Nihil Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 My grandparents sent me a christmas card. So I sent them a card. So my gramma writes me a letter thanking me for the card (out of all her children/grandchildren/greatgrandchildren, she got 2 cards). It was a nice letter, and I was enjoying reading it, until I got to this part: "I'm going to ask you a question, and hope that you will write me back with an answer. 'How do you feel about God?'" FUCK! There goes my warm fuzzy. Unfortunately, I can't just shot my gramma, due to a crippling weakness called love. And as much as I'd like to make my stance clear and say God (any god) is a fucking security blanket, and an excuse for people to kill each other, her recent poor health tugs at the few shreads of kindness I have left. So I'm probably going to puss out and just say I'm too busy trying to keep a roof over my head to worry about things like that. I am a worthless whore. Thanks a lot, Gramma. All I wanted was to have some kind of contact with you, even if its just letters, but you had to go and make things akward for me by putting me on the spot. Now I have to walk a line between my principles and your feelings. I love you, but at the same time, fuck you. I just wanted to get that off my chest. Thanks for tuning in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Now I have to walk a line between my principles and your feelings. I hear you loud and clear Nihil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Ah, I hate stuff like that. I've had similar experiences when trying to talk to old friends and family though written communication. For some reason, they always seem to want to sabotage it by asking questions about "what religion are you", "do you love Jesus", "tell me your thoughts on God", etc.. I know answering them honestly will piss them off (because when I do answer honestly and tell people I'm an Atheist they get really mad at me.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exbeliever Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Similar occurrence for me last night. Something really nice happened to me as a direct result of working my ass off for it. I called my mom to tell her my good news, and she was really excited for me. Then . . . "Now [my name], you have just got to thank the Lord for that. I know you are running away from him right now or something, but he saved you when you were a little boy and he's still taking care of you now. You have to see the Lord's hand in all of this." So, now the conversation is hi-jacked and I just wanted to talk about this event. I just giggled it off and started talking about the details of my good news, and she listened for a while. Then, she went back and basically repeated the same thing and kind of stopped waiting for my response. I had to say something, so I just said, "Mama [i'm originally from the South], I just wanted to share this with you; you don't have to preach at me." She took it well and went on without bringing it back up, but I got the same feeling you described about your grandmother. We were sharing a nice moment between humans, but it was messed up by this weird intrusion of God. It really kind of spoiled the moment. I knew it was coming. I even predicted it. I was talking with some of the people involved in my news [it was a financial reward for an academic achievement] and told them that I had to call my family so they could tell me that I had nothing to do with it and that it was all God's doing. One guy laughed and (truthfully) said, "Make sure to tell them that everyone involved in the process is an atheist." Sorry that you have to face that awkward situation, Nihil. I think you are right to avoid any direct discussion of your beliefs. What I've always told my mom is that I'm just taking a step back from all of it so that I can figure out what I really believe. I've been "stepping back" for over 4 years now, so she's starting to suspect something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 "The crippling weakness called love"! I'm glad I don't have that. Like the rest of you I've had to deal with religious elders who unfairly use a combination of the "love" and "respect your elders" manipulation/intimidation technique. UNLIKE most of you, I'm just evil enough to tell everyone to get fucked when the subject comes up. It NEVER comes up any more. I don't have any problem cutting people out of my life when they piss me off, and the survivors ALL know this. So people tread carefully around ME, not the other way around. For example: My 80-yr old Baptist mother called me one day to encourage me to get out of the house and do something. (I'm retired.) She said, "idle hands are the devil's plaything." I replied, "Well, then I don't have to worry, because I don't believe in the devil, just as I don't believe in god." She knows that I'm an atheist, but she sputtered for a moment and tried to evangelize me anyway, but I rudely cut her off and said I'm not talking to her about retarded bullshit. She readily changed the subject, since I've been known to hang up in the middle of conversations and then not take anymore calls for years. People, it's fucking awesome being evil. You really should try it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Posted January 17, 2007 Author Share Posted January 17, 2007 "The crippling weakness called love"! I'm glad I don't have that. Like the rest of you I've had to deal with religious elders who unfairly use a combination of the "love" and "respect your elders" manipulation/intimidation technique. UNLIKE most of you, I'm just evil enough to tell everyone to get fucked when the subject comes up. It NEVER comes up any more. I don't have any problem cutting people out of my life when they piss me off, and the survivors ALL know this. So people tread carefully around ME, not the other way around. For example: My 80-yr old Baptist mother called me one day to encourage me to get out of the house and do something. (I'm retired.) She said, "idle hands are the devil's plaything." I replied, "Well, then I don't have to worry, because I don't believe in the devil, just as I don't believe in god." She knows that I'm an atheist, but she sputtered for a moment and tried to evangelize me anyway, but I rudely cut her off and said I'm not talking to her about retarded bullshit. She readily changed the subject, since I've been known to hang up in the middle of conversations and then not take anymore calls for years. People, it's fucking awesome being evil. You really should try it! Ummmm.... Can I be your apprentice, Darth Checkmate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Wow... So