If You Don't Like My Language.....

[trashy]

Like many of you, I spent my formative years in a fundamentalist Christian environment where 'swear words' were not allowed. Yet there was one word that I, for some unknown reason, attempted to argue with my parents about. That word was crap. For some reason, out of all of the swear words my peers were using, that one seemed to be quite innocuous. I explained this to my parents every time I used it and they scolded me for it, and eventually I came to use it every so often without any particular comment from them. I didn't realize it at the time, but it was proof that the entire concept of 'swear words' is a purely human construct with its origins in fundamentalist religion.

 

So, after almost 40 years of being a good Christian and attempting to control my language I have a lot of time to make up! I have a lot of pent-up cussing to do, and I do it with relish! I do it without thinking, really, but if I sense that someone around me is getting uncomfortable, I do it on purpose. I refuse to let silly semantics or religious attitudes impinge on my perfectly proper use of the English language! And don't even try to use the tired old canard about how swear words are a sign of someone who is lazy and can't be bothered to come up with proper words. I happen to have a rather large vocabulary. As a young child I was a voracious reader. I remember getting frustrated with other classmates during reading exercises, often helping them out with pronunciation (much to the chagrin of my teacher) -- and this was in the 1st grade! Before I was 10 I had read Jules Verne's 'Mysterious Island' and was a Robert Heinlein fan. So when I swear like a sailor I do it with gusto and intent.

 

Strangely enough, I have written this entire post without cussing (except for the title). That is probably a good thing, as to cuss would certainly distract someone from the gist of my message. But to those of you who still feel a twinge of guilt when uttering (or hearing) a piece of 'salty' language, I say stop - be free of the chains of religion, be free of unreasonable societal taboos! Join me in my campaign to set language free from its bondage to imaginary deities!

 

So who's with me? Can I get a 'hell yeah?'

[Vigile]

IMO a few well place swear words makes for very effective communication. The emotional impact of certain words on some people gives 4 letter words a greater impact than most $65 words.

 

I tend to swear a lot to. And like you, its reflexive due to bitting my tongue so much while growing up.

[Lycorth]

So who's with me? Can I get a 'hell yeah?'

 

How about a "fuck yeah"?

 

I swore like a sailor when I was little, mainly because my father did. He didn't say "fuck" but he made up for it with other language. Most kids and parents I knew also swore alot, so I was fine with it. Today, I still sling "swear words" around like common adjectives, and don't see why I should not.

 

Swear words are overrated. Especially "fuck" - and the only reason this word is sooo wrong is, I think, because of Xian culture and its phobia about sex. After all, "fuck" refers to having sex, in a blunt and straightforward fashion. It's no wonder various Xian sects and cultures would try to discourage this word's use, because it refers to one of the most dirty things a person could do. The Babble is very clear that sex is to be tolerated only for procreation, and not even enjoyed during that. It's very anti-sex, and naturally, cultures based on Xianity will be anti-sex in general. That's probably why "shit" is even considered less abhorrent than "fuck" - even taking a crap is thought of better than having eeevil, filthy sex in general Xian culture

 

Swear words only have the power they do because of Xianity's attempts to "sanitize" humanity with its spiritual chlorine. Just think of the portrayal of the Mormons in South Park. I have no doubt that this is the aim of any fervent Xian sect, to create a bland, homogenized world, all for the sake of impressing their "meek and mild" Lord Enslaver.

 

Well... fuck Jebus

[Japedo]

Oh Hell Yes!!

[godlessgrrl]

Cunting fuck yeah!

 

Incidentally, I've always been a bit puzzled as to why the word "cunt" is so tremendously taboo. I mean it's even more offensive than "fuck" or "shit" or what have you... around here it gets the same treatment as the word "nigger". I can see more easily why "nigger" gets the kind of response it does, given its context, its history, and how it generally tends to be used (by white people, as an intentionally demoralizing racial slur) - but "cunt" is simply a raw, Indo-European word which means exactly one thing: female genitalia.

 

But then maybe that's why it's taboo: it's the only word referring to female genitalia that isn't either a euphemism, a metaphor, or some other indirect kind of word like that. It means exactly what it means, nothing more or less. Maybe that bothers people, in the same way that full frontal male nudity in mainstream films does.

