, that all the world may see."

 

"May the malediction that fell upon Nebuchadnezzar's lieutenant, Olifernus, making war and savagery upon true christian men; the malediction that fell upon Judas, Pilate, Herod, and the Jews that crucified Our Lord; and all the plagues and troubles that fell on the city of Jerusalem therefore, and upon Simon Magus for his treachery, bloody Nero, Ditius Magcensius, Olibrius, Julianus Apostita and the rest of the cruel tyrants who slew and murdered Christ's holy servants, fall upon them for their cruel tyranny and murder of Christian people."

 

"And may all the vengeance that ever was taken since the world began, for open sins, and all the plagues and pestilence that ever fell on man or beast, fall on them for their openly evil ways, senseless slaughter and shedding of innocent blood."

 

"I sever and part them from the church of God, and deliver them immediately to the devil of hell, as the Apostle Paul delivered Corinth. I bar the entrance of all places they come to, for divine service and ministration of the sacraments of holy church, except the sacrament of infant baptism, only; and I forbid all churchmen to hear their confession or to absolve them of their sins, until they are first humbled / subjugated by this curse."

 

 

"I forbid all christian men or women to have any company with them, eating, drinking, speaking, praying, lying, going, standing, or in any other deed-doing, under the pain of deadly sin."

 

"I discharge all bonds, acts, contracts, oaths, made to them by any persons, out of loyalty, kindness, or personal duty, so long as they sustain this cursing, by which no man will be bound to them, and this will be binding on all men."

 

"I take from them, and cast down all the good deeds that ever they did, or shall do, until they rise from this cursing."

 

"I declare them excluded from all matins, masses, evening prayers, funerals or other prayers, on book or bead (rosary); of all pigrimages and alms deeds done, or to be done in holy church or be christian people, while this curse is in effect."

 

"And, finally, I condemn them perpetually to the deep pit of hell, there to remain with Lucifer and all his fellows, and their bodies to the gallows of Burrow moor, first to be hanged, then ripped and torn by dogs, swine, and other wild beasts, abominable to all the world. And their candle (light of their life) goes from your sight, as may their souls go from the face of God, and their good reputation from the world, until they forebear their open sins, aforesaid, and rise from this terrible cursing and make satisfaction and penance."

 

Casey

[riverbank]

 

that is pretty harsh stuff isn't it? Sweet Jesus, that man sounds a bit too much like biblegod for my liking.

[Lycorth]

I'm tempted to assign the curse of the archbishop to the stubborn Pagan threads which still permeate Gaelic Xian practice rather than ultimately to Xianity itself. Xianity had the most difficult time stamping out Paganism - in fact, it never did.

 

Hexing in that form is far more Pagan than Xian, in my experience. Not that I wouldn't put it past a Xian to do (after following Jebus' example with the fig tree), just that it would seem too "magical" for most Xians' taste.

[Lycorth]

Plus, it seems like Bishop Crankypants is trying to excommunicate the thieves, which only can come from Rome, if I remember by Cathoholic dogma rightly.

[Casey]

It wasn't unknown for medieval books to be protected against thieves by curses:

 

From here

 

In medieval libraries, religious works were chained to stands and shelves to make sure they stayed where they were placed.

The most widely employed deterrent in the Middle Ages, however, was not the chain but the curse.

One monastery threatened prospective thieves with damnation with Judas, Ananias, Caiaphas, and Pilate; while others invoked anathema, the most solemn ecclesiastical curse, leading to excommunication.

A colorful example, from the monastery of San Pedro in Barcelona, goes like this:

“For him that stealeth, or borroweth and returneth not, this book from its owner, let it change into a serpent in his hand and rend him. Let him be struck with palsy, and all his members blasted. Let him languish in pain crying aloud for mercy, and let there be no surcease to this agony till he sing in dissolution. Let bookworms gnaw his entrails ... and when at last he goeth to his final punishment, let the flames of Hell consume him forever.”

 

Casey

[Piprus]

I was taught that it would be inappropriate for a christian to curse, for that is god's provence..."Vengenance is mine" saith the lord, "I will repay". Rather, or so I was taught, the xian should pray for god's intervention so that the offender can be set straight. The xian is to "turn the other cheek" etc.

[Kelli]

I have always been of the opinion that cursing and swearing were two completely different things.

