Admin webmdave Posted January 16, 2007 Admin Share Posted January 16, 2007 By Joey Hackl When the topic of god or religion comes up, anything an atheist has to say on the topic will be considered blasphemy by a christian. This is because the atheist does not believe in god so anything he says will be under the assumption that there is no god. This is an insult to the believer and to the god he believes in and therefore is considered blasphemy. The atheist's mere lack of belief is considered blasphemy. The opposite of this, when a christian speaks under the assumption that god does exist, is not necessarily an insult to the atheist, but it is clearly raising a point of disagreement each time. It would be nice to be able to agree to disagree, but it is not that simple. You would expect that an equal amount of respect for eachother's beliefs (or lack thereof) and understanding is due from both parties, but the complexity of the situation makes it not so. For the atheist, it is natural not to think about god, not to talk about god or be concerned with anything religious, because he does not believe in it. For the christian, it has become natural to "recognize" most everything good in life as god's handywork and acknowledge it verbally, to pray, to talk about god and religious things openly. For many it has even become habbit to say "praise the lord" every few sentences in a regular conversation as often as one might say "uhuh" in agreement. There is nothing wrong with that, but when a christian communicates with an atheist this way a problem is born. In a debate, agreeing to disagree would mean closing the debate with both parties maintaining their original opinion; a peaceful truce. There are a few reasons why it is not so simple for christians and atheists to agree to disagree. While the atheist has no reason to bring god into a conversation, which of course would reignite the fire of disagreement, the christian does. While both parties are being their natural selves, the christian raises the topic of disagreement consciously or unconsciously. For example, a christian might open up a conversation with a natural statement like, "God really blessed us with beautiful weather this summer." Now, the atheist doesn't believe in god, so this is a false statement to him. Immediately he is forced to make a decision, assert his position that there is no god, or let it be to keep the peace. Letting it be sounds like a small sacrifice to make to keep the peace and in many circumstances it is. The problem is when the atheist becomes marginalized by it. By freely proclaiming god in the face of the atheist while expecting him to keep his own opinions and comments to himself, because his opinions are blasphemy, the christian reopens the debate, but this time the atheist has a handicap. He is not allowed to speak. Imagine an atheist responded to every occurence of a christian bringing up god in their presence: Christian: Praise god... Atheist: God does not exist... ... Christian: God protected me from the car accident... Atheist: God had nothing to do with it... The christian would be highly insulted and the atheist would be accused of intolerance. The thing is, continually stroking the topic of disagreement in the face of the atheist, by bringing it up all the time, while expecting them to let it be is religious intolerance. It is unfair to do this. While the atheist has no need or sense of urgency to convert people to his way of thinking, the christian feels they have a mandate to convert people to save them from hell. They are instructed to in the bible, the book on which the whole religion is based. This gives the christian even more of a sense of entitlement to bring up the topic in the face of atheists or people who do not believe what they do. Not only, but they tend to believe that atheists choose not to believe in their god and willingly deny an existing being. So there is also judgement involved. As an atheist, I find this extremely frustrating. Most of my family and friends are christians. I simply do not believe what they believe anymore, but I continually have to be immersed in their dogma simply to spend time with them. It is painful to have to stomach, what I consider false statements all evening long, simply to have a good and peaceful time with my family. I dare not respond with my opinions, because that would start fights and raise all sorts of negative feelings. I feel like a victim of religious intolerance, but I don't know what to do about the situation. I certainly cannot go and ask everyone to stop bringing up god in front of me, then I will be the intolerant one. I can't ask everybody to stop being themselves, stop being natural. What a mess! http://exchristian.net/exchristian/2007/01...ntolerance.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGJ@ReligionisBullshit Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 You should tell them that church is not for believers, says so in the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 By Joey HacklMost of my family and friends are christians. I simply do not believe what they believe anymore, but I continually have to be immersed in their dogma simply to spend time with them. It is painful to have to stomach, what I consider false statements all evening long, simply to have a good and peaceful time with my family. I dare not respond with my opinions, because that would start fights and raise all sorts of negative feelings. I am in much of the same boat. I've learned to tune out much of the God talk or simply hear what they are trying to say despite the God talk. All the God talk does not make me feel pain however. I actually feel somewhat embarrassed for them. After all, now when I hear the word "God", I often think "imaginary friend/parent." So this is what I hear... blah blah blah, praise my imaginary friend/parent! This leads me to feel embarrassed for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Yeah, it is frustrating. Especially if it's not family, but in a place like work, where you have to nod and smile, nod and smile. Or at least nod, for fear of losing your job if you say anything the Christian deems intolerant and complains to the boss or HR about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anakin Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Yeah, it is frustrating. Especially if it's not family, but in a place like work, where you have to nod and smile, nod and smile. Or at least nod, for fear of losing your job if you say anything the Christian deems intolerant and complains to the boss or HR about. Especially when certain coworkers know you've been told to be quiet and purposely use god talk to provoke you into saying anything they can claim offense at. Nothing said by christian coworkers will ever be judged as "intolerant" by a supervisor who agrees with their views. Unless that supervisor is the rare type that can actually separate their faith from their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hunibear Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 My family get togethers are almost the opposite. We were all once Christians. Then we grew up moved appart. Now holiday meals are the, we don't mention anything controvercial (sp?). No God, No religion, we bless the meal now and then, No politics, we can talk about superficial TV shows about imaginary peoples lives. What a life, no more family bonding or intemacy, leaves one empty. Could it be we all forgot how to be real? