Llwellyn Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 If it were Islam that we were deconverting from, we would face the death penalty, enforceable by any Muslim who heard about our deconversion and was able able to discover our identities. Apostasy from Islam is punishable by death according to the Quran. As bad as Christianity is, Islam is far worse. Islam too, believes in divine vengeance for unbelievers. But on top of that, they don't have an ethic of compassion, mercy and charity that is taught in Christianity. Islamic ideology is more totalitarian than Christianity, and brooks less dissent. The focus on world domination is stronger in Islam than Christianity. And, whereas Christianity imagines its growth to be the result of individual conversions of the conscience, Islam is happy to imagine that world domination will come through sheer brute force, violence and intimidation. Islam is a filthy religion full of megalomaniacs and dimwits. It is going to be a threat to humanity for as long as the species survives. Christianity sucks, but Islam sucks harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Xianity used to be as bad as Is-lame, but it's experienced so many years of internal dissent and fracturing, it's been rendered only a psychological danger. The churches possess virtually none of the power they once had. I agree; Is-lame is by far a more dangerous thing, as it still represents a physical danger to human beings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitchu Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Interesting. I just clicked over to Ex-C from a long search to try to find out if any measures at all had been taken by the Saudi government to guarantee against an occurrence like the one in March, 2002. So far, I've found nothing. I've just emailed CEDAW about it, so we'll see. Anyway, for those who don't remember the story, which got about one one-thousandth the air time of the Trump-Rosie Mouth-off, here it is: http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMD...&of=ENG-SAU Amnesty International is gravely concerned at reports that 14 girls have lost their lives and dozens of others were injured following a fire at their school in Mecca on 11 March 2002 after the religious police (Mutawa'een) prevented them from escaping from the fire because they were not wearing headscarves and their male relatives were not there to receive them. The religious police are also reported to have prevented rescuers from entering the school because they were males and therefore not permitted to mix with females. "If these reports are true, this is a tragic illustration of how gender discrimination can have lethal consequences." "When state policies on segregation of sexes are implemented at the expense of human life, urgent steps are needed at the highest level. Policies and practises through which the lives of women and girls are devalued must be changed." Amnesty International welcomes calls for an urgent investigation into these tragic deaths to prevent any future recurrence and for anyone found responsible to be brought to justice. The findings of such investigation must be made public. Saudi Arabia must take urgent measures to end all forms of discrimination against women in accordance with CEDAW ( Convention on Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women ), to which Saudi Arabia is a state party. Background The Saudi Arabian English language daily Arab News quoted eye witnesses as having said: ''Whenever the girls got out through the main gate, these people [Mutawa'een] forced them to return via another'',...''instead of extending a helping hand for the rescue work, they were using their hands to beat us.'' I'd say this is definitive religious barbarism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxic Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 If it were Islam that we were deconverting from, we would face the death penalty, enforceable by any Muslim who heard about our deconversion and was able able to discover our identities. Apostasy from Islam is punishable by death according to the Quran. As bad as Christianity is, Islam is far worse. Islam too, believes in divine vengeance for unbelievers. But on top of that, they don't have an ethic of compassion, mercy and charity that is taught in Christianity. Islamic ideology is more totalitarian than Christianity, and brooks less dissent. Xtian ideology was pretty totalitarian in up until the Renaissance. The focus on world domination is stronger in Islam than Christianity. And, whereas Christianity imagines its growth to be the result of individual conversions of the conscience, Islam is happy to imagine that world domination will come through sheer brute force, violence and intimidation. Lets not forget that Xtianity became the main religion in Europe and the Americas through sheer brute force, violence and intimidation. Islam is a filthy religion full of megalomaniacs and dimwits. It is going to be a threat to humanity for as long as the species survives. Christianity sucks, but Islam sucks harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Historically, I see no difference between christianity and islam. I see no real difference in it at present. While certain radical sects of islam may be targeting you and me because we live in the united states, certain radical sects of christianity are targeting gays, lesbians, abortion advocates and others, and they are killing them. Does Matthew Sheperd mean anything to you? Barnett Slepian? Around the world, there is much killing on both sides. Christian may be a bit more "friendly" at the moment, but I don't trust it as far as I can throw it. Do some research on Dominionism and Christian Reconstructionism. There's a shitload of christians right here in the U.S. that would kill us "infidels" in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Christianity sucks, but Islam sucks harder. Eh, as much as I dislike it, I have to grant the muslims that there are quite some parts of their koran that preach kindness, charity and so on. The only difference is that islam currently (or so it seems) leans even more toward the radical side in all its interpretations of their particular bullshitty book. No wonder. The muslims have much more reason to feel like "the losers" than those fat complacent jebus cultists in the countries they more or less run (= the western world). And I definitely did meet reasonable muslims in my life. They weren't fundies of course, but then, it's just the same with the jebus cult, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Around the world, there is much killing on both sides. Christian may be a bit more "friendly" at the moment, but I don't trust it as far as I can throw it. Do some research on Dominionism and Christian Reconstructionism. There's a shitload of christians right here in the U.S. that would kill us "infidels" in a heartbeat. So true... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sage Nabooru Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 I have to say that Islam is a terrible, terrible religion. I'm a liberal, but not one of those liberals willing to talk about how Islam is really all about rainbows and butterflies and how we, the evil Americans, have it all wrong. I wish I could say that, but reading their scriptures......I just can't. Out of the two choices, I would rather live under a Christian totalitarian government than a Muslim one. A Christian government historically believes that sinners that admit their guilt can be rehabbed into a good Christian life. Islam just beheads, stones, mutilates, or house-arrests you without a second thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Shall we also mention the horrific practice by Muslims of Female Genital Mutilation, Clitorectomies. They do this on young girls, many times with broken glass, dull razors and such, with no anesthetc, the lucky ones do get it done in hospitals, If the the very young girl, for instance 4 years old, dies from infection, it's god's punishment because she was a whore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitchu Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Anyone making general comparisons between the tone, intent, claims and "scriptures" of the two religions is missing the point. It's the actual broadly-condoned practices that mark the difference in the horror quotient between them. When fourteen schoolgirls have to be burned to death because they were unlucky enough to be without a strip of fabric over their heads at the moment a fire broke out, that's worth noting as significant difference, no? As Taph points out, female genital mutilation and all its concommitant cruelties may be worth noting as a big difference between the two. If not a single aspect of treatment of its male followers were at play, the treatment, under Islam, of its women, day in and day out, for centuries, should be enough to settle the issue. If half the population of any group, anywhere on the planet, is treated like this, there is no word powerful enough for condemnation. It's the women, folks. It's the women. Women. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2092-2092167,00.html Women at war with the mullahs What drives a woman to risk a fatwa by attacking Islam. Christopher Goodwin reports It would be hard to imagine a place more remote from the violence and turmoil of the Middle East than this quiet cul-de-sac in the southern suburbs of Los Angeles. But as David Sultan opens the front door of his home he glances up and down the street anxiously. He has good reason to be nervous: ever since Dr Wafa Sultan, his wife, appeared on Al-Jazeera, the Arabic television network, last summer she has been receiving death threats. During that and a second broadcast in February Dr Sultan, who was brought up as a Muslim in Syria, denounced the teachings and practice of Islam as “barbaric” and “medieval”. * “The clash we are witnessing around the world is not a clash of religions, or a clash of civilisations,” the impassioned 47-year-old told Al-Jazeera’s stunned audience across the Arab world. “It is a clash between civilisation and backwardness, between the civilised and the primitive, between barbarity and rationality. It is a clash between human rights on the one hand and the violation of these rights on the other, between those who treat women like beasts and those who treat them like human beings.” <snip> Sitting in the airy living room of the spacious modern home where Sultan and her husband live, it is hard to believe this small, neatly dressed woman could be at the centre of an international firestorm. Just as improbable is that the most important and controversial critics of Islamic fundamentalism, violence and intolerance are, like Sultan, women, mostly from Islamic countries. They include Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the Somali-born Dutch politician, who has strongly criticised Islamic attitudes towards women and the widespread practice of female circumcision in Muslim north Africa; Irshad Manji, a Canadian lesbian of Pakistani descent, whose book The Trouble with Islam Today chastises Islam for its aggression towards women and for its anti-semitism; Amina Wadud, an African-American convert to Islam and Muslim academic and author, who has infuriated traditional Muslims by leading Friday prayer for Muslims in New York, a role traditionally taken only by male imams. Other Muslim women in the front lines of the clash with Islamic governments are as diverse as Mukhtar Mai, the Pakistani village woman who was brutally gang-raped in 2002 as reprisal for an alleged transgression by her 14-year-old brother, and Shirin Ebadi, the Iranian lawyer who was awarded the Nobel peace prize in 2003 for her defence of the rights of women and children in fundamentalist Muslim Iran. Death threats against these women are commonplace. Irshad Manji has had to install bullet-proof windows in her home. Ayaan Hirsi Ali has to travel everywhere with bodyguards after the threats against her and the death the film maker Theo van Gogh, her friend and collaborator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 "Points Go Out" kFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llwellyn Posted January 16, 2007 Author Share Posted January 16, 2007 Here is Part One of UK Channel 4 documentary Dispatches: Undercover Mosque. Billed as "exposing evidence of Islamic supremacism, shocking misogyny, and support for violence at a number of Britain’s leading mosques and Muslim institutions." Dispatches: Undercover Mosque Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DucorpsToo Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Pitchu, I do remember that incident about those schoolgirls. Thanks for reposting it. I tell ya, if there is a Dante's "Inferno", I think that those so-called "religious police" (mutawaa) should be the first ones thrown into its deepest bowels for allowing the needless deaths of those schoolgirls! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT45 Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Since Islam really is dangerous, do you think more freethinkers should critique their religion as much as we critique christianity? The people currently debating them are christians and in most of the christian vs. muslim debates I've seen the muslims usually win. I know some atheist attack them but I'd love to see some more done to them. I would definetly buy a second edition of the God delusion if it had verses from the quran. It would be a great way to show them that we aren't afraid and we feel that all ideas should be open to challenges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitchu Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Llewellyn, that is a chilling documentary. My sympathies are with European nations trying honorably to deal with this in their midst. DucorpsToo, somehow it's very important to me to know that you remember those schoolgirls. ******** Supporting the Islamic apostates, whether with emails, letters, visits to their websites, purchasing of their books, or just remembering them and continuing to talk about their bravery is, imo, one of the best things that can be done. The recent advent of virulent Islam has been the thing which drove me away from believing in cultural relativism. I pick and choose my favorite cultures, now, based on what I can know of their dedication to practices which, according to my own admitted prejudices, support human life and human happiness. "Torture is not culture." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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