"you Will Not Go There. You Will Not Go There."

[Guest yolanda]

This is what one of my cousins told me when I told her I had visited a Unitarian church. When she said it, it felt like someone had locked the door to life itself and thrown away the key. She's a fundy, and she interprets everything the fundy way. So, according to her, Unitarians are from the enemy. She said, "It's not about what you want; it's about what He wants for you."

But I've met many nonchristians who were very pleasant to be around. Whether they are gay, Hindu, Bhuddist, atheist, or whatever, they are still human beings. Their minds are not controlled by the evil one any more than Ted Haggart's mind is controlled by Jesus Christ.

I've gotten to the point where I just don't want to waste my life on something that requires faith. What if this is the only life we have, and we end up spending the majority of it detached from reality? I feel like I'm stuck in a system that either shackles your mind, or shackles your mind. And a part of me feels like this cousin of mine is right. But then again, there are so many different kinds of people on the globe today that Christianity just doesn't make sense anymore. Oh, she also told me that I shouldn't try to make sense of things. Why not? I'm tired of seeing life as a cosmic war between good and evil. I'm tired of trying to remind myself that the enemy is fighting for my soul.

I think I'm going to return to the Unitarian church, and if my cousin decides to hand me over to Satan and shake the dust off her feet, then so be it.

[Mythra]

I've been out of religion long enough now, that the whole thing has taken on an air of ironic absurdity. The battle is not between good and evil. The battle is between fantasy worlds and reality.

 

Don't try and make sense of things!!! What a joke.

 

Just turn off your mind, and sit down here in this pew, and waste the rest of your life praising an invisible, silent, imaginary entity.

 

Phew. Sure glad I escaped that nonsense.

 

I like how your cousin seems to think she can tell you what you can and can't do. Personal instruction from Jayy-zuss-huh! I'm sure.

[The Sage Nabooru]

"It's what God wants for you"? You should go over to Amazon.com and read some of the reviews fundies left for Conversations with God and other metaphysical books. Because ya know, evangelizing over internet shopping sites really makes a difference.

 

Basically they say, "Oh, yeah, just run away to the NICE, HAPPY God who's all about LOVE and NON-JUDGEMENT and PEACE and all that tree-hugging hippy crap! Just go ahead and take the easy route with your GOD-FRIEND who wants YOU to be HAPPY and thinks YOU should decide what to do with your life! Meanwhile, us SANE people will stick to our ONE TRUE GOD of DEMANDS and LAWS and FINAL RECKONING who GETS ANGRY and WANTS BLOOD and METES OUT WRATH! We know God doesn't want us to be happy and successful! God demands sacrifice! Prepare to boil in the lake of fire, New Age Yurt-dwellers!"

[Lightbearer]

I've been out of religion long enough now, that the whole thing has taken on an air of ironic absurdity. The battle is not between good and evil. The battle is between fantasy worlds and reality.

 

You know, another irony is that self-delusion and calls for sacrifice to the non-existant.

 

 

This is what one of my cousins told me when I told her I had visited a Unitarian church. When she said it, it felt like someone had locked the door to life itself and thrown away the key. She's a fundy, and she interprets everything the fundy way. So, according to her, Unitarians are from the enemy. She said, "It's not about what you want; it's about what He wants for you."

But I've met many nonchristians who were very pleasant to be around. Whether they are gay, Hindu, Bhuddist, atheist, or whatever, they are still human beings. Their minds are not controlled by the evil one any more than Ted Haggart's mind is controlled by Jesus Christ.

I've gotten to the point where I just don't want to waste my life on something that requires faith. What if this is the only life we have, and we end up spending the majority of it detached from reality? I feel like I'm stuck in a system that either shackles your mind, or shackles your mind. And a part of me feels like this cousin of mine is right. But then again, there are so many different kinds of people on the globe today that Christianity just doesn't make sense anymore. Oh, she also told me that I shouldn't try to make sense of things. Why not? I'm tired of seeing life as a cosmic war between good and evil. I'm tired of trying to remind myself that the enemy is fighting for my soul.

I think I'm going to return to the Unitarian church, and if my cousin decides to hand me over to Satan and shake the dust off her feet, then so be it.

