Ouch.

[sarahgrace]

My roommate just sat me down and told me that she's angry at me for my decision to leave the faith. not because of anything i've done or said TO her... but simply because she feels that i'm 'taking the easy way out' and that there was nothing 'logical or reasonable' about my decision, and she doesn't feel that i'm being true to myself.

 

I asked her why she felt my decision was illogical and unreasonable and she said it was because i left because i 'didn't feel it'. This is partially true, and i told her so, but I also told her that there were literally hundreds of other reasons for me to not believe. she spent a good hour belittling me and telling me that i just 'don't want to' believe in God... and that she was hurt because she adheres to the exclusivism of her faith. I was kinda like, "umm... well don't you think that might be YOUR problem? if YOU believe that i'm going to hell... that's your belief. if it's hurting you, change it." the funny thing is that i asked her why she chose to believe in the Christian God. her reasons were that it was because she was raised in that belief system, it made the most sense to her, and she wants to live for something. I told her that I had EXACTLY the same reasons for NOT believing in the Christian god, but she didn't really see my point.

 

Ugh. There was a lot more that was said, a lot of things that really offended me (like when she had the guts to ask me if i've read the Bible) but I just can't help but get the feeling that when she said she'd love me just the same, she was lying. I always get this vibe that she feels pity for me, and that she's somehow better than me because she has 'the truth' and i don't.

 

In short, ouch. I'm angry and my heart hurts. why can't they see that I'm the same person as I was before they knew i didn't believe in their god?

 

sorry for the dumping post. i just had to get this out.

[Ouroboros]

"Easy way out"? To break the chains of religion is definitely not an easy way. I'd say apostasy is the narrow path that few can walk. It takes courage, strength and commitment. It's far from easy. The easiest thing is to stay in religion, not to leave it.

[sarahgrace]

Thank you for that, HanSolo. That's pretty much how I feel. I asked her "do you honestly think that I would make this decision that jeopardizes my closest friendships, alienates me from my employers, and throws my spiritual life into complete disarray and uncertainty because it's easier? just because i don't WANT to believe?" and she seemed to think that made sense. I don't get it.

[Ouroboros]

Nothing makes sense in the religious mind as soon as your mind have come to its senses. You realize that people are crazy, and what's even worse when you think about that you were there too and can't really understand how you could have been that way. At least that's how I feel.

 

I've met Christians in real life and on this website and I'm totally astounded by the lack of insight and thought in some of them (not all, but some) and I can see myself 10-20 years ago. It is scary.

[Lycorth]

That sucks, Sarah. Seriously.

 

One of the most irritating things about serious Xians is that they think they have all the answers. They know exactly what's going on in the head of the ex-xian and their reasons for leaving, which are always shallow and silly.

 

They love their beliefs so much they forget to consider that not everyone thinks like they do or feels about it as they do. Hence, they can be annoying and hurtful, even when they insist they're doing just the opposite.

[Ouroboros]

Var, the Christians do have all the answers, but they're mostly wrong, but they do have answers to everything.

[sarahgrace]

Yeah... it seemed like she always had some sort of empty comeback for everything I said. I told her a big reason for my leaving was that I couldn't pray without my rational side telling me over and over again that I was talking to the ceiling and nobody was listening. It comes so easily to her, for whatever reason, but I just can't deal with the cognitive dissonance. And then she said that there is always room for cognitive dissonance in christianity, and that if one has faith then that cognitive dissonance is never going to go away. so i said, 'maybe you're just a stronger or better person than me for being able to live with it, then... but i just can't. i CAN'T believe. I could sooner get up tomorrow morning and decide that i believe that pink unicorns exist. it's all on the same level for me. none of it makes sense. i'm tired of the guilt and shame and injustice of your religion and i just can't deal with it." then she told me she was sorry i've only ever experienced ONE type of Christianity, and never bothered to try out any other churches... which is a crock of shit and she knows it full well.

 

Ugh! I'm so frustrated. I think I'll go watch some monty python... maybe get my mind off things so i can actually get to sleep.

[Ouroboros]

Monty Python, very good choice.

 

So she said there's room for cognitive dissonance in Christiantiy... that's funny.

[Dhampir]

And then she said that there is always room for cognitive dissonance in christianity, and that if one has faith then that cognitive dissonance is never going to go away.

