I'm So Stupid, I Went Back!

[Cliff Dweller]

I'm in so much bother, I don't know what to do. Thought I'd got out of church, but then I convinced myself it was all a big mistake and went back. It gets worse: I thought the only way to get back my 'feeling' about Christianity is to get really involved again. (I do tend to be a creature of extremes.) So I volunteered along with someone else to set up some prayer groups (and I don't even pray!) But it's not working, I really can't get back my sense of belief or spirituality, however much I try. Now my name is on the publicity, and I don't want to let other people down, particularly the guy I'm supposed to be organising it with. I did say at the outset I'd commit myself with the prayer groups until Pentecost (i.e the end of May), so I guess I'll have to do it until then, even though I'll feel such a hypocrite. I'd be in so much trouble and so ashamed if I resigned now, because I'd be leaving so much stuff for other people to sort out.

 

What happened as the 'final straw' was this - at the end of Mass last week (I'm a Catholic) the priest told us to write to our Members of Parliament about the gay adoption issue. This is a current controversy in England - it's about whether Christian adoption agencies will be allowed to opt out of legislation which outlaws discrimination against gay couples who apply to adopt children. My personal instincts are liberal and that all potential adopters should be treated on their merits, regardless of their sexuality - however, I don't want to go into all those issues here. What really annoyed me was that it was assumed we all agree with the position of the Catholic Church and can be meekly ordered to stick up for it - not being treated as adults who can think for ourselves!

 

I just ask myself why I waste so much time and energy on being in a place which is so out of step with the modern world, and so unwelcoming too. Because that's another thing: going to my church - a large urban cathedral - is about as friendly as sitting on a bus. Nobody talks to each other, it's so impersonal (in contrast to the Church of England church where my husband is organist where there is at least some human warmth). I even got myself on a committee to improve our welcome, and we've tried, but it's a lost cause.

 

Now I just want to put it all behind me and get out, but I don't know how or when to do it, having got myself dug into such a hole with organising these wretched prayer groups. This is the second time I've tried to get out - the first time I managed it for a year before I went back, but this time I only lasted a few weeks. It's all such a mess, I swing back and forth, and never seem to resolve it.

[Dave]

....This is the second time I've tried to get out - the first time I managed it for a year before I went back, but this time I only lasted a few weeks. It's all such a mess, I swing back and forth, and never seem to resolve it.

Tough spot. Try very hard to find someone to replace you, then make a clean break.... again. Don't be hard on yourself. Old habits, especially ones like this, are hard to break. It seems you like the involvement with other people and helping out. Try to find a British Humanist Association meeting near you. Or try to get involved in some other group that can provide the same level of engagement.

[Amethyst]

I agree with Dave. I would also suggest volunteering or taking classes in a subject that interests you to replace the social aspects. I'm currently taking a writing class through a continuing education organization and I love it.

[Kurari]

I also agree with Dave and Amethyst. Get out of there, and go find some new things to occupy yourself. You shouldn't have to put up with being stuck there because you committed to something you dont' really believe in. It's not fair to you, or to them.

[R. S. Martin]

A comment on your title: Just because you did something stupid does not make YOU stupid.

 

I think it is always okay to confess that one made a mistake. That is what this is. And it's okay. No matter how much people dislike it, it is your personal position and conviction. No one can rob you of that. They can only try to bully you out of it. And they will! All you have to do is make sure they are unsuccessful.

 

I think good advice has been given for how to replace church. I wish I could find something. Classes last only a few months and then everyone moves on. In a settled congregation the same people are around long term.

[Eponymic]

I did say at the outset I'd commit myself with the prayer groups until Pentecost (i.e the end of May), so I guess I'll have to do it until then, even though I'll feel such a hypocrite.

 

Would you rather suffer the months of negative emotions just because you told others you'd do this?

 

If you can find a replacement, that is THE way to go.

 

Staying with it only proves that you can hold a commitment to others. But at the same time you're breaking a commitment to yourself. And are you really upholding a commitment to those others when you're half-heartedly promoting a belief system that you don't follow anymore.

 

It's hard, but you'll be much better off just getting out of it sooner than later. For everyone's benefit.

[Mythra]

I'd be in so much trouble and so ashamed if I resigned now, because I'd be leaving so much stuff for other people to sort out.

 

I think you'd be surprised. They'd manage. Guaranteed.

 

You're from England? You must know the wisdom of shakespeare:

 

This above all: to thine ownself be true,

And it must follow, as the night the day,

Thou canst not then be false to any man.

