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Hubble Telescope/ The Universe/ And Reality


mick
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What do you guys think about this idea? After looking at that video I started googling Hubble Ultr Deep Field just to learn because it was so increible. Here is an idea that I ran across. In summary the idea, and for some reason I'm thinking it might true, is that we are seeing many many many galaxies in the Universe, MORE THAN ONCE, due to all the light from all these objects circumventing the univers over and over.

 

The very concept is based on the 3 Dimensional nature of the universe, and Einstein's thoery that space, and hence really the universe itself is completely curved by gravity. The idea is that these very distant galaxies are just relections of many other galaxies? (not really reflections, just another view of the same galaxies) if I understand it right, it would mean that light is traveling in all directions from any given object in the universe (like a galaxy) . We see the galaxy one time, from the light that is directly traveling toward us. AND possibly we see the light again as a galaxy, possibly many different times, from the light that travelled in other directions, that somehow circumvented the universe in some way. (Maybe like the universe is like a sphere like thing, and light can go around the whole thing. (Kind of like Columbus go around the earth and making it all the way back.) It would also be hard to tell if we are looking at the same object as another, because we would be seeing it from many different angles in 3 dimensions. (especially galaxies)

 

That theory almost seems plausible. (For me, I don't know why, it almost seems likely? -that could be crazy) It seems like the Hubble, picking uup the Ultra Deep Field Image, with ten's of htousands of galaxies i it, in such a tiny tiny patch of sky, makes this theory seem kind of possible. (Combined with the fact that are supposedly so far away)

 

What do you think?

 

PS.

 

I just added this. I was thinking more about this, and I think it at least has to happen, some of the time. (That we see deep objects more than once in the sphere of the sky.

 

Think about a black hole. A black hole's gravity cathes anything that comes near it, even light. However, if something just gets close enough to it, it will sling shot around around the black hole, even light. So, picture three onjects in space, the earth on one end, some far away galaxy in the middle, and the an even further distant balck hole. (The black hole is off at an angle, in other words not all three on a perfect line) Light from the galaxy goes off in all directions in 3 dimensions. We see the galaxy in the sky from the light coming straight at us. Now picture this; From somewhere else, light travels from that same galaxy, in any other direction, gets close enough to balc hole or Neutron Star, and sling shots around it, perfect comes back to earth, and we see the light again, in a totally different part of the sky. It would look like it was farther away then our other image of the galaxy. It would be a different angle so it's orientation would be different. If it was a spiral galaxy, it would just look another one of in the sky. It would be very hard to tell, or even know, if it was the same galaxy that we are already seeing somehwere else. This is some ways explains how the universe seems to be equally full of stuff in every direction we stare. (I read this also.) I am a total lay person, and basically just a fool, so I am sort of thinking out my arse. But still, what do you guys think?

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What do you guys think about this idea? After looking at that video I started googling Hubble Ultr Deep Field just to learn because it was so increible. Here is an idea that I ran across. In summary the idea, and for some reason I'm thinking it might true, is that we are seeing many many many galaxies in the Universe, MORE THAN ONCE, due to all the light from all these objects circumventing the univers over and over. .....

 

Interesting hypothesis. A prediction made from that hypothesis is that we should be able to compare the light from the reflected galaxies with the non reflected, or original, galaxy. The problem would be to find the reflected and original galaxy out of the billions of galaxies out there. Didn't Einstein say that if you traveled far enough you would end up where you started. Why not light too?

 

Oh well.... I'll stick with biology, it's much easier.

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Another little factoid to pin to the bulletin board inside my head. Very interesting. Thoroughly conceivable. Ponder the implications. It's conceivable (though extremely unlikely) that our galaxy is the only galaxy in the universe, and we're just witnessing it from different angles and different stages of formation over time. Wouldn't that be a trip?

Were that the case, however, it would probably seem that the images of our galaxy closest to our own would appear most similar, and those furthest away would appear more distinct.

No background in astrophysics, just taking a stab...

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In fact I'll even propose a name for this hypothesis. I'd call it House of Mirrors, because that's what it seems like.