What? Wow, that chick is a pro. The only way you can combat someone who admits to such mental castration, and considers it a good thing, is to become a pro yourself. For starters, if it's brought up again, ask if it ever occurred to her, seeing as she knows she engages in cognitive dissonance, that if her faith could stand up to scrutiny, if it were based on being derived from the absolute truth of the universe, then such cognitive dissonance wouldn't be necessary?

 

Following your other argument, ask her if her cognitive dissonance validates her faith, and if so, does it do the same for adherents of other faiths? If not, why not? I'm sure you can take it from there, because if she answers either of those questions, you will have walked her into a nice little trap.

[godlessgrrl]

I probably wouldn't even have addressed her accusations, and just reamed her out for being a presumptuous betch. I mean, did you ask her for her opinion, or did she just sit you down and decide she was going to lecture you for an hour about it, uninvited and unsolicited??

 

That's time in your life that you can't ever get back. I'd be pissed. And I'd probably rip her several new ones for being so full of shit.

 

I love her line about the cognitive dissonance. She's right: there's plenty of room in Xianity for it. In fact, without it, Xianity wouldn't survive. She's probably incapable of seeing the irony of that.

 

Anyway. Her crap is about herself, not you. You probably already know that.

[Guest Reelidgeown]

Seen it plenty of times before. I used to be this type of person, there's nothing you can do or say that will change them. Nothing sinks in. I would suggest staying away from this person as they will most likely have this conversation with you regularly, maybe every time you see them. The only person that may be able to affect her views or thoughts is sadly probably herself. As the christian faith puts a person in a very nice trap, and infects their brain with the most powerful virus ever invented.

 

I created these situations with many a people during my fundified years. If you truly care for her, you should stay in touch as she may change some day. I have a few friends that put up with my constant BS it amazes me that they are still around. I don't think I could have put up with what I did if I were in their situation.

[Amethyst]

*Sigh*

 

Some people can be total idiots when confronted by someone changing in their life. I'm sorry you had to put up with that.

[truth]

Your roomate sounds like my former roomate and friend... I moved out before I abandoned xianity.

She useto come into my room and preach at me..uh drove me nuts. I ended up finding my own place and moving out and not talking about anything important with her anymore.

 

I found that she would take everything way to personally, and thought that I was her personal project to fix and get me closer to the lawrd.. it just drove me further away.. but I stayed occasionally going to church longer than I proabally would have had I not lived with her.

 

Sorry she is being a jerk... In there eyes they do see it totally as taking the easy way out, not that it is.. it is way harder leaving the faith when your whole world and belief system is xianity.I still feel tugs to go back to it, but I rationally can't.. They see the xian walk as hard, because they are being persucuted for their belief and devotion, and giving up there own will.. they think not following that code is easier because you can just do what you want.. which isn't really true.. we still have rules and ethics.. and have to do things we don't want to do because that's life.. Right.. but they will never understand how hard it is to step outside of everything you know, and face your biggest fears without the immaginary friend there to hold your hand.

 

My friend was really sad when I first told her a bit of my lack of belief.. I really haven't gone into great detail that I even doubt the exsitance of gawd.. I do think that a spirtual realm to some degree might exsit and maybe some higher type being..but right now I am agnostic.

[Rhia]

Ugh... what a bitch! How dare she? I live with a Christian who wouldn't dream of saying that!

 

Anyway, I would tell her your feelings on how faith is a personal matter, and how one is supposed to have a "PERSONAL" relationship with god in Christianity; and how it's YOURS and not HERS. It's not her problem, and if she has one, you should kindly inform her that she can move on to some other sorry convert.

 

Needless to say, I'm quite peeved on your behalf.

[Checkmate]

.........

I love her line about the cognitive dissonance. She's right: there's plenty of room in Xianity for it. In fact, without it, Xianity wouldn't survive. She's probably incapable of seeing the irony of that.

 

Anyway. Her crap is about herself, not you. You probably already know that.

So true, Gwen.

 

Sarahgrace, see this thread, if you haven't already, Why Christians Just Don't Get It.

 

Christians are encouraged and trained to embrace cognitive dissonance as a BLESSING. The ability to rationalize and believe stupidity is God's gift to the believer. Therefore no amount of arguing will ever sway the Christian. The more holes you blast in their religion, the prouder, more determined and more assured they become that they have Great Faith, while you (poor benighted, deceived child of Satan) are simply weak and/or stubborn to "the Truth."

 

Trust me...you can't win an argument with such people. It's best not to try. You'll be wasting time and give yourself a headache.

