The Reverend Ted Haggard

[Former Follier]

I want to know how the Apologists on the site can explain this very influential and upright man's actions away. He's supposed to be a "devout" evangelical christian. . . pastor of a mega-church in Colorado Springs. . . best friends with FOF's Dr. James Dobson. . . Fundys, you got some 'splainin' to do!

 

GO!

 

Sidenote: The name Ted Haggard doesn't ring a bell? www.wikipedia.org Look him up for your own benefit. You'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll wet yourself. . . then you'll realize how much it pisses you off.

 

Also. . . http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/4529647.html

 

Happy hunting.

[Ramen666]

I will say my take on it, I just find irony in this whole entire ordeal. This is one of the best things that has happend and a good strike towards the church because this show hypocracy at its best. I want to see what the fundys have to say about this because this has got to have them thinking.

 

The first day I read the story I never heard of good old Ted, but I read around about him and I busted out laughing.

[Lycorth]

Just another hypocrite who preaches one thing and does another.

 

In the annals of Xianity, he's only one of many

[Former Follier]

Just another hypocrite who preaches one thing and does another.

 

In the annals of Xianity, he's only one of many

One of many, true, but on a much grander scale! This is comparable to the whole Jim Bakker scandal, it's not just some random preacher from Wyoming who pastor's a church that hasn't filled it's 500 person seating maximum since the 80's. This guy's church seated almost 15,000 people per service. Quite a blow to the christian faith.

 

Every decade or so (sometimes even more frequently), a televangelist or some other prominent christian figure is humbled by his one carnality. Don't they understand that, being in the limelight, every single itch they scratch is noted, catalogued and critiqued? When will they ever learn.

 

What I find most humiliating about this situation is that he was such a strong opponent of homosexuality and gay unions! Come to find out, he's mixed up in his own torrid gay love affair.

[Former Follier]

The road to 'sanctimonious bastardom' is a long one. I suspect this holier than thou specimen realized at some point in his life that he lived on planet earth and the equations provided by his doctrine didn't quite add up.

 

A taste of the red pill proved fatal .... but his road back to blue pill land is creating another stack of lies, delusions and hipocrisy. Managing lies and hipocrisy is easier than facing the real world it seems .

I dont' know that he's even going to attempt to regain his reputation. According to all reports, he and his family (wife and three kiddies) are picking up and moving to Iowa or Kansas so he and his wife can go back to college in an attempt to earn Master's in Psychology degrees. All reports claim that the panel of preachers who "cured him of his homosexuality" encouraged him to move and pursue secular employment. Even if he chose to start a new ministry, he would have no problem finding plenty of naive, new followers.

[Mythra]

I want to know how the Apologists on the site

 

Hello FF. We don't really have too many christian apologists here. Once in awhile someone tries to fire a shot and then run away.

 

But, they don't really hang out here in the pit of vipers.

 

But as far as Haggard goes - I can give you an answer from my formerly fundy-stained brain:

 

Many evangelical leaders who are making an impact for Christ are up against a tremendous enemy. Swaggart, Bakker, Haggard, and others have succumbed to the wiles of Satan. The more a person is tearing down the devil's strongholds, the more the devil attacks him. That's the nature of the big spiritual war that takes place here on earth. Haggard, being the tremendous warrior that he is, was obviously under attack. Who can judge him? Who knows how many demons surround him on a daily basis. Haunt him in his dreams. I would imagine that the demons were even able to increase Haggard's sexual urges by boosting his hormone production. Haggard deserves a medal as a fallen soldier for Christ.

 

Now, the real answer: Haggard is a human being. Following a religion that doesn't allow that.

[Lycorth]

One of many, true, but on a much grander scale! This is comparable to the whole Jim Bakker scandal, it's not just some random preacher from Wyoming who pastor's a church that hasn't filled it's 500 person seating maximum since the 80's. This guy's church seated almost 15,000 people per service. Quite a blow to the christian faith.

 

Very true, and I'm rather thankful for people like him.

 

The Ted Haggards of the world help to cast a poor reflection on a disgusting cult, and can only help to weaken it. For that, I am glad

[Mongo]

Here is something to consider...