 

I've never been to a Unitarian church. All I know is that they are considered "New Age" or whatever. About your cousin, tell em it's non of their business and that you don't give them this kind of crap so they should apply the "Golden Rule" not annoy the shit out of you.

[godlessgrrl]

I'd say the only appropriate response to "You WILL NOT DO X" is "I'll do what the fuck ever I want!"

 

But that's just me.

[Thurisaz]

This is what one of my cousins told me when I told her I had visited a Unitarian church. When she said it, it felt like someone had locked the door to life itself and thrown away the key.

 

Welcome to fundyism. :angry:

 

But I've met many nonchristians who were very pleasant to be around. Whether they are gay, Hindu, Bhuddist, atheist, or whatever, they are still human beings.

 

Indeed. That morontheist claim that just because someone's not in the same cult as herself she must therefore be evil stands exposure to reality about 0.4722 seconds, on average. It's pure bullshit.

 

I feel like I'm stuck in a system that either shackles your mind, or shackles your mind.

 

Again, welcome to fundyism.

 

Oh, she also told me that I shouldn't try to make sense of things. Why not?

 

Because thinking about the fundy dogma inevitably exposes it as crap.

 

I think I'm going to return to the Unitarian church, and if my cousin decides to hand me over to Satan and shake the dust off her feet, then so be it.

 

Call me cruel if you want to, but a purebred fundie in my opinion deserves exactly 0, in words, zero, respect or tolerance. They want to treat others like shit, surely they can stand if they are treated the same. If they can't, boo-fucking-hoo. "You're breaking my heart, now get lost".

[Thurisaz]

I've never been to a Unitarian church. All I know is that they are considered "New Age" or whatever.

 

If the UU church in Second Life is at least half-average for this group, methinks they are very very OK. Absolutely tolerant, welcoming everyone.

With the possible exception of total atheists, but from what I've seen, they'd probably tolerate them too. If the atheists should see a reason to drop in there, that is.

[narcissist]

Maybe god wants you to go to the Universalist Church?

 

This was a big key in my deconversion:

But I've met many nonchristians who were very pleasant to be around.

 

According to the fundies, all the nonchristians are supposed to be sad, lonely, searching, confused, with their "God shaped holes", while the christians were supposed to be confident, assured, stable, saved, etc. I found the opposite true. As you have.

[Trancelation]

Yolanda:

 

Good luck with the Unitarian church. There is one where I live, and I've considered attending it, though I've never found the time. Your cousin sounds like a real winner. Does this person usually command persons/places/things to not do things they do not want them to do? Are they dissapointed when they don't? and on the rare coccasioan that something that he or she commands DOES happen, does he or she chalk it up his or herself or the Wonders of The Lard?

[Ex-COG]

I've never been to a Unitarian church. All I know is that they are considered "New Age" or whatever.

 

If the UU church in Second Life is at least half-average for this group, methinks they are very very OK. Absolutely tolerant, welcoming everyone.

With the possible exception of total atheists, but from what I've seen, they'd probably tolerate them too. If the atheists should see a reason to drop in there, that is.

I attend a UU church. You might call it a church with out a creed. People are allowed to explore and develop their spirituality or ethical questions and come to their own conclusions. My church has agnostics, atheists, pagans, and others, including a few who might still describe themselves as Christian, but only in the most liberal way (Jesus is not seen as divine). I suppose some people may think of the Unitarians as "New Age" because they are accepting of the pagans among them, but not every Unitarian would consider themselves to be "New Age". Each church is different too, which gives flavor to how the service is conducted or what types of meetings are held there. Of course, fundamentalist/evangelical Christians think of the Unitarians as following a false religion, since we don't believe in the be-born-again-in-Jesus story.

 

Yolanda, if you feel the need for community or a safe place to search out your own belief or non-belief, ignore your cousin and go where you want to go to find it. And don't let the fundies get to you!

[Rhia]

Don't let her push you around! If you're happy, stay there! She can take her scriptures and shove them up her ass right next to the rod already there!

