Ahh! Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 I think about this a lot. A lot of secular humanists/atheists/etc. say that someday people will begin to wake up to the fact that religion is utterly ridiculous and the cause of more troubles than it's worth but frankly I don't think they will. Quite frankly, I just don't believe the general population is smart enough to be secular. They don't question things. They don't think. I mean, I hate to be Bill O Reilly's ol' stereotype, the "secular elite", but I've noticed I am a lot smarter than most of the people I go to school with and the other people who are as smart as me tend to either be atheists/agnostics or are religious but don't really practice their religion. Is the general population too dumb to be secular? Even if they are smart enough, how are we ever going to make the case against religion on any massive scale? It certainly isn't going to be through the schools. They skip over events in history classes that might offend Christian audiences- after I left Christianity, I initially considered a conversion to Judaism and during that time, I learned just how many Jews Christianity killed. They didn't teach the brutal extent of what Christians did to Jews ALONE in schools, much less the horrors they've accomplished overall. The media? The religious world already labels it Satanic. And what about third world countries? From Africa to South America, these countries are becoming more Christian and more Islamic. The educational systems are ruled by religious organizations. In Europe, where there is some secularism, the muslims are taking over. No, my fear is secularists are a limited breed. All these violent religions are going to kill people until the most violent one rules over the world and brings it back into the middle ages. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Thoughts? my thoughts are AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! I have had these same kinds of thoughts. Part of it to me is secularisim is usally an appeal to logic and rationalism while religion is an appeal to emotion. Ask anyone who has ever tried to sell something.... emotional appeals work better, a gazallion times better. They are also a lot easier to put into short bite size blurbs to suit short attention spans. On my bad days I really think we are doomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 I think about this a lot. A lot of secular humanists/atheists/etc. say that someday people will begin to wake up to the fact that religion is utterly ridiculous and the cause of more troubles than it's worth but frankly I don't think they will. Quite frankly, I just don't believe the general population is smart enough to be secular. They don't question things. They don't think. I mean, I hate to be Bill O Reilly's ol' stereotype, the "secular elite", but I've noticed I am a lot smarter than most of the people I go to school with and the other people who are as smart as me tend to either be atheists/agnostics or are religious but don't really practice their religion. Is the general population too dumb to be secular? I think it'll happen eventually, but not for centuries, unless we kill each other off first. Then maybe the survivors will see the value of remaining secular. And no, I'm not an optimist when it comes to the possibility of nuclear warfare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 I also think that society will eventually reject Xianity, but that it will take time. Maybe not centuries, as Xianity has basically run dry. Never in human history has that damned cult been so thoroughly ridiculed in society and never have we been so actutely aware of its flaws. What allowed the Great Awakenings of the past to happen, in part, was the general ignorance of the public - many of Xianity's problems weren't even identified in past ages, much less widely known. Today is another story. There are fools in every society, and there will always be those who acknowledge the Abrahamic religions as true. However, with enough patience and work, critics fo these cults can eventually push them to the fringes of society, where they belong. All it will take is stubborn resistance to the threats and propaganda of the various cults - and the violence that some sects also lean towards. But Xianity's time has come. It bleeds from mortal wounds, and there will be no more Great Awakenings. That beast is done for. Is-lame will be a bigger problem for longer than Xianity will be. But it is not invulnerable, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnosis of Disbelief Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 These trends come and go, although I think it will be very difficult for human beings to give up on religion completely. I'll be more than satisfied if it is only the Abrahamic cults that die off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuaiDan Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Have you seen the movie Idiocracy? Sums it up. The stupid will outbreed the smart. Smart people are just too smart to have as many children as the stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 In Europe, where there is some secularism, the muslims are taking over. No, my fear is secularists are a limited breed. All these violent religions are going to kill people until the most violent one rules over the world and brings it back into the middle ages. Thoughts? Careful... we Europeans haven't thought about the potential danger of fundie islam for too long, that's true, but we are beginning to finally wake up. But indeed, it seems like the more intelligent (or educated) one is, the more likely one is to become at least not a fundie... whether one then becomes agnostic/atheist or similar is something I don't feel qualified to predict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exbeliever Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Is the general population too dumb to be secular? Thoughts? On the other hand, I've met a lot of really dumb atheists/humanists/secularists (hell, there are some here who believe I'm one of them). People hold beliefs for a lot of different reasons. Some have good reasons, others don't. Religion is very attractive because it has "answers"--sure, they are lousy answers, but some people would rather have these than no answers at all. I think the complexity of our society also fuels religious belief. When society is so hard to understand, it seems really nice to some to have a worldview that packages, labels, and explains all of life. I'm skeptical, but hopeful, about the downfall of religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Careful... we Europeans