 

I should note that I've only ever been called a cunt by insecure little men with far smaller cojones than my own. It stung at first, until I realized they were just calling me exactly what I am, and calling me exactly what lies between my own legs - and what's so awful about that, really? Cunts are the seat of ultimate pleasure for a woman, and for a lot of men, and the place where new people are made, and the place where we first arrive on the scene at the beginning of our lives. A powerful spot, that, and no bad thing.

 

So yeah. I'm a fucking cunt. Woo!

[DucorpsToo]

Ah yes...swear words.

 

Speaking of the word "cunt"..check out this video featuring an African Grey parrot with a potty-mouth. An African Grey has an uncanny ability of not only for speaking, but for also imitating its owner's voice. (My African Grey is more interested in human whistling and other noises such as telephone ringtones and microwave beeps rather than human speech.) This bird in this video has an English accent....

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7L-nbOxYqU

[R. S. Martin]

Trashy, I noted with amazement that you wrote paragraph after paragraph of “clean,” “printable” English. It’s such an excellent piece of writing that it occurred to me that possibly you wrote it for something more than just our forum. Whatever the case, I like it. And I don’t care if the rest of you swear but I don’t feel the need to. I have a broad vocabulary and the English language seldom fails me.

 

 

I’m just not in the habit of using swear words. I’d have to learn a new way of thinking and speaking. Oh sure, it’s a vestige of my Christian days but so what? So are a whole batch of other things in my life. I don’t think I have to remake myself just to fit it. Hell, that’s why we left religion, isn’t it? So we can be who we really are. And yeah, the salty language gives this place its special flavour. Folk swearing all over the place just as a means of expression and nobody getting offended—I love that.

 

 

It’s the meaning behind the words that counts. I had a prof some years ago whose lectures were one blue streak of swearing. He swore so cheerfully up and down and all over that it was impossible for me to take offense. It was his way of talking. He called himself an atheist but I found it impossible to actually believe that he was an atheist. He is a pretty special person. Made a huge impact on my sense of self value.

 

 

I shared with him a few items of abuse I had experienced. He seemed totally nonplussed why anyone would treat a human being like that. He said in his religious tradition life is what is valued. He said his background is Jewish.

[Dhampir]

I remember once I made a collect call home after school to ask if I could go to a friend's house and hang out for a while, and as I was making the call, something about the nature of the call pissed me off, and as I was giving my name, I said something like " this shit takes too long" or something, not realizing that the recorder was still operating.

 

Later on, my father tells me something to the effect that that type of language is indicative of poor speaking skills, or a low vocabulary, or something like that. Being the sage that he was, I accepted this, but years later, I had been cursing regularly, but I realized that at any point, I could replace my 'gutter speech' with words and phrases of greater eloquence than many people who claimed to never curse at all. My ability with words and command of the English language is in no way diminished by the (sometimes frequent) use of so-called swear words. I don't have to use them, that is I am not constrained by them, but it just seems like sometimes such words are among the best suited to express certain emotions. And they just roll off the tongue so nicely.

 

Aside from a couple words, only 1 of which is actually still considered a curse, all these other swear words come with an ages old conditioning toward repulsion. If you ask enough questions about why these words are taboo, everyone who tried to answer would eventually be rendered unable to suitably answer: they're only bad because everyone thinks they are.

[garrisonjj]

Like many of you, I spent my formative years in a

 

My teaching partner, female, and myself regularly swear together like sailors! For us I am sure its a fuckin release after being careful with children all day. We regularly use fuck and jesus christ as we discuss matters or vent and it is very refreshing. When I practiced faith, I'd regularly see this partner at the communion line even though she has the filthiest fuckin mouth I know in life. Good for her!

[narcissist]

Some thoughts:

 

I used to put on the christian 'facade' when in public, then when at home, in private, the swear words would all come out.

 

Christians don't mind you torturing and killing a thousand innocent "Godless heathens", just don't swear while your doing it.

 

Finally, if it wasn't for swear words, we'd be fucked.

[Vigile]

Gwenmead, if you want to hear more of the word cunt, watch the series Deadwood. No one could survive an episode playing the word "cunt" in a drinking game.

[Lycorth]

Christians don't mind you torturing and killing a thousand innocent "Godless heathens", just don't swear while your doing it.

 

Heh - exactly. Preach about how all non-Xians are led by the devil and will justly burn in Hell for their horrible sins against their Lord Enslaver - just don't use any naughty words!

