And I Thought Christians Were Bad...

[Rhia]

I've been pondering this for a couple of weeks, since the first week in January. It's been really bothering me, and I no longer understand how to handle it. Here it is, without much more blathering:

 

Both my father and my oldest brother are dead, and have been for several years. Like anyone else I miss them greatly. Sam an atheist, and therefore do not try to search for them among the so-called supernatural.

 

The first week of January was spent with my birth mother. (My testimony explains that.) Several times that I would be with her, with and without my younger siblings, she would make these kind of comments:

 

"Ya know, (insert brother's name) *****'s here right now." Pause " He says 'hello'!"

 

Or:

 

"Ooh! your dad's on my mind! He must be hanging around."

 

Or even worse:

 

"Oh my God! Come here! I see your brother! He just opened the cabinet." I would come in to find the the faulty latch on the cabinet door had come undone again.

 

Typically, I keep my month shut, thinking that if it helps her to sleep at night to believe she sees dead people that I'll just leave her alone. I finally told her this:

 

I'm an atheist, as you fully know. You know I love both of them, but they're dead. They're gone. I would love to have these powers you claim to have, where you claim you can communicate with them, but I know that it's not true. At the end of the day, they're still dead, no matter how much I don't want it to be true, or no matter how much you cry and moan that they're still there and talking with you. I can't take you talking about them like this and disrespecting the fact that they're dead any longer. They're dead, but I'm not- and everytime you tell me my dead brother is sitting in the backseat of my car waving to me, and I can't see it; it just solidfies for me more that you're insane, and opens the wounds of my loss further. Please stop.

 

Her response was: "well, that's just a matter of your disbelief. I see them, you can't. That's life. Get over it and stop feeding me your crap."

 

My mother claims to be a mix of all these different things. Everything from former mormon, to buddhist, to wicca, to weird new age. As a kid, she was a pagan. Like the cool, hardcore, not like the stuff she is now, where she believes that "anything goes". Now she's insane.

 

I love my mother, but I can't handle her saying these things; which makes me feel like she's ripped open my trying-to-heal scars of former pain and pouring salt into them. She wont stop. Now she has my three younger siblings all claiming that they can see our brother walking through the house, talking to htem.

 

I can't stand it, she just can't seem to get over that they're dead and gone.

 

Help!?

 

 

[truth]

Um, well I am not sure what to say... That has got to be very difficult when you are trying to move on, and you have your mom and your siblings saying that they see and talk to your brother who is no longer with you.. who you love and miss.I am sorry... hugs...

 

I don't know what else you could do.. I do know that when people get such an idea in their head they really aren't open to reason and logic. Maybe you could try talking some reason into your siblings? I don't know though.. don't want to make things more difficult for you and your family however. My famiy has no idea of my agnosticism.. but they don't go around saying they see dead people..

 

Do you live in the same house as your mom.. if you do I would suggest moving out.. or if you don't could you maybe try to limit the actual visits at her house.. maybe do outings or have her over to your place? If your mom is anything like mine.. it is like pulling teeth trying to get her to come viist me at my place..always wants to go to her house..

 

Take care... am sure someone will have some wiser advice for you.

[Rhia]

I don't live with her, fortunately. I was adopted out of her house at 14 and when I'm not at school live 300 miles away with my adoptive mother. I do feel that I should visit my bio family once in awhile, which is how these conversations usually come about.

 

She doesn't have any inhibitions about calling me on the phone and telling me she's seeing her murdered best friend standing in front of her in a pool of blood, or that she just "sent" my dead brother's spirit to "my end" of the phone.

 

Frankly, it makes me sick.

[pandora]

*hugs* I lost my father at a young age too... but I don't have siblings.

 

Since she knows you can't see them, why does she feel a need to mention it? I think you made yourself perfectly clear. Next time, ignore her completely... don't give her the satisfaction of an argument or discussion of the topic.

 

My mother-in-law claims to see dead people, too. She doesn't shove it in our faces like your mom, but she does mention it once in a while. We just nod and smile. She knows we think she's nuts.

[Lycorth]

Ugh - I wish I could offer some kindly words that will help, but I'm afraid I'm dry. All I can say is that stories like that really are a big sign for all people to take a second look at precisely what they believe and why, because that stuff can affect us in ways we aren't aware.

 

It must suck, when you're trying to move on and stuff like this happens

[Amethyst]

Could you assign another ring to it so you know it's her and could choose to not answer the call if you didn't want to? Just a thought.

[truth]

Do you want to visit your bio family? Or do you feel obligated to? I personally go back and forth between the two.

 

I can certainly understand the love and bond that you have with your family, I am just wondering if they are causing you more harm than good? Maybe just limit the visits and phone calls a bit more.