haven't thought about the potential danger of fundie islam for too long, that's true, but we are beginning to finally wake up. I'm glad to hear that Thur. It started to worry me many years ago, and I could see a future where a majority of Europe was strongly influenced by Islam. But if it is as you say, then Europe might start to fight back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 No, my fear is secularists are a limited breed. All these violent religions are going to kill people until the most violent one rules over the world and brings it back into the middle ages. Thoughts? Our society seems to think that "Might is right" has been overturned. Hello McFly! Physical power will always use strength to its advantage. It is a question of survival of the fittest. Anyone who argues that religion does not create a social unit that is most fit to survive a non-religious one has a very hard argument to make. I have yet to be convinced that religion will be extinguished or even wane significantly. But Xianity's time has come. It bleeds from mortal wounds, and there will be no more Great Awakenings. That beast is done for. Xtianity has bled mortal wounds many times before. Nothing *significant* has changed. Have you seen the movie Idiocracy? Sums it up. The stupid will outbreed the smart. Smart people are just too smart to have as many children as the stupid. I didn't see the movie but I'll keep an eye open for it. I find myself drawn to your conclusion. Unless a pandemic wipes out all those too dumb to wash their hands... ...Oops. Funny thing about nature. These guys will likely survive best because of their increased tolerance for disease. All the smart ones who currently wash their hands will die. Those who think intellegence reigns should ponder the mighty virus or the zillions of insects that occupy this planet. Rather than pondering the extinction of religion, a much better question to ask is, how close do you think we are from an evolutionary plateau where intellegence no longer becomes an advantage for survival? Mongo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 "We're all gonna die." - Sonny Landham in Predator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Careful... we Europeans haven't thought about the potential danger of fundie islam for too long, that's true, but we are beginning to finally wake up. I'm glad to hear that Thur. It started to worry me many years ago, and I could see a future where a majority of Europe was strongly influenced by Islam. But if it is as you say, then Europe might start to fight back. Well, I don't know if we will succeed in that, let alone when or how, but at least it has now dawned upon many people that if you tolerate others they will not necessarily tolerate you in turn. Even here, the dogma "all foreigners must be welcome, always, in any situation" is beginning to crumble. It kind of saddens me when I think of those muslims I got to know personally (they all are very okay, or else they are damn good liars!), but I realize the need to block (further) encroachment of fundyism here. And I know I'm not alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 "We're all gonna die." - Sonny Landham in Predator True, but at least we can try to take as many of them as possible with us on the ride to next week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 But Xianity's time has come. It bleeds from mortal wounds, "We're all gonna die." - Sonny Landham in Predator If it bleeds we can kill it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 But Xianity's time has come. It bleeds from mortal wounds, "We're all gonna die." - Sonny Landham in Predator If it bleeds we can kill it! *spits 'backy' juice on Purple's shoe.* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 "We're all gonna die." - Sonny Landham in Predator True, but at least we can try to take as many of them as possible with us on the ride to next week Time to break out The Flood Beagle. Err... Umm... Yeah! Somethin' like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eponymic Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Considering we've only been moving forward in intelligence & thought since the Renaissance Era. It'll probably be another 400-500 years before secular believers really start outnumbering the religious peoples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sage Nabooru Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 One thing that I find somewhat amusing about humanity, is that it always seems to assume that the conditions in place now, will be forever. In Buddhism and Hinduism and George Harrison songs, we hear about how "all things must pass". I think the fact that it sounds so dreamy is why a lot of people disregard it.....maybe. But the truth is we live in a transitory world. The conditions we live under now are assured no more permanence than the ones in the Middle Ages and the eighteenth century. Christianity might, although I sincerely doubt it, rule the world - but if it does, then it will lose it just as easily and life will, in fact, go on. The same with Islam, atheism, whatever. People thought the Roman Empire had the blessing of the gods; so did the Emperor of China, and the Soviet Union was the "indestructible union of free republics" (as its own national anthem sang). Britain, Spain, France, and Austria have all at one point held the title of Most Powerful European Country. Albeit human history is, relative to the universe, rather short. I'm sure that civilizations on other planets and such are already enjoying over a million years of existence while we've barely gotten our feet wet. But that only goes to show our instability. We could go anywhere from where we are right now. Christianity once ruled Europe in the form of the mideval church; Islam was once an empire in its own right and atheism was the only acceptable doctrine in the Communist Bloc. All of them staggered and fell eventually. I'm actually kind of excited right now. The human race is so young, we really have so little history to go on. And really what history we've had is primitive, based on fear and loathing. What lies around the corner should give us interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 This non-theistic discussion of what "is around the corner"/end of the world for humanity is hypnotizing, to say the least. I hoped it would go one for many more posts. It didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Maybe when the aliens (they have to be out there somewhere!) show up people will put thier silly tribal gods away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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