southdakota2005 Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 I have been out of the Church for all of 9 days and last night at work a Fundalmentalist Christian found a book that I had been reading during lunch about problems with the bible and he didn't like it. He came up to me while I was minding my own business and he started to question me about it. He started talking about how great the bible was and quoted several passages to me and I got angry and decided to go for it. I told him about the various contradiction I have seen in the bible and he responded that there were no contradictions at all. I gave him a few and he then gave me a long sermon on how God was right and that it wasn't a contradiction. He then proceeded to tell me that even babies would go to hell since they are not saved. That even people who have never heard of Jesus would be going to hell because God is God and can do what He wants. I am not the best speaker in the world and it is hard for me to get across my thoughts into words sometimes but after awhile of being preached to with him going through the bible to tell my why he was right I finally told him that I had serious doubts about the bible and didn't believe it was the Word of God. This stopped him and he then looked at me and said that I sounded like I was an apostate. I looked at him back and told him that "yes, I think I am one". This stopped him for a moment and he then told me that I was sitting in judgement against God and that God would bring me back when He was ready. At this point I was angry. I could see a brainwashed, hate filled man in front of me. I told him that I didn't like the idea that people who have never heard of Jesus (including babies) were going to be tortured in hell forever and that I am judging God. I judged Him to be a blood thirsty Diety who wishes to watch His creation burn in hell. I told him that if God was prepared to send babies into hell then I have judged Him as a god I want nothing to do with. He then went on reading and preaching from the bible I listened to my own thoughts and realized that I had no fear in what he was telling me. I didn't fear this "god" he was telling me about. I suddenly didn't worry about hell or what if God did exist and doomed me. I looked at him with pity and saw that his mentality was locked into the Dark Ages. He would have fit in perfectly during the Salem witch trials and probably would have been one of the men holding the torches. I left that night feeling better about things. I even told him that his talk has strengthen my reslove to get away from this god he preaches. He wanted me to bring him a list of bible problems and contradictions so he could destroy it and bring me back into the fold. I actually would like this challenge. Does anyone here know of a good site that lists biblical problems in a clear, concise manner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 I have a better idea. This person is a co-worker right? Tell him what you read during your breaktime, and what you do with your life beyond the workplace are NONE of his affair, and you do not wish to converse with him any further on that subject. If he persists, repeat: "The subject is closed I have work to do." untill he goes away. You really don't want to get into this shit at work. It's not worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Does anyone here know of a good site that lists biblical problems in a clear, concise manner? http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim...radictions.html http://atheism.about.com/od/errorsinthebibl/ http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/DarkBibleContents.htm http://www.evilbible.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 I have a better idea. This person is a co-worker right? Tell him what you read during your breaktime, and what you do with your life beyond the workplace are NONE of his affair, and you do not wish to converse with him any further on that subject. If he persists, repeat: "The subject is closed I have work to do." untill he goes away. You really don't want to get into this shit at work. It's not worth it. The choice to engage this guy or not is, of course, up to you South Dakota. However I am leaning towards agreement with White Raven in this matter. I doubt he will change his mind and it will only serve to cause friction at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgnosticBob AtheistPants Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 I have been out of the Church for all of 9 days and last night at work a Fundalmentalist Christian found a book that I had been reading during lunch about problems with the bible and he didn't like it. He came up to me while I was minding my own business and he started to question me about it. He started talking about how great the bible was and quoted several passages to me and I got angry and decided to go for it. I told him about the various contradiction I have seen in the bible and he responded that there were no contradictions at all. I gave him a few and he then gave me a long sermon on how God was right and that it wasn't a contradiction. He then proceeded to tell me that even babies would go to hell since they are not saved. That even people who have never heard of Jesus would be going to hell because God is God and can do what He wants. I am not the best speaker in the world and it is hard for me to get across my thoughts into words sometimes but after awhile of being preached to with him going through the bible to tell my why he was right I finally told him that I had serious doubts about the bible and didn't believe it was the Word of God. This stopped him and he then looked at me and said that I sounded like I was an apostate. I looked at him back and told him that "yes, I think I am one". This stopped him for a moment and he then told me that I was sitting in judgement against God and that God would bring me back when He was ready. At this point I was angry. I could see a brainwashed, hate filled man in front of me. I told him that I didn't like the idea that people who have never heard of Jesus (including babies) were going to be tortured in hell forever and that I am judging God. I judged Him to be a blood thirsty Diety who wishes to watch His creation burn in hell. I told him that if God was prepared to send babies into hell then I have judged Him as a god I want nothing to do with. He then went