far no one in my family has asked me about that... A kind of friend, asked me last night what I believed.. she knows I am a ex-christian..I said I don't know exactly.. would like to belive in a higher power but can not believe in christianity. Tried to skip around it a bit... I don't know what I would do if asked... gee that is kind of akward.. cause you know they are going to be worrying about your soul if you tell them you don't believe in god... and when they are old you often don't want to upset them by rejecting everything that they believe in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 "The crippling weakness called love"! I'm glad I don't have that. Like the rest of you I've had to deal with religious elders who unfairly use a combination of the "love" and "respect your elders" manipulation/intimidation technique. UNLIKE most of you, I'm just evil enough to tell everyone to get fucked when the subject comes up. It NEVER comes up any more. I don't have any problem cutting people out of my life when they piss me off, and the survivors ALL know this. So people tread carefully around ME, not the other way around. For example: My 80-yr old Baptist mother called me one day to encourage me to get out of the house and do something. (I'm retired.) She said, "idle hands are the devil's plaything." I replied, "Well, then I don't have to worry, because I don't believe in the devil, just as I don't believe in god." She knows that I'm an atheist, but she sputtered for a moment and tried to evangelize me anyway, but I rudely cut her off and said I'm not talking to her about retarded bullshit. She readily changed the subject, since I've been known to hang up in the middle of conversations and then not take anymore calls for years. People, it's fucking awesome being evil. You really should try it! Hey, thanks for sharing this. I've been worried sick whether it's okay being this way. Sounds like you've got some life experience behind you and you say it's awesome. I'm at the stage where something has to give. I decided this time it won't be MY mental health that gives. Yes, there's aging parents in the situation. But if they ask questions I assume they want to know. The relationship has been seriously rocky for so many decades that they shouldn't be shocked by anything. They will go to their graves weeping for my lost soul. That's their choice. The sibs are taking over where the old folks left off. It's them (sibs) who are getting the brunt. I'm NOT taking it anymore. Of course, in their minds, this makes me evil. I just don't see it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Ummmm.... Can I be your apprentice, Darth Checkmate? Sure! But take care, young apprentice. Once start you down the dark path, consume you it will. I've lived my entire life living alone and liking it. The way I operate won't work for anyone who desires companionship and family. (Which I don't. A threat to "leave me" isn't a threat, but a gift! Don't let the door hit you in the ass, mate!) If family and friends are important to you, then you can't walk my road. It'll hurt YOU as much as it does them. I'll tell you what, though...once you've settled in your mind that being honest with yourself and others is NOT A FUCKING CRIME, it becomes disgustingly easy to be true to your values. The unfair, unrealistic and manipulative whinings of others will roll off you like water off a duck. You aren't doing a damn thing to hurt them...it's their OWN delusions causing them problems. Don't let THEIR psychosis ruin YOUR life as well as theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhampir Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 People, it's fucking awesome being evil. You really should try it! I'm working my way up to that. I was a bit alarmed to realize it's actually mild sociopathy, but I have accepted that now. Nihil: I think you should tell her exactly what you said in your OP, just perhaps in a way that won't induce a heart attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 I just tend to not reply to things like that. Luckily, I don't have nosy relatives, but if they did ask me something like that, I would ignore it or if they asked me in person, say that I don't care to discuss that and change the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Hey, thanks for sharing this. I've been worried sick whether it's okay being this way. Sounds like you've got some life experience behind you and you say it's awesome. I'm at the stage where something has to give. I decided this time it won't be MY mental health that gives. Yes, there's aging parents in the situation. But if they ask questions I assume they want to know. The relationship has been seriously rocky for so many decades that they shouldn't be shocked by anything. They will go to their graves weeping for my lost soul. That's their choice. The sibs are taking over where the old folks left off. It's them (sibs) who are getting the brunt. I'm NOT taking it anymore. Of course, in their minds, this makes me evil. I just don't see it that way. Hi RubySera! Yeah, as I said to Nihil, I've got a lifetime of experience with being my own person in the face of idiotic family pressures. I literally don't know how to operate any other way. I can't even imagine allowing someone else's emotional disturbances to push me into going against my better judgment. And even though I cavalierly toss around the word "evil", it's not really being evil. I just refuse to be pushed around by nitwits. I only do what I like to do, or what I TRULY am forced to do, and lying about my beliefs doesn't fall into either category. I refuse to be miserable because of someone else's belief system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 It's insidious the way our environment and our society conditions us to accept behavior from family that we would not tolerate from complete strangers, and make it seem resonable. Even going so far as to call it "love". Ever notice how flexible the definition of love seems to be? Men go to the store at 3 AM to get ice cream for pregnant wives because they "love" them. Fathers rape their daughters and sons because they "love" them. Brothers protect their sisters from schoolyard bullies because they "love" them. Women stay with abusive men who beat the crap out of them because they "love" them. Parents stay awake for hours after bedtime helping their kids toil over rough homework assignments because they "love" them. Mothers drown their struggling children in bathtubs because they "love" them. Love. Personally I can't think of a word in the english language that