[sheilanagig]

I work with at-risk kids, and one day one of the girls was talking to me and said something about the word "clit" being a bad word. I told her that it was NOT a bad word and was in fact a short form of the latin anatomical term for a part of her body. She and the other girl squirmed uncomfortably at this. I just don't get how body parts can be cuss words. Especially the feminine ones. Of course, think of all the negative feminine words in our vocabulary. Cunt, pussy, bitch. Then there are the male words, like prick, dick, tool. Then none of them are really as bad as the feminine ones. Our society has been so fucked over by the church that it's unreal. There's another thread about how sex is worse than violence in our society, and just look at what our profanity reflects? It's because the church has told us for ages and ages that sex is bad, mmmmkay?

 

Me? I swear more than I should. I really need to show my education a little bit more. I've even said "fuck" in front of my grandma. I told her about why I left the church, and explained that in the bible "women are either brainless parasites or actively trying to fuck you up". I got a raised eyebrow when that word left my mouth.

[Ro-bear]

I think the key to effective communication is an awareness of audience. There are times, places, and situations where salty language may be used for emphasis or humor without causing anyone discomfort. But to be honest, I bristle when people, usually drunk or immature, drop the F-bomb in front of my young daughters. Words like crap, ass, boobs, shit, damn, etc. are easier to shrug off, although I think using them in front of children shows a distinct lack of consideration. There are times I choose to swear myself, for emphasis or humor, and I find that the impact of such words is enhanced because I so rarely use them.

 

It may seem arbitrary that some words cause offense and others do not, but is the same not true of behavior? For instance, nature has bestowed upon me a penis. I am not ashamed of it, and there is nothing intrinsically wrong with it. There are times when I would like to wave it about, let it feel the cool breeze. I refrain, however, in consideration of the delicate sensibilities of my fellow human beings, or else seek out a remote, private, or appropriate venue for "airing it out". There are times when the freedom of the individual should be self-constrained for the happiness of society at large. This is part of the societal give-and-take that keeps us from killing each other.

[sheilanagig]

It may seem arbitrary that some words cause offense and others do not, but is the same not true of behavior? For instance, nature has bestowed upon me a penis. I am not ashamed of it, and there is nothing intrinsically wrong with it. There are times when I would like to wave it about, let it feel the cool breeze. I refrain, however, in consideration of the delicate sensibilities of my fellow human beings, or else seek out a remote, private, or appropriate venue for "airing it out". There are times when the freedom of the individual should be self-constrained for the happiness of society at large. This is part of the societal give-and-take that keeps us from killing each other.

 

Sincerely, I believe that people should not be ashamed of their bodies or embarrassed by their own or those of others. Part of the reason people have such delicate sensibilities is that we are ashamed of sex. Follow my line of thought, it does make sense in the end. We are ashamed of sex, so we hide it. We have modesty taboos, so we cover our bodies. This leads to us only seeing naked people when we're about to have sex or whack off. That's why we freak out so much when we see someone naked out of that context. It blows some fuses in our christian heads. If we're not xian, we shouldn't freak out over it. Sex is not the original sin to us, nor are our bodies evil things to be loathed. Children should see nudity. Adults should see nudity. Everyone should be comfortable with it and be able even to accept that not everyone looks the way models do when they're naked. I think I'd be a lot more comfortable with aging if I had been able to see what it looks like on other people. I would have had less confusion about sex and puberty if I'd seen what people look like in maturity.

 

As it is, we have to go out to a remote spot at night to skinny-dip, or build a twelve-foot fence so the neighbors don't report us. Even our laws are based on the xian loathing of nature.

 

*sigh*

 

It's not just the language. I understand that you can't send your kids to school swearing like sailors. It would probably cost them a lot of their education if they were being constantly sent to the principle's office. I understand that you'd like them socialized for survival in the society we live in. They can't be successful in this environment if they don't know the rules. I'm saying that I don't like those rules. Maybe there should be an atheist community IRL, somewhere in Montana or something. There people could try to shuck off all the shitty things xianity has brought us to.

[Ro-bear]

I'm saying that I don't like those rules.

 

 

I understand that, and you make some excellent points. I think it's a shame that most of us have to find a remote spot to go bare, particularly given the scarcity of such places. Most of us are not within driving distance of a beach that doesn't harass or even prosecute "nature folk". It's a pity.

 

I don't think Christianity is entirely to blame, although it is largely responsible for our "modesty" and shame in the western world. Judaism and Islam are even worse for body shame. Too bad we can't be as open as many aboriginal, Polynesian, and African societies were before we imposed our mores on them.