on reading and preaching from the bible I listened to my own thoughts and realized that I had no fear in what he was telling me. I didn't fear this "god" he was telling me about. I suddenly didn't worry about hell or what if God did exist and doomed me. I looked at him with pity and saw that his mentality was locked into the Dark Ages. He would have fit in perfectly during the Salem witch trials and probably would have been one of the men holding the torches. I left that night feeling better about things. I even told him that his talk has strengthen my reslove to get away from this god he preaches. He wanted me to bring him a list of bible problems and contradictions so he could destroy it and bring me back into the fold. I actually would like this challenge. Does anyone here know of a good site that lists biblical problems in a clear, concise manner? I would be careful here. There are lists out there, but they are generally put together hastily by atheists that just want to have a nice "body count" rather than take down the Generals. This list from the American Atheists site is decent. American Atheists - Biblical Contradictions Here's another, but a few of these are easily dismissed by the Christian. List of Biblical Contradictions The lineage of Jesus in order for him to be the "messiah" is also a contradiction. The term messiah is of Hebrew origin, so Jews ought to be able to pretty fully explain the requirements of a candidate, shouldn't they? Here is a Jewish Rabbi's take on one reason Jesus does not fulfill these requirements and CANNOT be the messiah. Jews Believe that Jesus was not the Messiah Good luck with your attempts to confound your Christian nemesis. Just be prepared for him to completely refuse to accept and understand ANYTHING you say that goes against his faith. Brainwashing is a terrible thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 SD'05.. Pick your fights carefully. There are more fuckin' idiots than you have time to breath in any given day. You will NOT win any discussions nor arguments with someone still steeped and invested in the KryastKult. Think back a few years and see where your mind and head was. Remember the absolute loyalty, right down to singing christian songs in your head to drone out your coworkers "secular music"? Think then to today, you are trying to pound the mortar out of someones mental joints with raw *KABOOM*. Won't work on most, and in the end all you have is a pissed off coworker and someone who is now going to be actively hostile to you when considering *religion*. I'm not saying be a wallflower and sit and *take it*. Do load up with the knowledge that the system that holds the secular sort up is illusion and fairy tales. Don't use the bible to discredit the bible.. You'll end up like a pair of old geezers yakking back and forth the validity of their denomination verses all others... I have a method warranted to piss off all secularists. Don't think it would work kindly for you, but it is a simple "PHUKEWE!" repeated as many times as it takes until the cretin goes away.. There are lots of battles left in your life SD'05, don't allow them to pick where and what you fight with. kFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southdakota2005 Posted January 10, 2007 Author Share Posted January 10, 2007 good advise everyone. I really am not interested in "evangelizing" others to my position. I just want to be left alone. But I guess I got angry because he was so "in my face" without me doing anything or saying anything to him. I think I will just try not to talk about it and change the subject when I can. But I tell you it was funny being on the other side of the fence and having someone preaching to me as though I was some great sinner. Now I know how obnoxious it was and how it violates my right to be left alone and not have to listen to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 What I had to do when I shared a cubicle with a fundy was to simply refuse to talk about religion outright. Everytime he brought it up I would say "I don't care to discuss that subject, can we please talk about something else?" And sometimes I would have to repeat it because he'd keep bringing up religion. I had to be really assertive with him. Also, you are at work. You have the luxury of saying "I'm really too busy to talk to you," if he tries to bug you, even if you're not busy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poonis Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Does anyone here know of a good site that lists biblical problems in a clear, concise manner? Here is a challenge you can have him do: Referencing Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, have him write out a chronological timeline of the events surrounding the last days of Jesus, using every verse. Chronologically it cannot be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubilant Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Does anyone here know of a good site that lists biblical problems in a clear, concise manner? Here is a challenge you can have him do: Referencing Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, have him write out a chronological timeline of the events surrounding the last days of Jesus, using every verse. Chronologically it cannot be done. Fundy parroted bullshit: But that is because the gospel writers were like witnesses to a car accident, no one will have the same exact version and it is for that reason that we know that the gospels are true. It doesn't matter that they don't line up, what matters is they reach the same conclusion. We used to have sermons on that whole issue. Yes it is bologna BUT that is their reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Fundy parroted bullshit: But that is because the gospel writers were like witnesses to a car accident, no one will have the same exact version and it is for that reason that we know that the gospels are true. It doesn't matter that they don't line up, what matters is they reach the same conclusion. We used to have sermons on that whole issue. Yes it is bologna BUT that is their reasoning. True, but even witnesses to a car accident would notice if one person were driving more than one car at a time. And if, during this car accident, hundreds of dead people rose out of the ground and walked throough the city, all your witnesses should mention it, or you've got to wonder if they are all witnessing