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Hi BRose. You ask how things work. Technologically, we can post a response to what you say like I am doing here. This is called a post. We can also send you a private message, which is called a pm. If I click on your name, I think a drop-box will let me choose to send you a pm. I did not check your profile. You can set it so we can send you email if you like. I tend to stick with pm until I know a person a bit because email reveals real names and personal information. Thus, I am not quite sure what you mean when you invite emails. You can also do all these things for others. On the political level, most of us here are ex-Christians. Very many of us have had extremely bad experiences at the hands of Christians or Christianity. I am sure you have some idea of what that does to people. Bitterness. Anger. Suspicion of anyone who professes to believe in God. So far you seem to be okay. Honest and open. QUESTION: What brings you here if you're a) not deconverting, don't want to convert anyone, and c) aren't asking questions about god's existence and the bible's veracity/truthfulness? You may want to be aware that the mere suggestion that we simply have not yet come to the realization of god's existence triggers some people off big time. Why does this happen? Because we WERE Christians. Real, living, breathing, witnessing, and in some case preaching and baptizing and evangelizing Christians. We sacrificed and denied ourselves and gave up all kinds of things for god--we would have died for our faith had the opportunity presented itself. By some path or other, we have all thought things through VERY CAREFULLY. We came to the realization that religion is simply a farce. We faced the threats of hell. We weighed the possibility of spending eternity in a lake of fire. We weighed. We sifted. We sorted. We questioned. We read. We prayed. We did all that is humanly possibly. In spite of all this agony of soul, which for some people lasted decades, we arrived at the conclusion that for the sake of conscience and personal integrity we must turn our back on religion. This (the above) is what I gather from reading the stories on this forum of many people's experiences. It seems that on this forum it is politically incorrect to suggest a person has "not yet" become a Christian. So that's a few things about "how things work" here. I'm sure that if you come across to the group as being sensitive and respectful that you will be welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 My family get togethers are almost the opposite. We were all once Christians. Then we grew up moved appart. Now holiday meals are the, we don't mention anything controvercial (sp?). No God, No religion, we bless the meal now and then, No politics, we can talk about superficial TV shows about imaginary peoples lives. What a life, no more family bonding or intemacy, leaves one empty. Could it be we all forgot how to be real? Are you suggesting that because we don't believe in god we don't know how to be real??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 By Joey Hackl When the topic of god or religion comes up, anything an atheist has to say on the topic will be considered blasphemy by a christian. This is because the atheist does not believe in god so anything he says will be under the assumption that there is no god. This is an insult to the believer and to the god he believes in and therefore is considered blasphemy. The atheist's mere lack of belief is considered blasphemy. The opposite of this, when a christian speaks under the assumption that god does exist, is not necessarily an insult to the atheist, but it is clearly raising a point of disagreement each time. It would be nice to be able to agree to disagree, but it is not that simple. Joey, in case you're following up on this, THANKS! Once again, I gave humans too much credit. I found it incomprehensible some of the things I have been accused of. I have been accused of being disrespectful of Christians and for pushing my beliefs when I merely presented ideas. I was dumbfounded. What you say here makes sense. The world, the cosmos, is defined by christians. They think they have this right and priviledge simply because they follow this particular ancient cult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hunibear Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 [Are you suggesting that because we don't believe in god we don't know how to be real??? God believers or not I think Americans have learned to live behind many masks, for whatever the situation, and very few reveal their true selves to others. I believe the churches are filled with many people wearing the christian mask, but when they leave church the christian mask comes off and the are very hurtful people at home and work. It stinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hunibear Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 [Are you suggesting that because we don't believe in god we don't know how to be real??? God believers or not I think Americans have learned to live behind many masks, for whatever the situation, and very few reveal their true selves to others. I believe the churches are filled with many people wearing the christian mask, but when they leave church the christian mask comes off and the are very hurtful people at home and work. It stinks. I want to clarify that above statement. I am talking about people still in the church, not the people that consider themselves ex-christians. I would rather people leave the church than to stay in church pretending to be a devoted christians. I don't want to come across rude to ex-christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 God believers or not I think Americans have learned to live behind many masks, for whatever the situation, and very few reveal their true selves to others. I believe the churches are filled with many people wearing the christian mask, but when they leave church the christian mask comes off and the are very hurtful people at home and work. It stinks. It does stink, but why is a "hurtful" attitude un-xian? There is much hatred and many prejudices inherent in Xian belief and dogma, and expressed in the Babble, so being hurtful and hateful is just part and parcel of being a Xian. Teachings that all gays and fornicators and non-believers will burn in Hell eternally, stories of God ordering his armies to pillage and murder in the Old Testament, divine edicts from a god that clearly implies its egotistical mentality - it's no wonder many Xians who take the Babble seriously are also abrasive in their personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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