[sheilanagig]

Well think about it for a minute too. You wouldn't want other people to be naked around your kids because you'd be almost certain there was some nasty sexual aspect to it. You wouldn't be naked around your kids because you'd be worried that someone else would be certain of a nasty sexual agenda too. The reason you'd think it about someone else is because you know this society and how people are socialized. The reason someone else would think it is because it's all too common for that to be the case. Naturists know this isn't true of themselves, but they have to admit that someone else might not feel that way. I suspect that they're very paranoid of new members to the club, in case it's some drooling pervert who has the wrong idea.

 

I think our whole prevalence of sex-crime in our society is based in the semetic religions. There might be some in islam, but islam was after all based on the judeo-christian tradition. In the early English laws, rape was punished by death, because it embodied the three worst aspects of crime in one act. In the babble, if a man rapes a girl in town she must be stoned for not crying out. He doesn't even get a slap on the wrist. In the country, she won't get stoned because nobody was there to hear her. If a virgin is raped, the rapist is supposed to marry her and pay a fine to her dad for ruining her value for marriage. Then of course there's Lot and his daughters. Or even that story in Judges about the man who hands his concubine to a gang of rapists and then when he finds her dead on his doorstep cuts her into pieces and sends them out to the 12 tribes.

 

Our view of sex crimes and sexuality and everything else was pretty badly fucked up beyond all recognition by the judeo-christian tradition. Seriously, SERIOUSLY, it's their fault.

[trashy]

I think the key to effective communication is an awareness of audience. There are times, places, and situations where salty language may be used for emphasis or humor without causing anyone discomfort. But to be honest, I bristle when people, usually drunk or immature, drop the F-bomb in front of my young daughters. Words like crap, ass, boobs, shit, damn, etc. are easier to shrug off, although I think using them in front of children shows a distinct lack of consideration. There are times I choose to swear myself, for emphasis or humor, and I find that the impact of such words is enhanced because I so rarely use them.

Just curious - as an ex-christian, what do you teach your kids regarding words and semantics and 'cursing' ?

[Ro-bear]

My daughters are 9 and 11 years of age. I require them to use proper language. They may speak and write informally in informal situations. I expect them to use formal language for writing assignments where such is indicated.

 

I do not allow them to curse or use vulgar language. When referring to anatomy or bodily functions, they use the proper words or widely-used euphemisms. They seem to have no desire to use such words; on those rare occasions when they utter them, it is because they are parroting a popular song or television show. They generally roll their eyes at swearing by others, and they rightly chastise me when I slip up (usually while driving).

 

I have no doubt that they will experiment with language (and other things) as they enter adolescence. In my home, I will uphold my standards. When they are adults, they will have leave to use adult language, just as I and my parents feel free to use adult language when they are not present. My mother, in particular, was relieved when the last of us children reached adulthood. She likes to curse for emphasis, but she has a keen sense of audience still.

[sheilanagig]

My daughters are 9 and 11 years of age. I require them to use proper language. They may speak and write informally in informal situations. I expect them to use formal language for writing assignments where such is indicated.

 

I do not allow them to curse or use vulgar language. When referring to anatomy or bodily functions, they use the proper words or widely-used euphemisms. They seem to have no desire to use such words; on those rare occasions when they utter them, it is because they are parroting a popular song or television show. They generally roll their eyes at swearing by others, and they rightly chastise me when I slip up (usually while driving).

 

I have no doubt that they will experiment with language (and other things) as they enter adolescence. In my home, I will uphold my standards. When they are adults, they will have leave to use adult language, just as I and my parents feel free to use adult language when they are not present. My mother, in particular, was relieved when the last of us children reached adulthood. She likes to curse for emphasis, but she has a keen sense of audience still.

 

I understand where you're coming from, seriously I do. I don't generally like swearing, it's a holdover. I think of it as polite not to. I just don't care for the origin, the prudishness that spawned swearing and then hates it in the same breath. I don't believe in teaching kids to swear either, because I don't think it's for them. It IS an adult thing.

 

Do you ever get the feeling that xianity prevents us from being adults? That we are so afraid of the things it has forbidden, like taking the lord's name in vain or sex or alcohol, we have the same attitude to all of them, very schizophrenic. You know, like "I hate it! I love it! NO! I hate it!" If we were really adults about these things and they weren't so taboo, maybe we'd learn moderation and sense when it comes to them.

