Llwellyn Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 I am an attorney and am speaking with recruitors in the military about becoming an officer. Specifically, I would become a Judge Advocate Officer (JAG), since I am a lawyer and would be interested in practicing law in the military. The Navy seems pretty eager to have me. Are there any former military officers out there? Is this a good idea? Is the military too heavily infected with Christian theism? Can I be a liberal and a pagan in the armed services? Any comments, whatsoever would be appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGJ@ReligionisBullshit Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 I really wish I could help. I was in the Air Force, enlisted, and during the Cold War so my knowledge is more historical than it is current. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 I have ten years experience with the US Navy. The ONLY officer I met that was worth a dam was a mustang captain. (A mustang is an officer that started out as an enlisted.) The rest I had no use for. Just keep in mind that JAG is not there to protect the rights of the enlisted. If an officer does something wrong, they'll hang an enlisted for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eponymic Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 I can't help. I can't stand the military. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anakin Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Is the military too heavily infected with Christian theism? Can I be a liberal and a pagan in the armed services? Any comments, whatsoever would be appreciated! I'm not sure about the officers, but from what I remember the enlisted people generally didn't care one way or another what religion or political leanings a person had. Granted it seemed like the majority claimed christianity, but it never seemed like much of an issue. It's kind of like a regular work environment. There will be a few people who will feel put off by a person's claim to be pagan. Fuck them. You don't have to be their buddies. You just have to do your job. Of course things may be different now. I'm thinking of pre 9/11 days. As an officer, I believe your stance may have more of an impact on your career. Only because of the politics involved in advancement. I'm guessing though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGJ@ReligionisBullshit Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 I watched a documentary on some troops in Iraq. Everyday they prayed, in fact, about a quarter of the program was devoted to listening to them pray. When I was in the military, and I have said this before in another post, we were often given the quite order to believe in God. We were given the scowl of disapproval and pressured to give to Christian charities, we either had to do cleaning tasks on Sunday or go to church, and if anyone found out your beliefs were different it usually ended up with being singled out for some form of silent oppression. But, that was the Cold War era and things may be different today. But I would suspect that you can expect the same "Sunday" treatment during your time at OCS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhia Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 I don't know about what goes on now, but in 1984, my mother was dating a woman fresh out of the Navy. She had been married, and involved with some pretty heavy shit (stuff she either couldn't remember or wouldn't remember), she was married, she was a high-ranking female officer (I wish I could remember her rank, but I remember her uniform was COVERED in pins), all that other stuff that goes along with it. She was stationed at the Sinai Peninsula when her own husband turned her in for having "gay tendencies" (this was before she completely came out). According to my mother, and the documents my mother's friend was given upon her dishonourable discharge, they discovered she was at the time bi, and an atheist, so they "deprogrammed" her. From what she used to mutter in her sleep (she was a second mother to me, so it was very often that I as a child would run to her in the middle of the night) I'm pretty sure they beat it out of her. So yeah. Don't know if it's still the same, I hope not. Scary thing is, she wanted me to go into the Navy when I turned 18. She would probably hunt me down and throttle me if she found out I was about as anti-military as they come. (Unless it's looking like LOTR, and yes, I'm a geek.) I hope this helps somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anakin Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 , we either had to do cleaning tasks on Sunday or go to church, I'm glad you said that. I had forgotten about shit like this. It was amazing how many soldiers suddenly cared about their faith. I didn't go to church services. I felt is was hypocritical. I never had that other stuff happen to me (like pressured into giving to christian charities). I was post Desert Storm, pre 9/11 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WonderWoman Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Llewellyn, although I am not personally (nor have I ever) been active duty, I am a lifetime Navy dependent. My father was career enlisted and my husband is an active duty Naval officer. As far as religion goes, from what I've observed, the Navy seems to be pretty ok with someone being either a "mainstream" (i.e. Christian or Jewish) religion or non-religious. Something like a Muslim or Hindu seem to have a more difficult time. The thing about the military in general is that they are not big on people being eccentric or individualist, or anything that might label you "weird." My personal observation, in the post 9/11 military, is that the military is uber-conservative, politically. My husband or his friends will barely even entertain a critical conversation about the current administration. So depending on where you fall politically, that may be a more difficult situation than your religious belief or non-belief. Anyway, these are just my own ramblings on the topic, take them or leave them. I would highly recommed that you talk to another JAG (current or former) about their experiences and take everything that the recruiter is telling you with a heaping tablespoon of skeptical salt. My husband is a doctor, and his years in the military don't add up to much in the civilian realm, which is why he is now staying in the military to complete his residency so at least he will have something to show for it. I don't know about the JAG program, but you may want to think about how well it transfers back to the civilian world unless you want to be a lifer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 You will not be able to be openly pagan without suffering career damage, and probable harassment. If you actually care about justice, the service will drive you nuts. However, it is a steady paycheck with actual retirement, and as a JAG you won't have to do much actual war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YDOAPS Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 I am an attorney and am speaking with recruitors in the military about