has been twisted and taken advantage of more than that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Love. Personally I can't think of a word in the english language that has been twisted and taken advantage of more than that one. That's what I like about you White Raven. You're so romantic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanakila Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 For some reason the word agnostic doesn't seem to bother people as much as atheist. I use that one when put on the spot most of the time. I don't communicate with my pentecostal father, but I am not so sure its because of the religious differences as much as I just quit having a one way relationship built on guilt and manipulation. I haven't talked to any of that side of my family except my step sister since last xmas when my real sister manipulated me into going to their family get-together. They don't call me, or write me, and so I don't call or write them. I am sure if my dad had my email (he can get it from my sister) he'd just send godspam and nothing of significance. My mom who is a deist who calls herself a christian because all americans are christian don't you know, didn't like it when I admitted I am an atheist because she just thinks I am being extreme again. I did use to be a super-fundy, and atheist is about as opposite as you can possibly be from there. So I calmed her down with the word agnostic. I am of course an agnostic atheist except when it comes to the xian bible god, but she doesn't think deeply enough about such things to understand the terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Posted January 18, 2007 Author Share Posted January 18, 2007 Men go to the store at 3 AM to get ice cream for pregnant wives because they "love" them. I thought they did it because it gets them away from their wives for a while... You are of course right. I don't love anyone. I hate the whole world and hope everyone chokes on their own vomit and dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 My grandparents sent me a christmas card. So I sent them a card. So my gramma writes me a letter thanking me for the card (out of all her children/grandchildren/greatgrandchildren, she got 2 cards). It was a nice letter, and I was enjoying reading it, until I got to this part: "I'm going to ask you a question, and hope that you will write me back with an answer. 'How do you feel about God?'" Answer: The same way he feels about me. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 You are of course right. I don't love anyone. I hate the whole world and hope everyone chokes on their own vomit and dies. Um....where do I say that? I said the definition of love was abused, not that love was nonexistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 You are of course right. I don't love anyone. I hate the whole world and hope everyone chokes on their own vomit and dies. Um....where do I say that? I said the definition of love was abused, not that love was nonexistent. White Raven, I think he meant you are right in that men get ice cream at 3:00 am for their pregnant wives because they love them. And then he added the rest as a quip about his personal inexperience with a pregnant wife and how he feels about the world and it inhabitants. In other words, he's single and intends to remain single. That's the way I read it first time around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Thanks RubySera! Else I'd look like a damn hypocrite. I now have a boyfriend. We are definitely in love. I've caught us being disgusting in public. You know....when a couple is speaking to a third party and they say the exact same thing simultaneously? Like a twins cliche'? Totally disgusting. But warm and fuzzy too. I'll stop derailing the thread now. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 For some reason the word agnostic doesn't seem to bother people as much as atheist. I use that one when put on the spot most of the time. I don't communicate with my pentecostal father, but I am not so sure its because of the religious differences as much as I just quit having a one way relationship built on guilt and manipulation. I haven't talked to any of that side of my family except my step sister since last xmas when my real sister manipulated me into going to their family get-together. They don't call me, or write me, and so I don't call or write them. I am sure if my dad had my email (he can get it from my sister) he'd just send godspam and nothing of significance. My mom who is a deist who calls herself a christian because all americans are christian don't you know, didn't like it when I admitted I am an atheist because she just thinks I am being extreme again. I did use to be a super-fundy, and atheist is about as opposite as you can possibly be from there. So I calmed her down with the word agnostic. I am of course an agnostic atheist except when it comes to the xian bible god, but she doesn't think deeply enough about such things to understand the terms. I've noticed that too. It's primarily why I say "agnostic" when pressed. I think half the time people don't even fully understand what agnostic means. It isn't that we are seeking for proof for a god, at least not most of the time. In my personal experience, most agnostics neither know nor care (hence are apathetic agnostics). I've yet to meet an agnostic IRL who was actively seeking proof of anything. Most of us are just too darn busy with our day jobs and our lives to care so much about something that probably doesn't exist anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 I'll tell you what, though...once you've settled in your mind that being honest with yourself and others is NOT A FUCKING CRIME, it becomes disgustingly easy to be true to your values. (stands on chair and applauds wildly) Well said. I'm going to take it even further and contend that such honesty is the only way to lead a genuine life. <EMBwBaM>Bad is good, baby!</EMBwBaM> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurari Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 I hear you. But I'm the Mistress of the Changed Subject. "How do you feel about God?" "Mm. Hey, (insert question about recent event in conversation companion's life here)?" It's amazing how fast someone will drop a discussion about God to talk about themselves instead. Works every time. If they manage to reroute the conversation back, I just do it again. With letters, I just "forget" to answer any particularly uncomfortable questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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