 

"Shit!" is not cursing, but it is swearing .

"Fuck!" is not cursing, but it is swearing.

"Go to hell" (even though I don't believe in hell) is cursing but not swearing.

"Fuck YOU!" is cursing.

"Damn you" is cursing.

"Bite me" (when said seriously) is cursing.

 

I have taught my children that it is OK to swear as long as they are not in mixed company, but it is never OK to curse someone. Not that cursing will ever actually do anything supernatural, it's just not nice. Swearing is generally just venting, and to me replacing "damn" with "dang" or "crap," or "shit" with "shoot" is just dumb. You might as well say the word anyway. I swear regularly and I know my kids use the words at school with their friends, so I have no qualms with it as long as they know better when they're within earshot of people who would be offended. To say they can't when I do would be hypocritical. Funny enough, as I thought they would be, they are much more respectful about it than most kids from homes with strict rules against swearing.

[QuinnTheEskimo]

Well one could pray for God to bless someone, so I suppose one could pray for God to curse somebody. The wrong logic behind all this is that we are to leave that sort of judgement for God, and instead of cursing try to share God's glory and love.

[Lycorth]

... instead of cursing try to share God's glory and love.

 

Why can God curse, then, and yet order us not to? I've always found that hypocritical. Kind of like jealousy; God is jealous yet forbids us to be jealous.

 

God hates us all. If he didn't, he'd not demand we believe in Jebus or else burn forever, he'd eradicate evil and make the world a paradise.

 

Jebus is God's biggest curse of all.

 

Good thing God doesn't exist

[QuinnTheEskimo]

Why can God curse, then, and yet order us not to? I've always found that hypocritical. Kind of like jealousy; God is jealous yet forbids us to be jealous.

 

God hates us all. If he didn't, he'd not demand we believe in Jebus or else burn forever, he'd eradicate evil and make the world a paradise.

 

Jebus is God's biggest curse of all.

 

Good thing God doesn't exist

 

 

I did not say that God orders us not to curse others, I personally just do not think that I (or anyone else) should be.

 

10 "You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat."

 

13 "Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way."

 

I would rather leave the judgement up to God, who am I to throw around curses?

[QuinnTheEskimo]

Why can God curse, then, and yet order us not to? I've always found that hypocritical. Kind of like jealousy; God is jealous yet forbids us to be jealous.

 

God hates us all. If he didn't, he'd not demand we believe in Jebus or else burn forever, he'd eradicate evil and make the world a paradise.

 

Jebus is God's biggest curse of all.

 

Good thing God doesn't exist

 

 

I did not say that God orders us not to curse others, I personally just do not think that I (or anyone else) should be.

 

From Romans:

10 "You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat."

 

13 "Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way."

 

I would rather leave the judgement up to God, who am I to throw around curses?

[Lycorth]

I did not say that God orders us not to curse others, I personally just do not think that I (or anyone else) should be.

 

From Romans:

10 "You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat."

 

13 "Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way."

 

I would rather leave the judgement up to God, who am I to throw around curses?

 

God can judge but we can't?

 

My whole point is the overall hypocrisy of Xianity.

[Naughtyhamster]

Only problem is when someone is told the curse was put on you by Gawd on the day you were conceived and will follow you in death, and no matter how much you pray to him and be good you will burn in Hell. Thats part of the curse the youth minister had put on me as he said he was only asking Gawd to put a harsher curse on me as the curse I had on me from the day I was conceived was not bad enough to punish me for being a "Jeezebel" ( this being that the pastor said my sperm donor sexually abused me as I seduced him). Also the pastor had said the curse was because Gawd and Jeebus had hated me from the time I was conceived and no matter how hard I try to be a good xtian I'll never go to heaven, and if I even step into another church Gawd was going to make my life miserable. Later on it seemed that everytime I attended church and tried so hard to be a good xtian all these bad things would happen to me, yet a lot of the people at the churches I went to had better things going for them. So how do you explain that? :angry:

 

Today I was discussing this with my widowed "reborn" xtian grandmother and told her about our little discussion here as my stepaunt is kicking her out of the home she had lived in with my stepgrandpa for almost twenty years. I told her if she's xtian and believes that Jeebus has already blessed her with a lot how come she doesn't put a curse on my stepaunt for being such a fucking little bitch. I discussed that "Christ cursing the fig tree" story and she still says he probably swore at it (or just gave it a good scolding), but thought my idea of putting a "xtian curse in the name of Jeebus" on my stepaunt was a bunch of stupid pagan bullshit.