becoming an officer. Specifically, I would become a Judge Advocate Officer (JAG), since I am a lawyer and would be interested in practicing law in the military. The Navy seems pretty eager to have me. Are there any former military officers out there? Is this a good idea? Is the military too heavily infected with Christian theism? Can I be a liberal and a pagan in the armed services? Any comments, whatsoever would be appreciated! The Navy is really Pro-Christian. For instance, in boot camp, they made us go to a church service. It was only one, but we couldn't refuse. The rest were optional and there were services for Islam, Buddhism, and Wicca as well, but we all were forced to go to a Christian service. At our graduation from boot camp, we had a prayer. No one asked us if we wanted one. There was no poll, nothing. I find that borderline on infringing upon the first amendment. Oh yeah, I become a petty officer in March, and guess what. Yep, another prayer and a speech from the Christian chaplain. Hell, our command doesn't even have any non-Christian chaplains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llwellyn Posted January 28, 2007 Author Share Posted January 28, 2007 One positive thing is that lawyers tend to be a very liberal and skeptical bunch, so in an office of lawyers, I imagine there would be fewer people sucked in by the Christian chain letter. At my law school, only about 1 in 5 were conservatives. Even fewer were Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 I was in the Air Force 17 years before being medically retired. It was influenced by religion, but not oppressivly so. More than your average civilian company I should think but it's not a bad career with a fair amount of benifits. You also would get to involved a lot more cases I understand as a JAG than a junior attorney in a law firm would. At least this is what I was told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JojoBeto Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 I am an Army physician. If you join the military, it won't matter if you are Christian or not on a day-to-day basis. This is because Christianity, even if claimed, is not that important in day-to-day matters, and you will be working like anywhere else. Most people in the Army are young and looking for a good time after work. The devout Christians stand out and not really in a good way. There are Wiccans in the Army (this is actually fairly popular among younger soldiers), Jews, and a few Muslims. The most important thing will be the quality of your work, not your religion. That being said, I think it would be smart to not mention that you are an atheist or pagan if your rater (the person who writes your evaluations) is extremely religious. Religious people don't always think clearly; giving them a dumb reason to not like you would be stupid. If they drink alcohol and don't have a Bible on their desk, you are can be pretty sure they are not serious about Christianity, at least; in that case, feel free to express your opinion. The military will eventually ask you what your religion is. This is for your official records and dog tags; no one will read them except for promotion boards and the coroner. The dog tag is important, so make sure it is accurate unless you like the thought of being buried under a cross. Leaving this blank on your record is easy; the clerks don't really care whether or not this block is completed. "None" is a good answer here also; agnostics and non-practicing Christians are very common in the military. You could choose your "family religion" and put it there too. I have met lots of "Baptists" that don't follow their religion's ideals. Wiccan or pagan is a bad choice in this block; many officers, including myself, associate Wicca with enlisted soldiers who get in trouble using alcohol and drugs (for good reason perhaps; in my unit in Iraq, we had lots of drug use and social problems with our Wiccan soldiers). It's weird, but Christians don't care quite so much about religious indifference as much as they care about active opposition. Maybe they see the indifferent people as potential converts. Chaplains in the military are everywhere. I think it is a well-paid job for a rabbi/priest/pastor. Most are evangelical Christians. They know some basics about other religions, including Wicca. They function as morale officers, run the base chapels, and serve as social workers in units. If you are not deployed, you might see them at meetings regarding domestic abuse/child abuse and conscientious objectors. You will barely notice them. If you deploy, then you will see them quite often, because they are considered "special staff" just like you and the unit doctor. They can be useful in helping soldiers with social problems, which might overlap into your area of expertise. At unit functions, they sometimes pray. Feel free to ignore the prayers; they are traditional and ignored by almost everyone else too. The military is very traditional and if they have always had a prayer before a banquet, no one is going to stop that. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 Hi JojoBeto, Welcome to Ex-C. Taph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reach Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 I have ten years experience with the US Navy. The ONLY officer I met that was worth a dam was a mustang captain. (A mustang is an officer that started out as an enlisted.) I was married to a mustang, naval physician who was a declared atheist (noted on his dogtags) and he never suffered any kind of trouble for that disclosure other than having to hear a prayer here and there during formal ceremonies. I have known some fine JAG officers and like Chef said, your involvement in actual war-related activities would be minimal. We may not always approve of the many entanglements our Congress and/or the White House involve us in but unfortunately, we seem to need an active military force for our nation's security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connie Goodnow Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Here is my experience with the US Navy so far.... Been in a year, and two months. No one really cares about religion insofar as what religion you are. They DO give a crap if you do your job, how well you are doing your job and if your physically, mentally and otherwise qualified to be there. The things that are heavily frowned on are alcohol related incidents, DUI, DWI, illegal drug use (you can get kicked out for that and more often than not do) Unauthorized Absence, dereliction of duty, violation of OPSEC (Operational Security, for all you laypeople) Oh and enlisted people dating that HAWT Lt. they really really like. I promise you, as long as you do your job and do it well, the rewards will be great. If you screw up in some spectacular manner, sucks to be you. As for your religion, no one cares, and if they do care and penalize you for it, you've just got ammo to pursue an EO violation on them. Now, GO KICK SOME BUTT, and I am looking very much forward to serving with you! The Angry Seabee sends.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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