[trashy]

Do you ever get the feeling that xianity prevents us from being adults? That we are so afraid of the things it has forbidden, like taking the lord's name in vain or sex or alcohol, we have the same attitude to all of them, very schizophrenic. You know, like "I hate it! I love it! NO! I hate it!" If we were really adults about these things and they weren't so taboo, maybe we'd learn moderation and sense when it comes to them.

It is universal human nature to break free of rules, especially when those rules are perceived to be arbitrary. You won't find youths rebelling against parental injunctions to avoid hot stovetops or staring at the sun or jumping in front of speeding cars on a freeway. These guidelines can easily be seen as necessary to avoid major injury and/or death. But what DO kids rebel against? Don't drink, don't smoke, don't cuss, don't have sex. And the more you attempt to prohibit these actions the more you enhance the mystery and desire of said activity. The Prohibition was living proof of this among the adult population:

 

http://info.detnews.com/history/story/inde...p;category=life

 

Ro-bear - while your standard for choosing words your children may speak is indeed a bit arbitrary, at least they hear you speak them now and then. They may see it as hypocritical, but at least they won't see the words themselves as evil. I hope you at least explain that words aren't bad, but that some people think they are.

[Ro-bear]

Ro-bear - while your standard for choosing words your children may speak is indeed a bit arbitrary, at least they hear you speak them now and then. They may see it as hypocritical, but at least they won't see the words themselves as evil. I hope you at least explain that words aren't bad, but that some people think they are.

 

Sixteen years old to drive and eighteen years old to vote are arbitrary standards too. The line has to be drawn somewhere, and I draw the line where I think the maximum benefit for my daughters lies. They may have ambitions of rising above their father's modest socio-economic level, and I don't want language to be an impediment.

 

I don't think they see me as hypocritical when a swear word slips out; I think they see me as human.

 

I do explain to them that the words are not bad in and of themselves--on that point I agree with you. My restrictions on language for my children have to do with tailoring language to the situation and audience rather than casting particular words as "evil".

[Ro-bear]

Do you ever get the feeling that xianity prevents us from being adults? That we are so afraid of the things it has forbidden, like taking the lord's name in vain or sex or alcohol, we have the same attitude to all of them, very schizophrenic. You know, like "I hate it! I love it! NO! I hate it!" If we were really adults about these things and they weren't so taboo, maybe we'd learn moderation and sense when it comes to them.

 

Yes, I get this feeling. I think my own maturity was delayed by my parents' attitudes toward certain things. At the same time, their attitudes imbued a caution that may have kept me out of trouble, with the fear they instilled substituting for the judgement I lacked. It's a trade-off, I suppose. I strive to be more forthcoming than my parents (who, I think, did a fine job, all things considered) on issues relating to adulthood with my children, so I can demystify it and allow them to take informed responsibility for decisions relating to those issues.

[trashy]

Sixteen years old to drive and eighteen years old to vote are arbitrary standards too.

I agree - in Europe most kids start drinking diluted alcoholic beverages around puberty (or possibly younger) but don't typically drive until 18 or so.

 

The line has to be drawn somewhere, and I draw the line where I think the maximum benefit for my daughters lies. They may have ambitions of rising above their father's modest socio-economic level, and I don't want language to be an impediment.

It seems that you are thinking along the lines that swear words are indicative of a lack of education or vocabulary. I disagree that this is always true.

 

I do explain to them that the words are not bad in and of themselves--on that point I agree with you. My restrictions on language for my children have to do with tailoring language to the situation and audience rather than casting particular words as "evil".

Then they should be served well. I happen to be at a place in my life where I am pushing against such boundaries but it may not benefit career and/or societal goals. But then, I enjoy hanging around bikers.

[Amethyst]

Do you ever get the feeling that xianity prevents us from being adults? That we are so afraid of the things it has forbidden, like taking the lord's name in vain or sex or alcohol, we have the same attitude to all of them, very schizophrenic. You know, like "I hate it! I love it! NO! I hate it!" If we were really adults about these things and they weren't so taboo, maybe we'd learn moderation and sense when it comes to them.

 

Yes, that's it exactly! Christianity fosters a kind of permanent intellectual childhood on people. Imagine if people still literally believed in Santa and the reindeer when they were 40. Yet most 40 year-olds still believe in Jesus and angels and demons. They're taught not to question, and even in middle age, they still don't because they're afraid to.