 

Gaydom is absolutely not going away. +

 

The general population is growing more tolerant and accepting of gayness. +

 

The general population is crossing over toward shunning those who are prejudiced against gays. +

 

Churches eventually morph and adapt (e.g. dancing and divorce were once forbidden) =

 

Therefore, there will eventually be gay evangelical fundamentalist churches.

 

**************

Which brings me back to Haggard and my afore mentioned belief that he can rise again to reinvent his ministry. http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?act=...&pid=230025

 

Haggard will languish in the church structure for a while until:

1 ) He has proven he will not again embarass the church (~ 10 yrs?)

2 ) He has either cultivated

a ) a gay reform ministry to cure gays or

b ) started a church that is open and accepting of gays (that is where the timing may be off)

 

I've said it before guys... xtians like the show and the performer. That person's morals is secondary.

 

If that were not true, then Benny Hinn (dubious spending practises) would not be on TV.

 

Its the quality of the performance that matters folks! Little else.

 

Haggard will rise again!

 

Mongo

[Rachelness]

How can a man stand at the pulpit week after week, year after year, preaching against homosexuality and adultery and then sneak off and f*** a male prostitute? I find it quite remarkable really.

 

The irony of course being that he was judged by the standards he's been perpetuating. I mean.. homosexuality, sleeping around, drug use.. not exactly earth shattering. It's not so much WHAT he did as the contempt he laid on others for doing the same.

[Trancelation]

Corruption is rampant throughout Christian leadership and followers. One could easily point out that the whole institiution is crooked, and men like Haggard are just a common example of how and why Christianity is broken, and always has been broken. I have no respect for Christians that claim they are praying for Haggard - the whole concept smacks of the idea that Haggard himself is not to blame for his own acitivities. Haggard is just another crooked salesman with an itch to scratch, in this case an itch for gay prsotitiutes and happy powder. Just more evidence that becoming a Christian does not turn a person into a living replica of a saint, despite the claims of the Bible.

[Lightbearer]

Self-hatred.

 

Honestly, he must be really ashamed of himself and his actions that he must of projected it unto everyone else through his preaching. It's not that he had a problem with gays, he just didn't want to admit to being gay probally so he preached against it so much.

 

He goes so far as to support violating peoples rights to satisfy his hatred.

[Taphophilia]

When I heard Haggard say that he's not gay, what I thought was that no man has sex with another man unless he's sexually attracted to men in the first place. He could be Bi if he's not gay and he is attracted sexually to men and no amount of "counseling" is going to change that.

[Poonis]

I'm sure Ted was just misunderstood.

[Lightbearer]

When I heard Haggard say that he's not gay, what I thought was that no man has sex with another man unless he's sexually attracted to men in the first place. He could be Bi if he's not gay and he is attracted sexually to men and no amount of "counseling" is going to change that.

 

Last I heard he admitted to it and was having problems with it for years. I think it's kind of sad how quickly the Christian community severed ties with him. One minute he was such a great leader and the next he was no one of significance. I would feel sorry for him, had he not had it coming.

[Godless Wonder]

At first, the first day or so of the scandal, I admit I enjoyed the schadenfreude. That this man -- so vocal and adamant in his views, visilble in a film containing himself and Richard Dawkins no less, in which he condemns homosexuality, citing the authority of the Bible, etc. etc. -- should himself be found out to be secretly going around having homosexual trysts, well, this hypocrisy and this marvelous comeuppance and poetic justice was too sweet a candy to resist enjoying at first.

 

But, I have come to pity the man, despite his faults. Christianity is a spell not so easy to escape, as many here can attest. This man has steeped and fermented in Christianity for his whole life, and attempted to drown his own personality and true self because of it, and in this attempted drowning, has been driven to spread the thing which he has been led to believe. He has failed to escape from Christianity, despite the fact that it causes him to attempt to destroy and despise who he really is. Is that such a failing that deserves condemnation, or does it deserve pity? Perhaps a bit of both?

 

I see a man who's life has been made miserable, (though he'd deny it, if you asked him) and who has probably caused some misery in the lives of others, all because of Christianity, and I see a man who has failed to manage to escape from this cult. How many here have only just barely managed to escape?

 

Well, perhaps I'm a bleeding heart liberal, but I pity the guy.