[exbeliever]

so i said, 'maybe you're just a stronger or better person than me for being able to live with it, then... but i just can't. i CAN'T believe. I could sooner get up tomorrow morning and decide that i believe that pink unicorns exist. it's all on the same level for me. none of it makes sense. i'm tired of the guilt and shame and injustice of your religion and i just can't deal with it."

 

Great Answer

 

then she told me she was sorry i've only ever experienced ONE type of Christianity, and never bothered to try out any other churches... which is a crock of shit and she knows it full well.

 

No True Scotsman.

[Eric_PK]

My roommate just sat me down and told me that she's angry at me for my decision to leave the faith. not because of anything i've done or said TO her... but simply because she feels that i'm 'taking the easy way out' and that there was nothing 'logical or reasonable' about my decision, and she doesn't feel that i'm being true to myself.

 

I asked her why she felt my decision was illogical and unreasonable and she said it was because i left because i 'didn't feel it'. This is partially true, and i told her so, but I also told her that there were literally hundreds of other reasons for me to not believe. she spent a good hour belittling me and telling me that i just 'don't want to' believe in God... and that she was hurt because she adheres to the exclusivism of her faith. I was kinda like, "umm... well don't you think that might be YOUR problem? if YOU believe that i'm going to hell... that's your belief. if it's hurting you, change it." the funny thing is that i asked her why she chose to believe in the Christian God. her reasons were that it was because she was raised in that belief system, it made the most sense to her, and she wants to live for something. I told her that I had EXACTLY the same reasons for NOT believing in the Christian god, but she didn't really see my point.

 

Ugh. There was a lot more that was said, a lot of things that really offended me (like when she had the guts to ask me if i've read the Bible) but I just can't help but get the feeling that when she said she'd love me just the same, she was lying. I always get this vibe that she feels pity for me, and that she's somehow better than me because she has 'the truth' and i don't.

 

In short, ouch. I'm angry and my heart hurts. why can't they see that I'm the same person as I was before they knew i didn't believe in their god?

 

sorry for the dumping post. i just had to get this out.

 

Well, strangely, I think this is a sign of the respect that she has for you. You no longer have the faith that she has *and* you've spent some time thinking about it, and you have reasons behind your deconversion.

 

That's very intimidating to most christians. There you were, acting like a normal person, somebody a lot like her, and all the sudden in turns out you're an *ATHEIST*.

 

Most christians are programmed to believe that all atheists are unintelligent hedonists who only think for themselves. You are obviously not that, which means that you don't fit into their mindset.

 

There are two common responses.

 

In some people, your deconversion will spur interesting discussions about what they believe, or whether they believe.

 

In others, it leads to denial. You don't fit her worldview, so she's denying that you are an atheist. That's what she means when she says you aren't being true to yourself. And she's afraid because she's worried that you will cause her to lose her faith, and where will that leave her?

 

I hope that helps. It's really taxing dealing with this sort of response, when people claim that they know what you think more than you do.

[sarahgrace]

My many thanks to all of you for your encouraging responses. I'm still really upset... today she's talking to me like nothing happened, and when she noticed that I was being a bit short with her, she came into my room and hugged me and told me she loved me even though it didn't seem like it. Which i think is true... five years of close friendship isn't that easily tossed aside, but it was a piss-poor apology if that's what it was supposed to be. I don't think she feels that she has anything to apologize for, and I don't know if she realizes how much she hurt and offended me. I didn't know how to respond so I just said nothing.

 

But yeah, thank you all for assuring me that I haven't taken the easy way... it sure as hell feels a lot harder than religion right now!

[Poonis]

I wish I was lucky enough to come across someone who railed against my atheism or berated me for leaving the flock.

[riverbank]

My roommate just sat me down and told me that she's angry at me for my decision to leave the faith. not because of anything i've done or said TO her... but simply because she feels that i'm 'taking the easy way out' and that there was nothing 'logical or reasonable' about my decision, and she doesn't feel that i'm being true to myself.

 

I asked her why she felt my decision was illogical and unreasonable and she said it was because i left because i 'didn't feel it'. This is partially true, and i told her so, but I also told her that there were literally hundreds of other reasons for me to not believe. she spent a good hour belittling me and telling me that i just 'don't want to' believe in God... and that she was hurt because she adheres to the exclusivism of her faith. I was kinda like, "umm... well don't you think that might be YOUR problem? if YOU believe that i'm going to hell... that's your belief. if it's hurting you, change it." the funny thing is that i asked her why she chose to believe in the Christian God. her reasons were that it was because she was raised in that belief system, it made the most sense to her, and she wants to live for something. I told her that I had EXACTLY the same reasons for NOT believing in the Christian god, but she didn't really see my point.