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What do you guys think about this idea? After looking at that video I started googling Hubble Ultr Deep Field just to learn because it was so increible. Here is an idea that I ran across. In summary the idea, and for some reason I'm thinking it might true, is that we are seeing many many many galaxies in the Universe, MORE THAN ONCE, due to all the light from all these objects circumventing the univers over and over.

Disclaimer: I am not an astrophysicist or any physicist for that matter, astronomy is just a hobby.

Disclaimer 2: beware of spelling or grammatical errors, english is not my first language.

Seeing galaxies multiple times is an observed phenomenon. As you later described in your post, when the light gets close to a gravitational field like a black hole or another galaxy in its path, the light gets curved so we see multiple instances of the same further lying object. This is called a gravitational lens. It is unlikely however that due to a possible "spherical" curvature we see galaxies recurringly. Comparisons of observed galaxy clusters and temperature variations in the cosmic backround radiation from COBE and its successor WMAP have indicated that the curvature of the universe is extremely small. The going hypothesis is that the actual universe is vastly larger than the visible part of it. I heard Prof. Filippenko making the comparison that quite likely the rate of the actual universe compared to the visible universe is like the visible universe compared to a proton. Even if this were not the case, the fact that the curvature of the universe is so small an the speed of light is finite - i.e. we see galaxies as they were farther back in time the deeper we look - makes it unlikely that we see multiple recurrences of the same galaxy.

 

Cheers,

Rob

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I'll also throw in an additional factor. Since a galaxy is made up of potentially billions of stars, it would be highly unlikely to see this mirror effect you refer to. The light from each of those billions of stars would have to bend around a gravitational field equally or else the mirror image would be vastly distorted.

 

But it does bring up an interesting question in MY mind, which is: We have already identified billions of galaxies. How is it that the light from all those galaxies arrives to us without being distorted? Surely this light has passed many gravitational bends and black holes, has it not?

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Lately I'm been leaning toward, what we experts refer to, more of a finite, tunnel, internal universe. Rather than looking out at the Universe, we are looking inward at it, ever collapsing as we look. (In fact the more we look, the more we and it (the universe) collapses) In other words we are looking inward, donward, collapsing as we look, and becoming more finite as we look.

 

I'll also throw in an additional factor. Since a galaxy is made up of potentially billions of stars, it would be highly unlikely to see this mirror effect you refer to. The light from each of those billions of stars would have to bend around a gravitational field equally or else the mirror image would be vastly distorted.

 

But it does bring up an interesting question in MY mind, which is: We have already identified billions of galaxies. How is it that the light from all those galaxies arrives to us without being distorted? Surely this light has passed many gravitational bends and black holes, has it not?

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....Even if this were not the case, the fact that the curvature of the universe is so small an the speed of light is finite - i.e. we see galaxies as they were farther back in time the deeper we look - makes it unlikely that we see multiple recurrences of the same galaxy.

 

I don't think he was thinking about gravitational lensing, but that curved space thing. From what I read the astronomers were surprised at the way the galaxies in the Hubble Deep Field photo were so far along in their evolution. They were more compact, well formed, than they thought something that old should have been. (Our knowledge of what they should be is, of course, imperfect, and never will be perfect.) I was just pondering that the answer to that may be that the light from those galaxies could have taken the long way around the Universe? Probably not, but it's fun to think about.

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Well, most of my points have been made. Another thing to remember is that the distance involved to go all the way around the universe is immense. The brightness of a star diminishes as 3*pi*r*r/4. This is because the photons of the light are spreading out (photons stay the same size, gaps between are bigger) so we gather less and less photons from a light source the further it is away. Think of the brightest star in the sky and compare it with the sun. The other star might produce much more light but it is far away so it seems much dimmer than the sun. The stars you can see are (in cosmological terms) actually very very close, so if the light traveled all the way around the universe at a slight curve, by the time it got to us again, it would be billions of times dimmer, to the extent where even a single photon from it hitting earth would be unlikely, hense no light.

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  • 2 weeks later...

One minor flaw in the single galaxy refracted hypothesis; Galaxies seen in a more evolved form (and thus older) than ours.

 

Unless light can travel back in time, it seems unlikely we could see 'ourselves' at a later stage of development.

 

Question: Could the idea result in the observation that things are observed accelerating apart ?

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