[QuinnTheEskimo]

Only problem is when someone is told the curse was put on you by Gawd on the day you were conceived and will follow you in death, and no matter how much you pray to him and be good you will burn in Hell. Thats part of the curse the youth minister had put on me as he said he was only asking Gawd to put a harsher curse on me as the curse I had on me from the day I was conceived was not bad enough to punish me for being a "Jeezebel" ( this being that the pastor said my sperm donor sexually abused me as I seduced him). Also the pastor had said the curse was because Gawd and Jeebus had hated me from the time I was conceived and no matter how hard I try to be a good xtian I'll never go to heaven, and if I even step into another church Gawd was going to make my life miserable. Later on it seemed that everytime I attended church and tried so hard to be a good xtian all these bad things would happen to me, yet a lot of the people at the churches I went to had better things going for them. So how do you explain that? :angry:

 

Today I was discussing this with my widowed "reborn" xtian grandmother and told her about our little discussion here as my stepaunt is kicking her out of the home she had lived in with my stepgrandpa for almost twenty years. I told her if she's xtian and believes that Jeebus has already blessed her with a lot how come she doesn't put a curse on my stepaunt for being such a fucking little bitch. I discussed that "Christ cursing the fig tree" story and she still says he probably swore at it (or just gave it a good scolding), but thought my idea of putting a "xtian curse in the name of Jeebus" on my stepaunt was a bunch of stupid pagan bullshit.

 

Naughtyhamster, I am astonished that a youth pastor would do that, but even more so I am sorry that such a thing would happen to you. Things like that obviously scar a person, it really is sad. I had a friend when he was little that went to church with his parents, and the very first time he went, all the kids including the sunday school teacher told him he was going to Hell, and there was nothing he could do about it. Why would christians do such a thing? There could be a number of reasons, first of which that comes to mind is that they were not really children of God like they claimed to be. I shudder to think that so many claiming to be christians in the world today are really just fake on the inside. With that being said, I hope you can get past it that not all christians are completely hypocritical, and that most are really just set out to fulfill God's word.

 

Varokhar: Why should the created have any say in anything unless the creator allows such? We are nothing compared to God, and to compare ourselves to Him in the least is just ridiculous.

[NotBlinded]

Varokhar: Why should the created have any say in anything unless the creator allows such? We are nothing compared to God, and to compare ourselves to Him in the least is just ridiculous.

Because the created is the creator. We don't believe your God exists Quinn.

[Shawn]

I know one time some old guy cursed me "by the power of the God of Abraham". I told him to fuck off.

 

A youth pastor did that to you hamster? Hopefully it went on him instead! What an asshole! But, typical for a Christian.

 

 

Shawn

[Japedo]

10 "You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat."

 

13 "Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way."

 

I would rather leave the judgement up to God, who am I to throw around curses?

 

How is one to decipher who to associate with and who not to if not to judge?

 

Example: Would you allow a pedophile into your home with children because you don't want to come across as being 'judgmental'? This has never made sense to me when Xtians spout this type of BS, yet hypocritically they are some of THE MOST judgmental beings on the planet. It's your duty to judge, infact your life depends on it, if you deny you judge.. I'll judge you either a liar, an idiot, or both depends.

[Naughtyhamster]

Well with the ways things have been going for me if there is a God he surely hates me ten times over. Looks like I'm all on my own in life.

[QuinnTheEskimo]

Well with the ways things have been going for me if there is a God he surely hates me ten times over. Looks like I'm all on my own in life.

 

Wrong wrong wrong wrong, whatever is going on in your life right now can be changed by the power of God. I do not know what you're going through, but God can fix anything. It could be that God is pushing you to give up on yourself, and seek Him out. Some may think otherwise, but I know I am not able to get through life on my own, it is not possible. We as humans need God, and He wants for us to realize that need. Even if you are unsure of what to think, but you are truely seeking out God, God will be pleased. If you seek Him, He will find you. You do not have to be all on your own, do not think so. I pray that you will look towards the Heavens and search out your creator, and that your life will be changed. Please tell me if you are struggling in your life and might want to consider seeking out God. I cannot do anything for you, but I sure can try to help lead you to Him.