 

Ugh. There was a lot more that was said, a lot of things that really offended me (like when she had the guts to ask me if i've read the Bible) but I just can't help but get the feeling that when she said she'd love me just the same, she was lying. I always get this vibe that she feels pity for me, and that she's somehow better than me because she has 'the truth' and i don't.

 

In short, ouch. I'm angry and my heart hurts. why can't they see that I'm the same person as I was before they knew i didn't believe in their god?

 

sorry for the dumping post. i just had to get this out.

 

fuck, who is she to tell you that you aren't being true to yourself? If my experience and others is anything to go by then quite the opposite is true.

 

I still have quite a few Christian friends but it frustrates me that they just DON'T have a clue about what I as an EX-Christian, have been through. I don't know, I wouldn't personally advise you to stop being friends with her, keep the friendship if poss, but I can understand your frustration.

 

keep your chin up.

[Eponymic]

so i said, 'maybe you're just a stronger or better person than me for being able to live with it, then... but i just can't. i CAN'T believe. I could sooner get up tomorrow morning and decide that i believe that pink unicorns exist. it's all on the same level for me. none of it makes sense. i'm tired of the guilt and shame and injustice of your religion and i just can't deal with it."

 

I hate traps like this that Christian's end up forcing us into. She's not the better or stronger person. If she was, she wouldn't be berating and belittling you for the choice you've made.

 

The hard thing is that it sounds like because, and correct me if I'm wrong, you are still so freshly removed from the fold, you don't have all of the solid arguments and statements that Christians can't fight back against. It's so damn hard to argue with someone when you know you're in the right, but just don't have all the resources right at your fingertips- so all you can do is talk in generalities more than hardcore specific points, or nail down more clarified reasoning for your decisions.

 

then she told me she was sorry i've only ever experienced ONE type of Christianity, and never bothered to try out any other churches... which is a crock of shit and she knows it full well.

 

Do you mean you have tried other branches of Christianity and she just forgetting about it, or denying it?

[sarahgrace]

Riverbank, thanks for the input. Isn't it crazy how people can just so blithely assume they know what's going on in your head? These things are so complicated... i think that is what the well-meaning xian friend fails to understand, a lot of the time.

 

Eponymic, you've hit the nail on the head. I still have a hard time putting into words why it is I don't believe anymore. If I can't even do it in my own journal, how can i be expected to argue it clearly face-to-face? It'll take some time, yet.

 

And yes, I have tried other branches of Christianity... I've tried nearly every flavour of protestantism, as well as brief ventures into catholicism and orthodoxy. These things are easily forgotten in the heat of the moment, though, i guess.

 

For everyone's info, roommate and I have written letters to each other explaining ourselves and are en route to making amends, i think. bad things happen when two people are, for a time, unwilling to understand each other. i think we both are equally guilty... i'm oversensitive to christianese and arrogant christian attitudes and automatically assumed that everything she said was coming from that arrogance... really, i should have known better. she wouldn't intend that sort of thing, even if it comes off accidentally. hopefully this will be a lesson in moderation and understanding for both of us. i still take issue with a lot of the things she actually said, though, and she knows that... we've yet to work that out.

[AtheistMommy]

WOW! Yeah, I hear ya. That's some eye opening shit. Sounds like her love is contitional to religious belief.

 

If only I had a dollar for everytime I heard someone say exactly what she told you. Man I'd be rich! It's the same argument over and over. My in-laws use to say "You're just going though a phase."

[sarahgrace]

Hahaha, yeah, I've gotten the 'phase' thing a bunch of times. Usually I just say, "yeah, maybe I am. We'll see. I'm keeping an open mind." That usually does the trick, at least for a little while.

[Eponymic]

Hahaha, yeah, I've gotten the 'phase' thing a bunch of times. Usually I just say, "yeah, maybe I am. We'll see. I'm keeping an open mind." That usually does the trick, at least for a little while.

 

 

Open mind is definitely a big help. Though even that doesn't always help you see another persons reasoning. The more you can be open to understand why a person thinks a certain way, and accept it, the easier it will be to deal with it.