 

What does you adoptive mother say about this issue?

[Vigile]

I wonder if being an atheist as opposed to someone who believes the dead are all around them contributes more easily toward closure.

 

When I was just a kid I had a girlfriend who I was totally infatuated with who would break up with me, but then kept coming back to me in an on again, off again fashion. I didn't have the strength at the time to make a clean cut and she would use me whenever she felt inclined. This put me through the ringer for a couple of years. Over that time she kept hope alive for me that someday we would work things out and be together on a more permenant basis. It was hugely painful and I couldn't get closure.

 

It seems to me that your mother must deal with the death of your brother and father in the same way. Since they are always around for her, she is continually reminded of her pain for their loss. As an atheist, you miss them, but you can grieve and then pick yourself up after a while and move on. Sure you remember them but you are not constantly haunted by them.

 

I don't know if my analogy works here, but it seems right to me.

[narcissist]

Different people deal with the death of loved ones in different ways. The deaths of loved ones is such a hairy issue especially in a society such as our western one, where death is seen as, kind of, not natural (?) and to be avoided at all costs, despite it's inevitability for all.

 

I hope I'm making sense here. I'm no expert in this.

 

The only thing I could think of is perhaps, "disconnecting" mentally/emotionally/whatever when she calls, like when "normal" mothers call to talk about normal stuff as only mothers (or perhaps girlfriends) do: "mmm hmmm?... yeah... oh, I know... aa haa?.... yeah... " etc.

[Rhia]

It used to be that I would genuinely wish to see my bio family. This past visit killed it, with everything culmulating into a huge explosion between my mother and myself. Mixes of the aforementioned topic, my mother being a hypochondriac, and discovering that my sister is such a (dare I say) whore that she's being tested to see if she'll die the same way my father and brother did- i.e. AIDS.

 

Anytime that we've spoken since, (online) it's been nothing but going around in circles.

 

I don't wish to cut ties completely, I have a very young sister who hates that I'm not around a lot. I feel so guity most of the time. I'm not around a lot.

 

My adoptive mother's response was: "well, you know very well that part of the reason you were removed was that it was suspected that your mother had many issues, including but not limited to Munchausen's". (A mental illness that comes about in either the said person self-medicating, or the person's children being constantly taken to the hospital for the weirdest reasons.)

 

 

I feel like I'm going crazy. I'm nothing like the rest of my family, but nonetheless, I love them. Yet as the days pass since the fight, it feels like my love is turning to a shitload of resentment. I don't want to resent my family, but I can't stand hearing all her crap anymore.

 

Should I just cut all ties?

 

Thank you to everyone who has responded.

[Checkmate]

Yes, you should cut ties with the nutty ones, but make covert arrangements to see your younger sister, whom you love. I feel she's going to need you as an anchor or life line. Don't abandon her.

 

Good luck, Rhia.

[-Demona-]

I agree with Checkmate on this: Don't abandon your kid sis. She'll need you.

 

Other than that, do what you need to do to feel sane yourself. If you're the kind of person who can tune people out easily, just tune out your mother when she starts blathering about seeing dead people. Cut down the level of communication with your mother. Do what you must, but make it so your sister (and only your sister) can reach you when she needs somebody to talk to.

[pitchu]

You could try to treat it lightly for your own peace of mind. Let honest laughter come from you, because it's fundamentally ridiculous. Every single time. Just laugh, lovingly, and say something like, "Oh, Mom, you're such a cut-up!" Then let it go. Change the subject.

 

If your younger sister witnesses your healthy disregard for and dismissal of this craziness, it'll be good modelling for her.

 

It must be an awfully painful family situation for you. Best of luck.

[truth]

You have to do what you feel is right, It sounds like you have tried to put up with them for along time..

Your kid sister does mostlikely really need you. If you cut ties with the family do you think she will see you? Or is she totally controlled by the rest of the family. Just some thoughts.. not to try to make you feel guilty. It sounds like she cares about you enought that she would still see you.

 

I have a younger sister who lives at home with my mother still who is very much controlled and thinks what my mom thinks...so it distancing myself from my mom.. I have also not had a sisterly relationshiip with my sister... but there are other issues going on there as well. And my sister doesn't really like to socaialize much.

 

Hugs..

[AtheistMommy]

Her response was: "well, that's just a matter of your disbelief. I see them, you can't. That's life. Get over it and stop feeding me your crap."

 

That's a outright plain projection. Who's feeding who what crap? Yeah, exactly.

Maybe you should take a different approach and say something more like... Remember when (dad/bro) did this? Those were the days, weren't they?.... Change the subject, take away her power over you by not giving her what she wants, to make you angry. She wants you to feel worse then she does.