[Carolyn the Red]

I've never been to a Unitarian church. All I know is that they are considered "New Age" or whatever. About your cousin, tell em it's non of their business and that you don't give them this kind of crap so they should apply the "Golden Rule" not annoy the shit out of you.

 

I went to a UU fellowship for a while, and it was nothing like "New Age", or really a church. The group I attended had people come in to speak about moral, ethical, and political issues every week, then discussed them, and sometimes made plans to act on them (arranged rides to political meetings, nomination meetings for every party, organized letter-writing campaigns, organized volunteers for various causes, etc). I know some of them still considered themselves christian, and others, including me, were pretty much atheist, but it was really irrelevant to everything about the fellowship.

 

The cousin sounds like a fun one, though. (roll of eyes) Tell her that clearly, if you're becoming unitarian, god must want that for you, since he's kind of in charge and everything.

[NotBlinded]

I also go to a UU church (when I can get up early enough!). The one I go to is the oldest in Southwest, since 1893. Not New Age at all. Actually, Thomas Jefferson was a Unitarian and thought the entire country would soon be too, but he didn't realize the force of fundamentalism I guess.

 

If your cousin can't handle it, then that is her problem. It's your journey.

[StewartP]

"It's what God wants for you"? You should go over to Amazon.com and read some of the reviews fundies left for Conversations with God and other metaphysical books. Because ya know, evangelizing over internet shopping sites really makes a difference.

Thanks for that Sage. Top tip. I went over there to read those reviews. Most entertaining.

 

That's a whole new seam to mine.

[R. S. Martin]

The impression I get from this thread is that UU is a buddy group for those of us who want friends but don't want to worship a higher being. I attended one service with a classmate who identifies as a Christian UU. She described it to me a lot like Carolyn and Ex-COG describe it in this thread. Maybe I'll try them sometime. No promises, though. The fellowship here on this forum is just great.

[R. S. Martin]

As for cousins telling me what to do--my aunts, uncles, and cousins don't know where I am and my family is so anxious to maintain what relationship I allow, that no cousin is going to have that power over my life. But I know.......in some families cousins are intimate relatives. However, when intimate relatives restrict what we are allowed to believe in our own personal heart, then that relative may need to either back off or be cut off. Conscience is off-limits to them.

[Curtdude]

....I've gotten to the point where I just don't want to waste my life on something that requires faith. What if this is the only life we have, and we end up spending the majority of it detached from reality?

 

.....she also told me that I shouldn't try to make sense of things. ....

 

Hi Yolanda,

 

Welcome. I agree w/ you - why waste a life on something you have ZERO assurance is real? The amount of faith it takes to believe in evangelical Christianity is exactly the same amount of faith required to believe in Islam, or Mormonism, or any of the other 1000s of religions in the world.

 

I'd also chime in with you that as far as we know, this IS the only life we have. If there's more, no one has been able to come back and give us a play-by-play.

 

Hehehehe, I love it when True Believers say "oh don't worry your pretty little head about that." In other words, hang your brain out and never use an ounce of common sense.

 

Again, welcome.

[R. S. Martin]

Discovered this thread and I see I posted some pretty arrogant stuff a year ago about how little power my cousins and other relatives had over me and my life.

 

As for cousins telling me what to do--my aunts, uncles, and cousins don't know where I am and my family is so anxious to maintain what relationship I allow, that no cousin is going to have that power over my life. But I know.......in some families cousins are intimate relatives. However, when intimate relatives restrict what we are allowed to believe in our own personal heart, then that relative may need to either back off or be cut off. Conscience is off-limits to them.

 

Two or three weeks after this was posted life turned upside down and all my relatives entered my life uninvited. Mom passed away. It was the first funeral in my immediate family. All ties and boundaries with all relatives from immediate family to distant cousins had to be reconsidered, renegotiated, redefined, etc. These forums played an important part in the process.

 

Yolanda, you've come onto the forums again. I apologize for that post. Hopefully you can get things sorted out, too. I know you're at a different place now than you were a year ago...

[Guest yolanda]

RubySera,

 

I'm at the point now where I have no choice. I've reached a critical mass. Either live a lie in misery for the happiness of my cousin, or live a life of integrity and let the chips fall where they may. Luckily, my extended family is nonbelieving for the most part. My aunt is agnostic, my brother is secular, as well as most of my cousins. But they live in another region of the country. I plan to move to be closer to them. In doing that, I'd kill two birds with one stone: be closer to relatives and get out of the Bible belt.

