What Does Christianity Offer That Nothing Else Can? - Part 2

[Antlerman]

This topic is a continuation of my first posting this topic in the Coliseum. I am doing this in the interest of discussing this topic with CurrentChristian, who prefers to restrict his postings within the GTI thread. For a reference to the original thread that no other Christian was taking up, see here: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?showtopic=14091

 

I am reposting CC’s response to this question from another thread here in the GTI, as it needs to be it’s own topic. My current responses will be included in this post:

 

Antlerman, Before I go where angels fear to tread, let me confirm with you that I understand the question:

 

What does the Christian faith offer than other faiths do not?

I think I clarified it best in this post over in the thread. http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?s=&a...st&p=246971

 

Hi Antlerman! Not sure how good/valuable/interesting my response to your question is. Please feel free to rip it apart, seek clarification, call me an idiot (but do so kindly!), etc. Here goes:

 

There are lifestyle options that are easily recognizable (at least by me) as better/richer/wiser than others: It’s better to be hard worker than a slouch; it’s better to be a saver than a spender-of-every-penny-one-gets; it’s better to be drug-free than a coke-head. Hard work, conscientious spending and drug-free living offer much more possibility of contentment, happiness, and success in this life than do their alternatives. (Seems to me.) We could say the same about many other opposite alternatives.

 

Other lifestyle options, however, are not as easy to judge, if at all possible. Does being a teacher offer a better life and more fulfillment than being a doctor? Do those with children have it better off than those without? Are college-educated individuals happier than laborers? Who can say for any one individual which of these options is better? No one! It’s a matter of each person being an individual with unique needs, wants, desires, hopes, expectations and interests.

I am in agreement with these views, and this will lead to where I am heading with this question.

 

I think the same applies to religion. Both living one’s life as though there is no Being out there and living one’s life as though there is a Being out there are capable of offering fulfilling, stimulating, meaningful and intellectually fulfilling sources of happiness.

I agree with this.

 

My choice is to live as though there is a Creator-Source Being behind all life, a Being who was represented most perfectly in the historical Jesus revealed quite accurately (in my view) in the gospel narratives. What does this offer to me that non-theistic living cannot. I don’t know for sure, having never lived in a non-theistic way. But maybe Christian theism offers solace in sorrow, peace in pain, contentment in catastrophe, hope in “hell,” as well as great expectations, bountiful beauty, and constant companionship that non-theistic living cannot.

And where I was talking about things leading to my question, this is it: when you look in the world at other people who do not believe in a god, or follow a religious system, do you recognize that they in fact may well feel as fulfilled in their lives as you do in yours where you utilize a religious philosophy? Admitting that you do not know for sure, how do you maintain a belief that the Christian philosophy is the salvation that all mankind needs to follow, if that’s what you do believe?

 

Christianity offers to me the hope of resurrection for lost loved ones, friends, family, and indeed of my very own personality, completely healed of physical/psychological/spiritual ailments. Christianity offers hope of an ultimate fix for social injustice and economic inequality. It establishes the expectation that, in the final accounting, everything will pan out and everything will be set right.

I respect that it offers these comforting thoughts for you. I see these more as appeasements to address these emotional responses to the pain of living. However, are they a healthy thing ultimately? I question that. Isn’t acceptance a better road to peace, then praying for justice? Isn’t action a better road to change, then praying for help?

 

But the real point is, other beliefs that are not Christian likewise offer a “reason” for pain in the world to appease that sense of struggle. Christianity is not unique in these offerings of “comfort”.

 

Atheism offers none of this. This is not to say that atheists are wrong and that theists are right. But this was not the question. The question was a subjective one: What positive benefits are there to being Christian as opposed to being atheist?

I’m going to have to disagree with you here. It is true that a non-theistic philosophy generally doesn’t deal with the pain of living by offering hopes of some awaited paradise, but in my experience they offer a healthier way of dealing with these same issues by facing what is, rather than creating a hope in something outside the realm of the natural world. Hope is good indeed. But hope in ET? Hope in Zeus? Hope in Jesus? You see what I mean?

 

I am well aware that as long as we live (in this body) these alleged benefits of Christian belief remain very much in the mind of the believer. Whether or not these expectations ever come to be reality, they are nice to ponder and they offer much solace. If they don’t come to pass, nothing is lost, and we’ll never know. But if these ideas (resurrection, setting right injustice, world peace, etc.) do come to pass, what a glorious, absolutely glorious, day that will be!

I see what you mean on one hand, but I don’t know that I can agree that nothing is lost by believing it. I expended a great deal of energy in the hopes of faith, only to be left having to face the world anyway. I found that finding the strength in myself was far more beneficial than praying. Like I said earlier, isn’t acceptance a better road to peace, then praying for justice? Isn’t action a better road to change, then praying for help?

 

Even so, the bottom line is that these sorts of approaches to dealing with life are not unique. If Christianity is the ultimate truth that all mankind must come to, it honestly is not presenting itself as the universally helpful belief system. If it was in fact from the one and only true God, then all would benefit from it. It didn’t work for me, it didn’t work for everyone here. Is it us? Or is it as you said earlier, it’s what works for the individual? If so, then it’s an option, not The Truth.

