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Desperate People, Impossible Superstitions


Kelli
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Got this in my e-mail today from a local list I'm subscribed to. The area I live in is heavily Catholic. I feel sorry for these people that they're so desperate that they are willing to turn to obtaining an article from a man who supposedly worked miracles as a list-ditch attempt to save a 33 year old woman's life.

 

>Who hasn't heard of Father Baker? All of us have in one way or

> another. Many believe that he can grant miracles. I believe. About

> twenty years ago, my mother prayed with a swatch of Father Bakers

> clothing. A few hours later she recieved a life saving phone call

> that a doner heart was avialable for her. Another story, a friend

> was givin a swatch of clothing when thier cancer was proving

fatal.

> They are now in remission.

> My family is need of another miracle. My cousin, 33, is dying

> because of a fungus in her lungs. She has died three times and has

> been brought back each time. All her other organs are strong and

are

> working as necessary. But now, she is in need of a miracle. I am

in

> serious need of any relic that belonged to Father Baker. I want

> desperatley to pray with her with it. It is very important to so

> many people. It is our last hope.

> If anyone has any relic that they could loan me, it would be a

true

> blessing.

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This seems so pitiful, so medieval...

Why can that family not, if they believe in the power of prayer, simply pray without a relic? What is the relic supposed to do?

I just can't understand catholicism.

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Piprus, I understand Catholics (some) believe relics of the saints have magical healing powers. Like Jesus supposedly healed people by touching them.

 

I don't think Catholics are more difficult to understand than regular automobile-operating Protestants who are not visibly identifiable Mennonite or Amish. In fact, from the buggy seat they all look the same. They're all dressed like the world and they all speak English and drive cars. Somehow, they all think they'll get accepted at the pearly gates....that's the really difficult part to understand about "worldly" Protestants. But once I get my head around that there's no problem with the Catholics.

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oh i can explain this.

 

you know how dracula can walk up to you and bend your cross backwards? Well if a catholic were to hold the same cross, dracula would pee in his pants.

 

A cross is just a cross but it is the faith in it that make it work. Same goes with an article from a soon to be saint? It is one in the world. A piece of clothing worn by yours truely who was touched by god's blessing. To most of us, if only science can understand how miracle works, it'll make us all believers.

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A cross is just a cross but it is the faith in it that make it work. Same goes with an article from a soon to be saint? It is one in the world. A piece of clothing worn by yours truely who was touched by god's blessing.

Do you mean the power of the mind? To a certain extent, yes; it has something to do with the placebo effect. But I don't think that the mind has the power to change physical reality. Just because I focus on believing I can walk on water, that doesn't mean I won't sink if I try it.

 

To most of us, if only science can understand how miracle works, it'll make us all believers.

No. If science could understand how a "miracle" works, it would make us knowers, not believers.

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No. If science could understand how a "miracle" works, it would make us knowers, not believers.

 

well let me try again...if science would know how miracle works, it would not be call a miracle by definition of such word that ties in the unexplained.

 

 

 

Do you mean the power of the mind? To a certain extent, yes; it has something to do with the placebo effect. But I don't think that the mind has the power to change physical reality. Just because I focus on believing I can walk on water, that doesn't mean I won't sink if I try it.

 

not the best of my strength here but i will try...the power of the mind can bend a spoon as it was seen on the ophra show?

 

just that a relic is needed for a better show. If it heals then cool, more explaining to do but if it doesn't, you have one dead christian and welcome the newest member to exchristian.net

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you know how dracula can walk up to you and bend your cross backwards? Well if a catholic were to hold the same cross, dracula would pee in his pants.

 

A cross is just a cross but it is the faith in it that make it work.

 

At last! A "True Christian" litmus test. Now we can finally find out who are the REAL Christians and ones that are just faking it... Now if I can just find a vampire...

 

:shrug:

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No. If science could understand how a "miracle" works, it would make us knowers, not believers.

 

well let me try again...if science would know how miracle works, it would not be call a miracle by definition of such word that ties in the unexplained.

Bingo.

 

 

Do you mean the power of the mind? To a certain extent, yes; it has something to do with the placebo effect. But I don't think that the mind has the power to change physical reality. Just because I focus on believing I can walk on water, that doesn't mean I won't sink if I try it.

 

not the best of my strength here but i will try...the power of the mind can bend a spoon as it was seen on the ophra show?

 

just that a relic is needed for a better show. If it heals then cool, more explaining to do but if it doesn't, you have one dead christian and welcome the newest member to exchristian.net

I'm rather critical of spoon bending. Did James Randi have anything to say on this topic (directed to the Randi fans out there)? Plus, I don't watch Oprah.

 

And...you have to die before you join exchristian.net? Maybe you mean "spiritually" dead? :shrug:

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not the best of my strength here but i will try...the power of the mind can bend a spoon as it was seen on the ophra show?

I'm rather critical of spoon bending. Did James Randi have anything to say on this topic (directed to the Randi fans out there)? Plus, I don't watch Oprah.