 

You are not doing anyone any favors by staying. Especially yourself. Their lives will all go along fine if you leave. And yours will too. There's a pretty long stretch of "pretend" for you between now and May if you decide to stick it out.

 

Best of luck, cliff dweller.

[Amethyst]

I think good advice has been given for how to replace church. I wish I could find something. Classes last only a few months and then everyone moves on. In a settled congregation the same people are around long term.

 

That is true. I'm also a member of a Star Trek club and have been for years. It's good to find something in your interests that you'll at least have something in common with people.

[Piprus]

What possible benefit could there be by remaining as moderator of prayer groups that you really have no commitment to? It's nothing but a falsehood, and I would suggest that in your mind it would do more harm than good. Ask yourself if you could really tolerate another three months of playing the game without falling apart at some point. Better to admit to yourself that you simply don't belong there, and move on. That's not being stupid, for you are decidedly not. It's being honest.

[Guest Ranman87]

Shit dude, I go to Church where I live all the time. The thing is though, I've figured out all their little tricks and games. Alot of the time, everytime something the pastor will say is unfactual or wrong, I'll correct him loud enough where 2 rows ahead and behind can hear me.

 

I just usually go to see some of my old friends there. There's a bunch of people who go to church who don't believe or really care about what's being said of the beliefs themselves, they just go because they've been doing it since they're a kid.

 

If it's uncomfortable for you to go, then don't go. I just enjoy going to point people out on their bullshit on their home turf.

[Cliff Dweller]

Thank you all for your words of advice. You people are kindness itself. I've got a meeting tomorrow with some of my church people and I shall explain that I have to leave, and try and get someone to take on my responsibilities with the prayer groups - wish me luck!

[R. S. Martin]

Here's wishing you all bushels of luck you need to carry you through and beyond this issue, Cliff Dweller. I hope things go well.

[dr_funkenstein]

My advice?

 

Use the prayer meeting as a platform to be brutally honest with the people there. Tell them how you really feel. Maybe you'll help pull a few more people away from the christ cult. You'll probably get shut down within 30 seconds of talking, but so what? At least you were open and honest.

[Eponymic]

Thank you all for your words of advice. You people are kindness itself. I've got a meeting tomorrow with some of my church people and I shall explain that I have to leave, and try and get someone to take on my responsibilities with the prayer groups - wish me luck!

 

May you come out with ten gold stars and a big smiley face on your meeting report card.

[Taphophilia]

I was sucked into doing something similar one time, so I know exactly how you feel. What you do is recruit others, tell others you need help and have them do it for you. As people are taking more and more of your responsiblities, slowly become less and less involved, no one will really notice you backing out because it's getting done without you.

[godlessgrrl]

It's not stupid to go back. People do it all the time, with bad jobs, relationships, religions, whatever. I did it with my ex-husband for awhile, and I'm doing it even now with a contract job that isn't the greatest. People go back to bad situations because we tend to need and want stability in our lives, and if a bad situation is what you're familiar with, then it's going to feel way more stable than changing your situation. Even if changing it means that something better will come of the change.

 

I'll admit that I've tended to rag on myself a lot for situations where I've gone back to something awful. But then, one way to look at it is that sometimes going back is a solid reminder of why you left in the first place. I may have dated my ex-husband for awhile after the divorce papers were filed, and I may feel kind of stupid about that, but it was a great reminder of why I left him in the first place - and I never went back. And I never, ever would again. Maybe your foray back to church is something like that: it might be that it was once familiar, and might feel more stable than getting out, but you're finding that it really just sucks all around, and maybe you just needed that reminder of how bad it was for you - and that's okay.

 

If you're miserable there, though, I'd strongly encourage you to do whatever you can to cut back on your involvement until you feel you can leave entirely. It might be possible for you to withdraw even from your prayer group commitments, if you approach the powers that be and give them some excuse like "I've taken on too much and need to cut back" or something like that. Or maybe you can come all the way out and tell them you're an agnostic, or an atheist, and I'm sure they'd excuse you from prayer duty then! Or perhaps you can stick with it through May, just learn to regard church as a place where you go to study modern mythology. Or bring a book or something. Whatever makes it tolerable.

 

In any case, how you handle your current position is entirely up to you. But you don't have to stay there, if it's a miserable waste of time for you. And it really isn't stupid to go back, even though it might feel stupid - sometimes people just need to do that.

 

Good luck, and keep us posted on how it goes.

[bluewizard]

There's no use in living a doubloe life that you don't believe in, social aspects can be found in very secular environments.