[currentchristian]

I'm sorry, everyone, but I have not figured out the fancy-dancy way of quoting here and there the way Antlerman does, so please allow me to do this:

 

 

Antlerman wrote:

And where I was talking about things leading to my question, this is it: when you look in the world at other people who do not believe in a god, or follow a religious system, do you recognize that they in fact may well feel as fulfilled in their lives as you do in yours where you utilize a religious philosophy? Admitting that you do not know for sure, how do you maintain a belief that the Christian philosophy is the salvation that all mankind needs to follow, if that’s what you do believe?

 

CC's response:

Absolutely, yes! My experiences have taught me that there are wonderfully happy, fulfilled, loving men and women who belong to all religions and no religion, all ethnic and cultural groups, all socioeconomic groups, etc. The truth of Christian philosophy does not negate the truth of other philosophies. Not at all. If Italian food best meets your hunger needs and Chinese most fully meets mine, so what. Both are true. There are things Christian philosophy offers than perhaps other philosophies do not. But these have meaning only if these things are what someone wants. Jesus said, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to me." If one does not thirst, why go to Jesus? There is no need. I, for one, do thirst, and so I go to Jesus. (And as far as I know, it is in Christ that all who are "saved" will be saved, whatever their religion or philosophy or lack of one or the other might be in this life.)

 

 

Antlerman wrote:

I respect that it offers these comforting thoughts for you. I see these more as appeasements to address these emotional responses to the pain of living. However, are they a healthy thing ultimately? I question that. Isn’t acceptance a better road to peace, then praying for justice? Isn’t action a better road to change, then praying for help?

 

But the real point is, other beliefs that are not Christian likewise offer a “reason” for pain in the world to appease that sense of struggle. Christianity is not unique in these offerings of “comfort”.

 

CC's response:

I don't think it matters, really, if these appeasements are based on fact or fiction, as long as they do not hurt others. We all seek appeasement by various means: smoking, drugs, drink, television, sex, making money, building a bigger home, shopping, etc. None of these is "real," either. They all pass away. (And, of course, some of them hurt ourselves and hurt others.) If all we are is a blip on the radar screen, a vapor that appears for a short time then vanishes away (to quote St. James), why would it be important to spend one's entire life searching for the exact and perfect truth? That would be wasteful. It doesn't really matter.

 

You are right that other beliefs can offer much (all?) that Christianity offers. It's all in the mind -- right now. And we can make anything work. But for some, it is Christian philosophy that provides the sustenence that is sought. It is the meal that satisfies the hunger. And in my view it is Christ who is the bread of life.

 

 

Antlerman wrote:

I’m going to have to disagree with you here. It is true that a non-theistic philosophy generally doesn’t deal with the pain of living by offering hopes of some awaited paradise, but in my experience they offer a healthier way of dealing with these same issues by facing what is, rather than creating a hope in something outside the realm of the natural world. Hope is good indeed. But hope in ET? Hope in Zeus? Hope in Jesus? You see what I mean?

 

CC's response:

As long as no one is being hurt, what does it matter if we make use of Zeus or Jesus or ET or Prozac to find the hope and get through a rough patch? I do see what you mean, and I am a realist in so many ways, and if I absolutely did not believe in a "God" I'd not care to spend my time getting to know that "God." But if one really, really believes, is really, really fully persuaded, what option does one have? Likewise, with those who are fully persuaded that this life and this world are it. They can't do otherwise -- if they are to live a life of integrity. I do think it is a good and healthy predisposition, however, to remain open to the many what if's of life.

 

 

Antlerman wrote:

I see what you mean on one hand, but I don’t know that I can agree that nothing is lost by believing it. I expended a great deal of energy in the hopes of faith, only to be left having to face the world anyway. I found that finding the strength in myself was far more beneficial than praying. Like I said earlier, isn’t acceptance a better road to peace, then praying for justice? Isn’t action a better road to change, then praying for help?

 

CC's response:

The road to peace and justice is paved by the good deeds of good men and women of all hues, creeds, and philosophies. To pray for the kingdom to come does not exclude working for it in the here and now. (Martin Luther King proved this.) We all waste time. Oh, to get back the thousands of hours I watched "Gilligan's Island" over and over and over. Part of the experience of being human is looking back at who we were a decade ago and hating our hairstyles, clothing, and ideas of those "dark ages" when we were so stupid!

 

 

Antlerman wrote:

Even so, the bottom line is that these sorts of approaches to dealing with life are not unique. If Christianity is the ultimate truth that all mankind must come to, it honestly is not presenting itself as the universally helpful belief system. If it was in fact from the one and only true God, then all would benefit from it. It didn’t work for me, it didn’t work for everyone here. Is it us? Or is it as you said earlier, it’s what works for the individual? If so, then it’s an option, not The Truth.

 

CC's response:

There is nothing new under the sun. There are as many approaches to dealing with life as there are human inhabitants on this tiny space ship. Likely they all work -- for someone. This does not exclude from existence a capital-T Truth. Such a Truth does exist, in my view. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. So what. But my plan is to live as though there is a Loving Energy in the universe with whom I can be in relationship and that when this type of existence (human) is over I will be with that Energy and with the Christ forever.

 

-CC in MA