Back in the 80/90's there was a famous guy claiming he could bend spoons with the power of his mind... Uri Geller. Everything was going his way, he had people believing that it could be done, until he was caught on camera bending the spoon with his hands as he passed it across for examination. (and that was because he didn't know he was being filmed at the time)

 

He appeared on hundreds of shows, demonstrating his "skills" to everyone without being caught... so don't even bother with spoon-bending as any kind of evidence for anything other than how gullible some people are.

 

Video proof

 

 

 

While looking for a link, I ran across this lovely snippit... http://www.thenewpink.co.uk/2006/07/29/sho...xposed-as-fake/

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you know how dracula can walk up to you and bend your cross backwards? Well if a catholic were to hold the same cross, dracula would pee in his pants.

 

Uh, no, can't say as if I do. Been hanging with imaginary story characters much lately?

 

A cross is just a cross but it is the faith in it that make it work. Same goes with an article from a soon to be saint? It is one in the world. A piece of clothing worn by yours truely who was touched by god's blessing. To most of us, if only science can understand how miracle works, it'll make us all believers.

 

Sorry, but I had faith in a lot of BS of my years as a christian and it never did anything for me. Good analogy though, comparing the imaginary to the imaginary.

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just that a relic is needed for a better show. If it heals then cool, more explaining to do but if it doesn't, you have one dead christian and welcome the newest member to exchristian.net

 

Actually, chances are if the person is not healed they will just say it was "God's will" or "God works in mysterious ways" and keep on believing. The power of the mind to can be very amazing. This is why many of us here do not want to argue with a theist. Many theists will just come up with random reasons for their faith when pushed into a corner. You can't have a rational conversation with someone who will go to extremes to decieve themselves.

 

GreenXero

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ha ha..you guys are funny..maybe you should try the spoon bending trick like I did and do let me explain for how science and physic works with the spoon bending trick...afterall, it is still called a trick and not a miracle..

 

if you held onto a spoon for like hours and hours, the heat transfered from your body and onto the spoon will make the property of the spoon weak because heat is presented. Then apply wind and gravity and it depends on how thick your spoon is and how the structural strengh of the spoon that determine the bend of the spoon. ta da...

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Shaman,

 

If the spoon bending is just a trick, then your first posts are pointless. The joke is on you. We were talking about people who believe that a piece of cloth or other article from a person considered "holy" can cure cancer. There is no comparison, unless your point is that you agree with the rest of us that obtaining a "relic" as mentioned in the e-mail in my OP is nonsensical. If that's the case, you have a very trollish way of spelling it out.

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If the spoon bending is just a trick, then your first posts are pointless. The joke is on you. We were talking about people who believe that a piece of cloth or other article from a person considered "holy" can cure cancer. There is no comparison, unless your point is that you agree with the rest of us that obtaining a "relic" as mentioned in the e-mail in my OP is nonsensical. If that's the case, you have a very trollish way of spelling it out.

 

well who do you think i am? an internet christian troll? If you agree with what I say then I'm with the good guys. LOL

 

This may not be a relic but if you don't think it has any special power, I dare you to go to any church with a big hanging cross of jesus and go up to it and try to touch his feet....do report your finding because I think that is a scary thing to do...oh even if you/I/we don't believe in such a thing, I sure don't want to mess around with it and have spirits coming after me with voodoo and shit.

 

If you don't believe then nothing can stop you right? Make it a test of your own non christian faith to do the unthinkable and that is to touch relics and prove to the people that it is fake. Tell everybody that nothing is going to happen to you if you touch jesus penis on that cross.

 

if there are physical things that people do to prove their faith to be worthy enough of being a christian than there too should be a way for non believers to prove themselves that they are worthy enough to be a non christian.

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If the spoon bending is just a trick, then your first posts are pointless. The joke is on you. We were talking about people who believe that a piece of cloth or other article from a person considered "holy" can cure cancer. There is no comparison, unless your point is that you agree with the rest of us that obtaining a "relic" as mentioned in the e-mail in my OP is nonsensical. If that's the case, you have a very trollish way of spelling it out.

 

well who do you think i am? an internet christian troll? If you agree with what I say then I'm with the good guys. LOL

 

This may not be a relic but if you don't think it has any special power, I dare you to go to any church with a big hanging cross of jesus and go up to it and try to touch his feet....do report your finding because I think that is a scary thing to do...oh even if you/I/we don't believe in such a thing, I sure don't want to mess around with it and have spirits coming after me with voodoo and shit.

 

If you don't believe then nothing can stop you right? Make it a test of your own non christian faith to do the unthinkable and that is to touch relics and prove to the people that it is fake. Tell everybody that nothing is going to happen to you if you touch jesus penis on that cross.

 

Are you serious? The only reason I don't go into a church is that I have no reason to be there. I have gone to churches many times for weddings and such and I have no problem with touching the cross or any "relic" you want to hand me. As for doing something vulgar I wouldn't want to out of respect for others. I am a guest in their church and it would be extremely rude to go up and fondle Jesus on the cross. Just because we don't believe is no reason to be rude to people who want to believe.

 

Just for clarification, yes I have touched Jesus on the cross in church and nothing happened

 

GreenXero

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Ditto what GreenX said.