the same accident in the same city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poonis Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Fundy parroted bullshit: But that is because the gospel writers were like witnesses to a car accident, no one will have the same exact version and it is for that reason that we know that the gospels are true. It doesn't matter that they don't line up, what matters is they reach the same conclusion. We used to have sermons on that whole issue. Yes it is bologna BUT that is their reasoning. I'm not sure I understand you; even though fundamentalists adhere to a literal translation of the bible, it doesn't matter if the chronology doesn't literally line up? And even though you say it doesn't matter that the stories don't line up why, as an atheist, does it matter to you that they reach the same conclusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caretaker Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 "That even people who have never heard of Jesus would be going to hell because God is God and can do what He wants. " At this point, I would be Oh So inclined to tell him to fuck off, but I would probably think for about 5 more seconds before deciding to just give him a stern warning that if he continued, that I would interpret it as harassment and may take action, up to possibly legal action (if in the workplace) if he did not stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtdude Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 ....He then proceeded to tell me that even babies would go to hell since they are not saved. That even people who have never heard of Jesus would be going to hell because God is God and can do what He wants. .... I just love to hear Jesus-lovin' True Believers disembowel themselves on the Number One Reason Why Christianity Is Complete Rot. No one can believe this sort of crap without it seriously making them wacked in the brain. Is it any wonder all of us apostates suffer from some sort of post traumatic syndrome, even at a rather mild level? We actually went along with this, and I'll bet some of us even let out an "amen brother" when reminded of how "loving" our god was to admit us into his blessed prescense. Blech. Makes me wanna gag. Not even a reason to ever pick a fight w/ him again, in my book. You cannot reason with zealots who believe in a deity this bloodthirsty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YDOAPS Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 ....He then proceeded to tell me that even babies would go to hell since they are not saved. That even people who have never heard of Jesus would be going to hell because God is God and can do what He wants. .... I just love to hear Jesus-lovin' True Believers disembowel themselves on the Number One Reason Why Christianity Is Complete Rot. No one can believe this sort of crap without it seriously making them wacked in the brain. The other option is worse. If babies and people never exposed to Christianity go to Hell, then missionaries are the most evil people alive. They, and pastors, and lay Christians, etc. are responsible for the most suffering the universe has ever seen. You'd think the people who hold this view would keep Jesus to themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I'd say stay out of arguments until you understand your own new view pretty darn good. If you already have studied the bible and know it well you are ahead of most Christians that may challenge you. Now you need time to put this knowledge into the new context that this guy confirmed for you. Here are a couple of good resources: http://www.whydoesgodhateamputees.com/ & http://godisimaginary.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southdakota2005 Posted January 11, 2007 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 I'd say stay out of arguments until you understand your own new view pretty darn good. If you already have studied the bible and know it well you are ahead of most Christians that may challenge you. Now you need time to put this knowledge into the new context that this guy confirmed for you. Here are a couple of good resources: http://www.whydoesgodhateamputees.com/ & http://godisimaginary.com/ Excellent web sites! Thanks very much. And I will take your advise and not get into arguments until I get much more knowledge in what I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 For the most part, I would personally not read anything controversial at work, even on a lunch break, if I take lunch at my desk or in the cafeteria. Some supervisors will use that against you if you live in an at-will employment state, even though it's stupid, especially if you do contract work and the supervisors are fundies. Can you go out for lunch? That way, your co-workers can't complain, especially since it was off the company premesis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker630 Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 I don't think anyone else has mentioned it but just type "Skeptic's Annotated Bible" into your search engine. Very good sight. List contradictions, absurdities, scientific impossiblities in the Bible, atrocities and more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker630 Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 Oh and I almost forgot SD05----------Nest time he starts in on you you might want to ask hime who he's trying to convince----you-----------or him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bellatrix Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Next time he starts in on you, firmly tell him that it is not appropriate conversation for work, and that you are not interested in getting into a possible vicious theological debate. That can only breed tension and bad feelings between you, which could be very unpleasant if you ever have to work with the guy in the future, and you aren't going to convince each other anyway. After telling him this, walk away, even if he tries to bait you by having the last word. Pity him, in his ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southdakota2005 Posted January 16, 2007 Author Share Posted January 16, 2007 Thanks for the advice. I think I will take it and not talk about religion with him. I will just say that I don't want to talk about it and stop talking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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