[Casey]

Well, if Himself ever takes up preaching again, perhaps his congregation will give him a stave or two of this:

 

I've never fucked a poofter,

But I've fucked a man that HAS

 

Casey

[crazy-tiger]

How can a man stand at the pulpit week after week, year after year, preaching against homosexuality and adultery and then sneak off and f*** a male prostitute? I find it quite remarkable really.

But he didn't, did he?

 

No, he used to sneak off and get fucked by a male prostitute... obviously, you're only a homosexual if you're doing the fucking.

The irony of course being that he was judged by the standards he's been perpetuating. I mean.. homosexuality, sleeping around, drug use.. not exactly earth shattering. It's not so much WHAT he did as the contempt he laid on others for doing the same.

Meh... did we really expect anything else?

[LosingMyReligion]

Ted Haggard reminds me of Strom Thurmond. The object of his scorn is secretly the object of his wildest desires. Thurmond helped institute anti-black laws and policies, yet he was screwing his black maid(and went on to have a half black daughter AND several black grand children). People like Ted Haggard disgust me. He wants all of the benefits of being apart of the privilege majority(evangelicals), BUT, he wants to have his male lovers on the side. Trust me, he has not been "cured" of his sexual orientation. That is only code for, "I'm going to be more discreet and force my lover to sign a silence contract" or something. People like Haggard are more of a threat to the GLBT community than the virulent homophobe.

But, I can sorta relate to him. I tried "curing" my same gender loving feelings with prayer and a psych major(every gay person tries to major in psych to see if he or she can "fix" themselves, Haggard is no different). Well, it did not work. Men are too yummy. Haggard should just take his millions, go to SanFran, and be merry and gay(pun intended).

[Lightbearer]

There is an article in the News and Current Events section saying Ted said he was "fully gay."

 

 

At first, the first day or so of the scandal, I admit I enjoyed the schadenfreude. That this man -- so vocal and adamant in his views, visilble in a film containing himself and Richard Dawkins no less, in which he condemns homosexuality, citing the authority of the Bible, etc. etc. -- should himself be found out to be secretly going around having homosexual trysts, well, this hypocrisy and this marvelous comeuppance and poetic justice was too sweet a candy to resist enjoying at first.

 

But, I have come to pity the man, despite his faults. Christianity is a spell not so easy to escape, as many here can attest. This man has steeped and fermented in Christianity for his whole life, and attempted to drown his own personality and true self because of it, and in this attempted drowning, has been driven to spread the thing which he has been led to believe. He has failed to escape from Christianity, despite the fact that it causes him to attempt to destroy and despise who he really is. Is that such a failing that deserves condemnation, or does it deserve pity? Perhaps a bit of both?

 

I see a man who's life has been made miserable, (though he'd deny it, if you asked him) and who has probably caused some misery in the lives of others, all because of Christianity, and I see a man who has failed to manage to escape from this cult. How many here have only just barely managed to escape?

 

Well, perhaps I'm a bleeding heart liberal, but I pity the guy.

 

 

I hear you. I think he can turn this into a positive thing. But I'm still not sure if I pity him or not, he sort of had it coming by trying to lead a double life. It would be great if he just moved on and dropped Christianity all together, because he's going to have more trouble if he continues on the path he is going.

[Ouroboros]

How can a 3 week therapy do something that a lifelong Christian/Religious 120% devoted life couldn't? Either he never was a true Christian and now became one, or Jesus never helped him get rid of his "affliction" until now (very deceitful of the loving god) or maybe the simple answer is no-god and no-change.

[Lucas Foxx]

Hopefully this man will go on to become a productive citizen in some capacity. I believe he has all but ruined his odds of success in his first career. However, I can sympathize with his position and repression. I am certain that he evolved into his present character by the same influences which once held a firm grip of most of us here. I wish him the best and wish for him that he find a light to follow which leads him away from his current circumstances. I am almost certain that his experiences have made him a much less judgemental person than he once was.

[R. S. Martin]

This situation is just a bit much for me to wrap my head around. We've got a very high profile Christian leader who has what it takes to develop a megachurch from scratch. This means he's got charisma big time. People like him a LOT. People of all ages, from ten-year-olds to eighty-year-olds and beyond think he's a great guy. He's the mentor par excellence. Why, he's--well, he can't be God exactly because there is only One God--but by golly he's second to none other than Christ himself.