 

And you may not be a christian troll, but you're still a troll. If you were in agreement, then your posts definitely made less sense than I even thought originally. You seem to like to post shit just to post it and stir shit up.

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One thing that seems common with folks who believe in miracles is how often they ignore the situations where no miracle happened.

 

So one person was supposedly "healed" by contact with a piece of cloth from this asshat's outfit... how many other pieces of cloth were there? And how many people had them, and hoped for miracles too? A cured disease, for instance? And how many of those situations do we hear about?

 

None. Only the one where there was "success".

 

Funny how that works...

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you know how dracula can walk up to you and bend your cross backwards? Well if a catholic were to hold the same cross, dracula would pee in his pants.

 

A cross is just a cross but it is the faith in it that make it work.

 

At last! A "True Christian" litmus test. Now we can finally find out who are the REAL Christians and ones that are just faking it... Now if I can just find a vampire...

 

:shrug:

 

:lmao: Thank you for the laugh out loud Funniest post today, I needed that!! You get a medal! :Medal:

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If the spoon bending is just a trick, then your first posts are pointless. The joke is on you. We were talking about people who believe that a piece of cloth or other article from a person considered "holy" can cure cancer. There is no comparison, unless your point is that you agree with the rest of us that obtaining a "relic" as mentioned in the e-mail in my OP is nonsensical. If that's the case, you have a very trollish way of spelling it out.

 

well who do you think i am? an internet christian troll? If you agree with what I say then I'm with the good guys. LOL

 

This may not be a relic but if you don't think it has any special power, I dare you to go to any church with a big hanging cross of jesus and go up to it and try to touch his feet....do report your finding because I think that is a scary thing to do...oh even if you/I/we don't believe in such a thing, I sure don't want to mess around with it and have spirits coming after me with voodoo and shit.

 

If you don't believe then nothing can stop you right? Make it a test of your own non christian faith to do the unthinkable and that is to touch relics and prove to the people that it is fake. Tell everybody that nothing is going to happen to you if you touch jesus penis on that cross.

 

Are you serious? The only reason I don't go into a church is that I have no reason to be there. I have gone to churches many times for weddings and such and I have no problem with touching the cross or any "relic" you want to hand me. As for doing something vulgar I wouldn't want to out of respect for others. I am a guest in their church and it would be extremely rude to go up and fondle Jesus on the cross. Just because we don't believe is no reason to be rude to people who want to believe.

 

Just for clarification, yes I have touched Jesus on the cross in church and nothing happened

 

GreenXero

 

you should visit a church when it is empty to try such experiment without stirring up a fit with the general public. Consider what you are doing is a test to see if you are a true non christian. If it is indeed true what they say that if you don't believe in the easter bunny then nothing can happen to you then you exchristians are invincible to any wrath from god. Come on and be a hero and tell us weak souls about your journey to an area that proves your membership to be an exchristian. Just look at some statue of jesus in the eye and tell him how fake he is and how rediculous his followers are. I have money that nothing will happen to you too but it is whether you can do it or not will tell you a little bit more about your own truth in regards to religion. I mean the christian have their ways to test out their faith so why not exchristian?

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I can already see that this will be a never ending thing, so there is no way to prove that someone is a true nonbeliever to you. No matter what we do you will keep saying that is not enough. Just like many Christians will keep moving the goal posts and say that another person was not a "True Christian". I suppose for me to prove to you that I don't believe I will have to go into a church and do something that breaks the law. When that doesn't work you will have a new test. The problem with this is, I can keep doing tests and they cankeep failing until one day I die of old age. Once I die of old age, many Christians will say that god killed me for all the bad things I did even if i was 108 years old. We aren't kids anymore and I don't need to prove anything. I can also guess, that if I did something, not only would you not believe it anyway, but then later you would use it as proof that atheists are immoral people. Lose/lose situation for me.

 

Why don't you tell us what you think needs to be done in a church to "prove" we don't believe? You originally said touching Jesus on the cross would do it, but the goal was moved before I got there.

 

GreenXero

 

Sorry if I am feeding the troll, guys.

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I mean the christian have their ways to test out their faith so why not exchristian?

What? Ex-Christians need to test their faith?

 

Why should we need to test our faith, and what is our faith supposed to be in anyway?

 

 

Are you trying to say that we have faith that Jesus doesn't exist as shown in the bible? You do realise that it's a poor argument, don't you?

 

If we need faith to not believe something, then you must have faith that Zeus doesn't exist... that Kali doesn't exist... that Realiens don't exist... that the Tooth Fairy doesn't exist... and so on.

 

No faith is needed to not believe in something that has no evidence for it's existence... so what faith are you talking about?

 

 

 

 

By the way... full church, flicked the toe of the Jesus-on-a-cross... sweet fuck all happened.

 

Feel free to move the goalposts now.

 

 

(if you want to know, it was done to see if I could work out what it was made of... sounded like it was plastic)

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Yeah, you guys are feeding a troll. His posts aren't worth the electrons they're posted on. No head, no tail, no nothing. His posts are so much blank space. I never read them.

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