[Cliff Dweller]

I decided to go for the gradual approach in disengaging myself. Also I've not been entirely truthful with my church people - cowardly I know, but it's what I can cope with. So yesterday I met up for a meal with the other prayer group organiser. I told him I'm leaving after Pentecost to go back to the Church of England (I was a convert to Catholicism) - not completely untrue as I shall probably go to my husband's C of E church from time to time. Then I had to go to a meeting about prayer groups, at which I just said, you'll have to find someone to replace me as I won't be around after Pentecost. No-one asked why. So I guess I'll do my stuff for a few more weeks: I'm going to see it as self-development in groupwork skills, nothing more. Maybe I'll get the chance or the courage to get out before, we'll see.

 

The crazy thing is, I enjoyed the meeting and the business of organising stuff - however, I'd rather do that somewhere else where you don't have to take on board a load of silly beliefs as well. And the Catholics I know are good kind people - here in the UK it's not quite like escaping from extreme fundamentalism like a lot of you have done. Incidentally, I'm reading an interesting book at the moment: 'Letter to a Christian Nation - A Challenge to Faith' by Sam Harris, which is described as a New York Times bestseller. It does apply more to the American scene, but talks a lot of sense - I wonder if anyone else has read it. I'm going for Dawkins 'The God Delusion' next - got to keep my courage up!

 

I've taken on more non-church activities on weekday evenings, but Sundays might be difficult to fill. I'm thinking about doing some postgraduate study and at last getting qualified as a librarian instead of just working as a library assistant. My whole career went on hold because of all the time and priority I gave to church things, including paid work for the church for a few years. Sad in a way, but I'm not going to get into regrets, time to move forward.

 

Many thanks again for all your comments and advice - your support is a real help.

[Eric_PK]

I decided to go for the gradual approach in disengaging myself. Also I've not been entirely truthful with my church people - cowardly I know, but it's what I can cope with. So yesterday I met up for a meal with the other prayer group organiser. I told him I'm leaving after Pentecost to go back to the Church of England (I was a convert to Catholicism) - not completely untrue as I shall probably go to my husband's C of E church from time to time. Then I had to go to a meeting about prayer groups, at which I just said, you'll have to find someone to replace me as I won't be around after Pentecost. No-one asked why. So I guess I'll do my stuff for a few more weeks: I'm going to see it as self-development in groupwork skills, nothing more. Maybe I'll get the chance or the courage to get out before, we'll see.

 

I'm reminded of the title of one of Richard Feynmann's biographies (great books if you haven't read them), which is "what do you care what other people think?"

 

I don't think what you did was cowardly. It takes a lot of guts to break away from a group, but you did it.

 

What you did was pragmatic. If you had told them the truth, they would have gotten really upset, you would then have gotten defensive, and they likely would have pressed hard for you to change your mind.

 

That wouldn't have helped you, nor would it have helped them.

 

You had a rational reason for why you did what you did, and you choose not to try to explain it to a group who aren't looking at that same decision rationally.

 

You do know the joke about teaching a pig to dance, right?

 

Never try to teach a pig to dance. It won't work, and you'll only annoy the pig.

[Fretbuzz]

Because that's another thing: going to my church - a large urban cathedral - is about as friendly as sitting on a bus

 

That's hilarious! Alan Watts used to say that the Protestant Church reminded him of a bus .. with the pews as seats, and the pastor as the driver leading everyone in ditties such as "Onward, Upward!"

[R. S. Martin]

Sounds like some people don't know too much about riding a bus or what it's like. I've been riding the same bus for several years and I feel very comfortable there. It's friendly. People chatting. People making room for someone to sit beside them if the bus is full. Young people giving up a seat for an older person.

 

All it takes to make the bus feel unfriendly is for an Old Order Mennonite or related group to be on the bus. That tenses me all up. Makes me feel like an alien invaded my safe territory. I see no comparison between bus culture and church culture.

 

People are always nicer to strangers than to people they've known for a long time. In bus culture people are, and remain, strangers. Not so in a church.

[Vixentrox]

What possible benefit could there be by remaining as moderator of prayer groups that you really have no commitment to? It's nothing but a falsehood, and I would suggest that in your mind it would do more harm than good. Ask yourself if you could really tolerate another three months of playing the game without falling apart at some point. Better to admit to yourself that you simply don't belong there, and move on. That's not being stupid, for you are decidedly not. It's being honest.

 

I can think of one benifit.....you would be in a position to SABOTAGE them!