 

Then out of the blue comes a charge of homosexual behaviour. It comes from a man who professed to be his sexual partner. He admits that the charge is true. But it gets worse.....the Second in line to Christ has used hard-earned tithe-payer money to PAY for the sexual favours.

 

This Great Mentor who preached against homosexual behaviour all his life has violated trust on so many levels--all the way from financial to behavioural to spiritual. If the physical body is Christ's temple like Paul says, and if sexual sins are sins against the body, this man has polluted the Temple of Christ.

 

Many people must be going through a crisis of faith.

 

Mythra in fundy mode said:

 

Many evangelical leaders who are making an impact for Christ are up against a tremendous enemy. Swaggart, Bakker, Haggard, and others have succumbed to the wiles of Satan. The more a person is tearing down the devil's strongholds, the more the devil attacks him. That's the nature of the big spiritual war that takes place here on earth. Haggard, being the tremendous warrior that he is, was obviously under attack. Who can judge him? Who knows how many demons surround him on a daily basis. Haunt him in his dreams. I would imagine that the demons were even able to increase Haggard's sexual urges by boosting his hormone production. Haggard deserves a medal as a fallen soldier for Christ.

 

That kind of logic and the church's swift and conclusive action to get rid of him--out of sight, out of mind--may carry the more light-minded through. But I think the more serious thinkers will be mulling, analyzing, weighing things for a long time to come. The Bible says so clearly that more will not be required of a person than he is able to bear. That does away with the above argument. Some really deep thinkers for whom truth is more important than social status and/or prestige will see that obviously Satan was stronger than God. Some of them may wind up here.

 

As for the man himself, I don't know him. I don't much care what happens to him. What grabs my heart is the children in the situation. They have to live with it, too. Oh, I did have a thought about the Man Himself. I hope he never becomes a psychologist and counselor unless and until he figures out how to be real. Also, it seems really seriously strange that a man and his wife both have the academic background and personal interest and aptitude to do a Masters in psychology. I suspect that's just a cover story to keep the population at large happy.

 

Here's a theological question: If, as FOF et al claim, that gays contaminate those with whom they have contact then the entire megachurch is at high risk. This includes esp. the elders who worked closely with him.

 

Like I said, this thing is a bit huge for me to wrap my head around.

[Mongo]

After three weeks of going to a chrisitan sex rehab, Haggard is claiming he is "completely heterosexual". The church leaders are urging him and his wife to get secular degrees and jobs; and move out of Colorado Springs.

 

I wonder whether the church is going to fund his new career direction.

 

I mean, why would they be in a rush to declare him cured?

 

Now, if the church were " hell bent" on paying him to go away, then they would only be able to pay for he and his wife to study as long as he had "proven" that he was cured - by god of course.

 

In that context, they are "doing the right thing" by helping their brother <<insert violin music here>> move on through a very challenging time in he and his poor wife's lives. "Its the christian thing to do."

 

"Oh what a wicked web we weave, when first we practise to deceive!" Unknown

 

Mongo

[Curtdude]

My gut reaction to this dude is "what a wussy."

 

I've been down that path of self-hatred. Waiting for God/Jesus/HS to cure me of my ManLove. The Good Pastor Haggard is still on that path. Denying fully his own nature. Buying into that whole "no one can be a homo - I must have some 'broken' psyche" bull. Making life a living hell for all them homo youngin's in all those churches around the world, keeping them DOWN on themselves and DOWN on life. Maintaining the Biggest Lie On Earth that somehow, a man lovin' dude can change 100% completely into a hetero, and by maintaining this lie, keeping hope alive for 1000s of self-hating homos in those reparative therapy groups.

 

Cured of his "condition" in 3 weeks? My ass. I'd like to take him to the Dore Street Fair here in SF in July and watch his head spin w/ all the beautiful dudes struttin' their stuff.

 

For the love of freakin' God, why can't the man ACT LIKE A MAN and take some responsibility? Owe up to reality.

 

Everything that has come outta his mouth just reeks of One More Reason Why I Ain't No True Believer.

[Vixentrox]

It would be one thing if he did it ONCE just to try it. Doing once to see how it is wouldnt make one gay or bi. if you ended up not caring for it. Obviously he was a little more than just bi-curious and acting out. At the very least he's completly Bi.