As for my Calvinist cousin here in town, she'll just have to live with it. I'm at the point of no return.

Thanks for keeping me in mind and making that post... that's more impacting than any prayer.

[Kenny]

In specific regards to your post, RubySera, I don't think what you said was arrogant and I don't think there's any reason to apologize for your remarks at all. Life comes day to day and what's unimportant this evening may be of utmost urgency tomorrow and vice-versa. You said what you said WHEN YOU SAID IT and, therefore, it's relevant. Nothing to be sorry for or to regret.

 

I think for many of us, we consider what our families say and think to be important. We may not agree with it or follow along, but they're our family. I'm reminded of the conversation between Mandatory Chaos and Grandpa Harley where GH referred MC's sister as a "bitch". He was quick to mention that she was still his sister and that he didn't appreciate that. Good on him. In some ways, my wife's beliefs drive me up a wall and it really bothers me that she hangs out with granola (a.k.a. - fruits, nuts, and flakes). But I love her dearly. We simply don't know the relationship between Yolanda and her cousin. I think it's safe to say that the majority of us think it's a real shit deal that she's busting her chops about where she goes to church and we all know that going against the family grain can be nerve wracking to say the least.

 

For Yolanda... you're going to have to make the decision that lets you sleep well at night. That may take some courage on your part to stand up to your cousin. But if you're looking for several good sets of ears, we're listening. There are many stories that mirror yours here. What's important is that you do what's best and healthiest for you. You'll have our support as you're making your transition(s) and finding your way. Good luck to you.

[RankStranger]

I'd say the only appropriate response to "You WILL NOT DO X" is "I'll do what the fuck ever I want!"

 

But that's just me.

 

That, or "go fuck yourself" will do nicely.

 

 

I've never been to a Unitarian church. All I know is that they are considered "New Age" or whatever.

 

If the UU church in Second Life is at least half-average for this group, methinks they are very very OK. Absolutely tolerant, welcoming everyone.

With the possible exception of total atheists, but from what I've seen, they'd probably tolerate them too. If the atheists should see a reason to drop in there, that is.

 

The local UU church here in Wichita KS has tolerated me for a few months. I'm still not sure that this is 'my thing' long-term, but I'd highly reccommend that godless folks give them a try. I've enjoyed it so far.

[PandaPirate]

I've been out of religion long enough now, that the whole thing has taken on an air of ironic absurdity. The battle is not between good and evil. The battle is between fantasy worlds and reality.

 

Don't try and make sense of things!!! What a joke.

 

Just turn off your mind, and sit down here in this pew, and waste the rest of your life praising an invisible, silent, imaginary entity.

 

Phew. Sure glad I escaped that nonsense.

 

I like how your cousin seems to think she can tell you what you can and can't do. Personal instruction from Jayy-zuss-huh! I'm sure.

 

The way I see it is that we are our own enemies. There's no "devil" outside of ourselves trying to make our lives miserable. We all have a good side and a bad side and whichever one you feed the most is the one that is strongest.

[Amethyst]

Hi Yolanda,

 

I think you should do whatever works for you. It's your life; if you spend it trying to make everyone else in it happy, you'll just make yourself miserable. I've learned this the hard way. It is definitely a good thing to take the time to research other religions and see if they are the path for you. Or no religion at all, if that works better. Good luck.

[R. S. Martin]

Thanks for keeping me in mind and making that post... that's more impacting than any prayer.

 

Thank you, Yolanda. May I hug you--that's such a kind thing to say.

 

Your proposed move sounds like a wise decision. You're not the first person to move in order to make a new start in life. It's amazing what a move can do--new people who don't remember the old me with all the old baggage. Okay, we may not want to keep running all our life because that might not be a life. But this sounds like a major "new start." It was for me. All the best as you figure out all the details.

 

Kenny, you're right. When I wrote that post things were as I said. It helps me realize how much things really did change in the middle of March 2007, but that's another story.