 

The fact of the matter is she's trying to convince herself in life after death. The best way to do this? Convince the proclaimed non-believer.

 

Or maybe try and get her to talk about her true feelings. She's obviously hiding them.

 

My grandfather use to tell me about the dreams he'd have about my grandmother getting mad at him for giving away her things. Yeah, it's pretty human to have dreams like that. However, it's pretty human to not want to let go also. She's taking her anger out on you because she can. Just think about it.

 

Your sister needs the diversity between you and your mom inorder to make up her own mind. She might feel a little torn right now but you're educating her by simply disagreeing with the majority (even if the majority is family). Its up to you if you want to give that up, but if I were you, I'd fight back.

 

I'm just that way though. I think if my mom was doing this to me I'd be more incline to say something like, "Really? You see dead people? Are you seeing Elvis? I think maybe we should take you to see a doctor. We wouldn't want demons to invade your third eye" Or something like, "Do the voices in your head pay rent? If not, you should start charging." "Mom, they have pills for that. Maybe we should get you some."

 

Respect is a two way street.

[Rhia]

Thanks everyone. I'm currently 600 miles away from my mom & sister at college, so there's not much I can do for my sister at the moment. Although with everything else that's going on, I think part of the problem may be that my sister prefers myself to my mother, even when it came down to asking if she could live with me instead (although it would be hard to keep a 9 year old entertained in a dorm room).

 

I wish that my mother was projecting on me, 'cause then it would give me the small glimmer of hope that maybe she's doubting what she believes; but between what she says about seeing the dead everywhere (she wont let us drive her past graveyards, but she lives next-door to a funeral home, go figure), and the fact that she claims that I'm an "Indigo Child" (whatever the fuck that is, something to do with an aura...) and that I supposedly bond with my kid sister well because she's a "Crystal Child", etc- I'm just starting to think that she's crazy and there's not much that can be done.

 

She insists that she's the most-sane of anyone else around her, including myself. She considers, much like anyone who is religious in any way, that lack of belief is insane. In fact she thinks my lack of belief is a sign of autism. (To which anyone that knows me throws their heads back and laughs- I'm as far from autistic/asperger's as one can get.)

 

I've been leaving her alone for the past few days, trying to clear my head (which I desperately need). Maybe someday we'll see eye to eye on something; which would be a rare occasion, considering that even when I was a very young child, we constantly faught and never agreed on anything.

 

Again, thank you all so much. I go to a christian college (only a semester and a half to go! woo-hoo!) where everytime I ask someone, even though they know I'm an atheist, they're response is "I'll pray for you". It's awesome to get some rational answers for once.

[Open_Minded]

make covert arrangements to see your younger sister, whom you love. I feel she's going to need you as an anchor or life line. Don't abandon her.

 

Good luck, Rhia.

Checkmate is right - don't abandon your little sister.

 

Rhia - sit down with a pen and paper. Right the concrete reasons you should stay in contact with your birth family and the concrete reasons you should end ties.

 

Then ask yourself what you - personally - have control over. Act on the things you can act on. If you can make arrangements to see your younger siblings in a healthy manner - then do the work of staying in contact with them. If the only way you can stay in contact with them is with your birth mother present - are their things you can do to limit your vulnerability? This is where you really have to analyze the situation and isolate how you can manage the situation until your siblings are on their own and you can maintain relationships with them independent of your birth mother.

 

Do you think your adoptive Mom would be willing to help you problem-solve the situation and come up with some healthy ways to deal with the situation until your siblings are old enough to see without birth mom around?

 

Give yourself credit, too, Rhia. You recognize the problem and you're looking for solutions. Many, many people would not want to face the problem head on and it would just grow to immense proportions and follow you for years to come. You're to be commended for the willingness to face this problem and find solutions.

 

______________________________

 

OOPS!!! I was writing my post as you were posting your last response.

 

My eldest lives 6 hours from home. She stays in contact with her 16 year-old sister via phone and Instant messaging. It's not the same as being there. But - if your kid sister has access to a computer - set up an IM with her. It's amazing what my two daughters discuss over IM. 90% of the time I'm not even aware of it - I just hear them talking about after the fact.

[Mikefight]

Maybe it's just me, but I would be a smart ass. Next time she says she sees your Dad or Brother say:

 

"I see them too, and they are telling you to shut the fu#$ up and stop telling people you see them because you look like a crazy bit$%."

 

But that's just me.

[Eponymic]

Thanks everyone. I'm currently 600 miles away from my mom & sister at college, so there's not much I can do for my sister at the moment. Although with everything else that's going on, I think part of the problem may be that my sister prefers myself to my mother, even when it came down to asking if she could live with me instead (although it would be hard to keep a 9 year old entertained in a dorm room).

