sparkyone Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Well, this has been bothering me again lately, but it's something I've heard off and on at this particular church. The pastor specifically distinguishes between a statement or belief being "scriptural" or being "biblical". I'd try to think of an example, but it seems so absurd to make this distinction. I've even looked up the two words in the dictionary, and they are pretty much synonyms in reference to the bible. Did anyone here hear this when they were in church? I think the pastor uses it as one more way to discredit what someone else may have referred to as biblical basis for an activity, since in his view biblical isn't valid in the way scriptural is. Something like, well murdering babies might be Biblical (i.e. found in the Bible), but it sure ain't scriptural (i.e. something we should follow in practice). I'm not saying this is an example he has used, since I don't think he would refer to it in that way, but it's usually sillier stuff. Is this bordering on insane semantics? Help!!!!! sparkyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Is this bordering on insane semantics? Help!!!!! This is bordering on total ignorance with a flare for trying to impress people he's clever (a hack). What is this guy's education level? He never went to a seminary, did he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nude Disintegrating Parachutist Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Uh I vote for symantics...without "Biblical" there is NO "Scriptural", just the un-clever trying to impress the less-clever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Uh I vote for symantics...without "Biblical" there is NO "Scriptural", just the un-clever trying to impress the less-clever. This suggests that sparkyone is less clever than the un-clever pastor. From what I have seen of sparkyone, she is far too intelligent for this pastor. He is trying to trick her into believing he is the clever one. She is clever enough to notice the inconsistency and to seek more information. a less clever person than this wierd pastor would take him at his word because it sounds clever. That is how I size up the situation. CONFESSION: I am not totally sure who sparkyone is. I think this is the woman who wrote last fall about a teacher who is also her pastor, and he critiqued her for the shoes she got for her son. If this is not the same person, then I apologize for getting people mixed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkyone Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 Well, he didn't go to seminary and doesn't think it's necessary for a pastor to do so. Yes, Ruby, I'm the one you're thinking I am. I don't think it's very clever to say what he says about what I wrote because it seems so obvious that it's basically the same thing. Sparkyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 The sounds a lot like someone arguing the "letter of the law" versus the "spirit of the law." Seem to me they're going for something like "the bible" is just a collection of books but "the scripture" is the intent behind it. If this works then they can make it "say" whatever they want. A neat, although totally unoriginal, trick to control the churh if they can pull it off. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 The difference between "scriptural" and "biblical" is the difference between "shit" and "feces." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piprus Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 The bible IS the scripture. This is just an attempt to confuse. Pastors love their congregation to be confused, for it means the pastor has more control. And that is what xianity is all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
currentchristian Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 The bible IS the scripture. This is just an attempt to confuse. Pastors love their congregation to be confused, for it means the pastor has more control. And that is what xianity is all about. I haven't attended a church in 21 years (except on very rare occasions), so obviously I'm not enthralled by "church" or "pastors" or such things. Still, I don't think most pastors are seeking control or power over their congregations. Certainly not consciously. They may be doing so unconsciously -- as we all are, really, if you think about it (it's evolutionary). I think most religious leaders are just as "out of it" and "disconnected" as most of the rest of us are. They say stupid things, as we all do. -CC in MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 I think most religious leaders are just as "out of it" and "disconnected" as most of the rest of us are. They say stupid things, as we all do. Pretty much; a good deal of Xian leaders are slimeballs, for sure, as many leaders in other movements where ideology is a big thing are. At least that's my experience with it all. But most of them just seem to be deluded by their own bullshit. They spend too much time deceiving themselves (without any idea that they are doing so) and over-analyze their sect's particulars way too much, and end up believing their own lies. All the while not seeing them as lies to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piprus Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 The bible IS the scripture. This is just an attempt to confuse. Pastors love their congregation to be confused, for it means the pastor has more control. And that is what xianity is all about. I haven't attended a church in 21 years (except on very rare occasions), so obviously I'm not enthralled by "church" or "pastors" or such things. Still, I don't think most pastors are seeking control or power over their congregations. Certainly not consciously. They may be doing so unconsciously -- as we all are, really, if you think about it (it's evolutionary). I think most religious leaders are just as "out of it" and "disconnected" as most of the rest of us are. They say stupid things, as we all do. -CC in MA Then do you see a possible conflict here, CC? I was always taught that to be an ordained minister, you should have a "calling", a personal message from god or jebus himself to be a minister of the "gospel". Such a person could not possibly be out of it or disconnected, if they were personally "called" by the great god himself to the ministry. And I do think it's a control issue. After all, if "narrow is the way" as the xian scrip says, is it not the responsibility of the "shepherd" of the flock, to keep his (and I emphasize HIS) sheep on the straight and narrow "path"? After all, CC, it's for their own good...right? What I am coming to, CC, is the issue of fundamentalism versus the more expansive and gentler xianity you've pointed to in your many posts. Many fundies would find your interpretation of xianity to be "watered down" or even "counterfeit" xianity. I'm an ex-xian atheist, so personally I don't care. And I haven't gone to church in decades except for a couple of services to see for myself how the pentecostals did their thing. I posted this for your own consideration, for whatever you think it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
currentchristian Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Then do you see a possible conflict here, CC?I was always taught that to be an ordained minister, you should have a "calling", a personal message from god or jebus himself to be a minister of the "gospel". Such a person could not possibly be out of it or disconnected, if they were personally "called" by the great god himself to the ministry. And I do think it's a control issue. After all, if "narrow is the way" as the xian scrip says, is it not the responsibility of the "shepherd" of the flock, to keep his (and I emphasize HIS) sheep on the straight and narrow "path"? After all, CC, it's for their own good...right? What I am coming to, CC, is the issue of fundamentalism versus the more expansive and gentler xianity you've pointed to in your many posts. Many fundies would find your interpretation of xianity to be "watered down" or even "counterfeit" xianity. I'm an ex-xian atheist, so personally I don't care. And I haven't gone to church in decades except for a couple of services to see for myself how the pentecostals did their thing. I posted this for your own consideration, for whatever you think it's worth. You raise some good points. There's a lot of gray here. First, the issue of "calling." I think we "call" ourselves by means of our interets, abilities, skills, desires, hopes, dreams. Few of us see St. Paul's bright light or Moses's burning bush. Being "called" (whatever that is) doesn't make one infallible or smarter or wiser or even more moral than anyone else. Yielding to the better angels of our nature, walking "in the spirit" if you will, aids us along the path of righteousness, no doubt, but half the time we're off the path no matter what our calling or highest hopes for ourselves. Half the problems, or more, I find in my students (inmates) stem from their inability to "submit to authority," be that the authority of the police, the culture, their parents, their teachers, whatever. Being sufficiently confident of one's value and worth and sufficiently humble to walk as a member of the community as opposed to being at war with it, is important. I am not opposed to submitting to religious authority, either, if one chooses to associate with a religious community. The pastor is the shepherd, as the schoolteacher is or the police officer. I don't think I've rebutted anything you wrote, nor did I intend to. There's a lot of gray here. -CC in MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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