 

I think your main goal should be getting yourself into a stable situation as soon as possible so you can possibly get your sister out of there. Or, if you don't think you'll be in a situation anytime soon where you'll be able to pull your sister away from your birth mother, then seek some help to get her into a situation where she's away from your mom. Is your adopted parents perhaps willing to help take her on for a while?

 

The fact is, your mom is without a doubt, ill. Call it insane, or just so screwed up by various mental deficiencies that she's no longer acting rational, or whatever. Your sister needs to get out of there to a stable environment. As there is nothing you can do for your mother short of committing her (if that becomes necessary), then you must focus on doing the best thing for your younger siblings. And that means getting them out of there as soon as possible.

 

They say blood is thicker than water, but the truth is that love is thicker than both. And when a blood tie is screwing things up, you have no obligations to them, you have obligations to the ones you love and that need your help.

 

Do whatever you can to help your sister.

 

She insists that she's the most-sane of anyone else around her, including myself. She considers, much like anyone who is religious in any way, that lack of belief is insane. In fact she thinks my lack of belief is a sign of autism. (To which anyone that knows me throws their heads back and laughs- I'm as far from autistic/asperger's as one can get.)

An insane person will never claim that they are insane. In their mind, what they're doing is perfectly rational. What they lack is the rational ability to ask themselves if they're sane or not- and agree with the answer if it's not.

 

Again, thank you all so much. I go to a christian college (only a semester and a half to go! woo-hoo!) where everytime I ask someone, even though they know I'm an atheist, they're response is "I'll pray for you". It's awesome to get some rational answers for once.

 

Oy! Talk about fun! Gack. Stuck in a Christian college no less. Wow. Do you have a special little non-believers club that meets in a dark cave up on Atheist Hill late on Saturday nights?

[Kurari]

My mother doesn't talk to dead people, but she's pretty insane as well, and more centered on herself more than anything. My brother doesn't really care for me to be in his life and while he is polite to me, he makes no effort to talk to me beyond what's necessary. My dad and I talk once in a while, but it's pretty pointless...we'll never get past the "chit chat" and ever connect.

 

It's been the hardest thing in the world for me to live with the fact my family is gone. I understand what you are going through. Trying to have a relationship with people you consider family and want desperately to have in your life, but they just don't care enough to give you the respect and honor a true family member gives to the ones they love. It hurts like nothing else in the world to be disregarded through no fault of your own by the people you love most.

 

And I often hear, "Pfft. Just cut ties and don't ever speak to them again." As if it were so easy. Sometimes we can't really just "cut ties" with people, for whatever reason. You've got a little sister that you want contact with, which means you're going to be in contact with your mom.

 

The best advice I can give you is to keep reminding yourself that your mom's actions belong to her. Not you. She sounds terribly self-centered, and you've gone above and beyond to stretch out to her. Practice leaving her actions with her, and not taking them with you. And ignore the dead people talk. She's nuts. Narcissist and Open Minded gave very good advice. It's a tough thing to practice trying to keep yourself centered and dissassociated, but it'll be best for YOUR mental health in the long run.

 

Also remember to keep talking to people outside the situation. With stuff like this, we tend to be so close to the situation, we go blind and can't seperate what's normal sometimes. You're not crazy. It really IS the people around you. And you are doing the best you can. Just hearing someone else tell you that does wonders to get your head clear. YOU are fine. YOU are doing a wonderful job with all of this. More than they probably deserve, but it's a sign of compassion and the fact you are a very good person.

 

Take care. Take it one day at a time.

 

I'm sorry for your loss.

[Rhia]

Thanks everyone.

 

My brother's (deceased) birthday was on the 2nd. I didn't call my mom at all. I just couldn't do it. Partly because I didn't want to hear her, and partly because I couldn't remember exactly how old he would have been, and it would have pissed her off. (29? 30? I have no clue)

[chefranden]

If your mother really is insane then maybe she does see them. Back in the day when I experimented with LSD, I saw some weird stuff out their that I knew (while I was stoned) was real. Under certain conditions the mind can't tell the difference between seeing what's out there and seeing what is just in the brain. Something like seeing a cupboard door open because of a faulty latch, might be all that is needed to add in your brother to the picture.

 

My grandfather towards the end thought he was an owner of a Gold Mine and that he owned the nursing home he lived in. He was always buying me a new Caddy. Some times I'd take him out to pizza and I'd have to drive him in my real beater. "Where's that nice Caddy I bought you?" "Oh its in the shop and this is all they had for a loner." I thought it was fun, but it drove my mom nuts. Finally she told him that he had spent every last nugget, and he quit buying us stuff. My be you could tell your mom that your brother told you he was going to visit the Pharaohs in Orion and won't be back until 2050 give or take.