LosingMyReligion Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I was just thinking about the story of Zeus and Danae, daughter of Acrisius. Zeus fell in lust with Danae and transformed himself into a glittering shower of gold. In this form he impregnated Danae(it is never revealed whether or not Danae actually wanted to be pregnant. So, I presume, Zeus raped her). From this union came the God man, Perseus. Perseus would grow up and defeat the Kraken and subsequently become the most powerful guy in the universe(well Argos). So I'm wondering whether or not X-tianity borrowed the virgin birth from this one? Yaweh could have been Zeus. Danae is, of course, The virgin Mary. And Perseus is the big J himself. The Kraken could be constituted as "sin" or "Satan" and then his glorious ascension to power and glory in Greece could be compared to heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 And don't forget Oedepus Rex. He was the king's son who was abandoned as a babe, raised by a farmer, and then was restored to the throne only to sacrifice himself to save everyone else. I believe it was written about 600 BC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution_beyond Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I was just thinking about the story of Zeus and Danae, daughter of Acrisius. Zeus fell in lust with Danae and transformed himself into a glittering shower of gold. In this form he impregnated Danae(it is never revealed whether or not Danae actually wanted to be pregnant. So, I presume, Zeus raped her). From this union came the God man, Perseus. Perseus would grow up and defeat the Kraken and subsequently become the most powerful guy in the universe(well Argos). So I'm wondering whether or not X-tianity borrowed the virgin birth from this one? Yaweh could have been Zeus. Danae is, of course, The virgin Mary. And Perseus is the big J himself. The Kraken could be constituted as "sin" or "Satan" and then his glorious ascension to power and glory in Greece could be compared to heaven. That's nothing. Dionysus greek god of wine was often portrayed with a crown of ivy on his head. Attis, a god from the middle east region was killed by being hung on a tree. And Mithras, a Persian god was said to be born in a cave and visited by shepherds. Virgin births happen all over the place in pagan myths as well, where a hero or a semi-god figure is said to be born of a god and a mortal woman. Even the Buddha is portrayed as the result of a virgin birth in one story. Religious ideas often get passed around a bit - that's because they're metaphors and not to be taken literally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Religious ideas often get passed around a bit - that's because they're metaphors and not to be taken literally Yes indeed... Welcome Evolution! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piprus Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 Religious ideas often get passed around a bit - that's because they're metaphors and not to be taken literally Yes indeed... Welcome Evolution! Evolution isn't the word I would apply, but rather syncretism. Xianity was IMO a syncretic event of major proportions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Religious ideas often get passed around a bit - that's because they're metaphors and not to be taken literally Yes indeed... Welcome Evolution! Evolution isn't the word I would apply, but rather syncretism. Xianity was IMO a syncretic event of major proportions. Piprus, I think NBBTL meant that welcome for the writer of the post, Evolution_beyond. I agree that Christianity is most likely an adaptation of these other Mystery Religions to the Judaic culture, then further adapted to the rest of Greco-Roman society. It underwent more adaptations as it spread to the Germanic tribes of Europe and became the dominant religion of that continent for a thousand years. Then it crossed the Atlantic and became the dominant religion in the Americas and in many parts of the world. The question religious scholars are asking is: Why Christianity? Why, of all the Mystery Religions of the time and place, did Christianity survive and come to dominate the planet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sam Lowry Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 Hello guys, I'm very new to this site. Can you please clarify the Jesus Horus/Osiris/Dionysus parallel? It seems that after checking, the stuff posted on religoustolerance.org and other atheist websites about the insane amount of similarities are dubious. Is this really a legitimate issue as stated in "The god who wasn't there" and the "Jesus Mysteries". Or is this another Davinci Code type of thing? Thanks you! Looking forward to an honest and fair answer:) I'm still a doubter and I do not wish to bring up unverified or sensationalized issues to my religious but tolerant wife lest I will be labelled as gullible and weak. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 Sam, A lot is actually true, but I know that some things should be taken with a grain of salt. Some of the authors speculate a bit too much, but some of them have quite a solid foundation for what they say. I prefer to listen to people like Doc Robert Price, who is a Biblical scholar and atheist, and he knows a lot. Go to the Infidel Guy show podcast and download the Bible Geek episodes and you'll get high quality information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sam Lowry Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 Thank you, Han! I'm really happy to have found this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 You're welcome Sam, and it's good to have you here. We've debated many of these issues over and over again, and it seems there's an endless amount of information and ideas. One idea is that the Gospels were written by the Romans to create a unified religion. Another idea is that the Gospels are a amalgamation of many different cults. You can see concepts from the Essenes, Hellenistic, Gnostic, Pagan, Egyptian, Mithraic etc... mixed into it Maybe there were different people doing different heroic acts and the stories were gathered into one story under just one name. There are some evidence that the Gospel stories were influenced by the Illiad. Here's a thing to think about: Jesus (Yeshua) is the same name as Joshua in OT, and it means savior. Christ is the greek word for Messiah, and Messiah is used 38 times in the OT. There is a possibility there was a Joshua cult in Israel, way before 1 CE, that believed in the comming Messiah that would "Save" them from the Romans, and it got transformed into a spiritual group instead when Jerusalem was destroyed and the diasporah. (That's my favorite hypothesis.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Mythologies have borrowed themes from one another for milennia. I'm not surprised at all to find elements of one mythology popping up in another, in a different time or place, especially in the Eastern Mediterranean. Cultures around there have been exchanging stories, religions, gods, and ideas since the Bronze Age. No reason why Xianity couldn't have been party to that. In fact I get this feeling that the NT is kind of a blend of Greek philosophy and mythology with an old Semitic desert religion, with some volcano-worshipping thrown in for good measure (via the Luvites). My $0.02 on that, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Here's a thing to think about: Jesus (Yeshua) is the same name as Joshua in OT, and it means savior. Christ is the greek word for Messiah, and Messiah is used 38 times in the OT. According to my New Testament prof, Messiah and Christ both mean "the annointed one." Messiah is Hebrew and Christ is Greek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Exactly. I forgot to clarify that. It's used in OT for annointed kings and priests. So basically Jesus Christ is translated to the Annointed Savior. Would anyone name their kids such a name? To me it sounds like a label rather than a name. If there were groups that waited for the annointed savior, the return of Joshua that would save them, the cults would be there with ideas and theories already for what this savior would do when he would come. When expectations are built up like that, and you have some events, and then all of a sudden the country that is supposed to be saved is not, what an anticlimax. Now you can't be saved the way you thought anymore, so maybe gods promise wasn't to save your country, but to save your soul? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Here's a thing to think about: Jesus (Yeshua) is the same name as Joshua in OT, and it means savior. Christ is the greek word for Messiah, and Messiah is used 38 times in the OT. There is a possibility there was a Joshua cult in Israel, way before 1 CE, that believed in the comming Messiah that would "Save" them from the Romans, and it got transformed into a spiritual group instead when Jerusalem was destroyed and the diasporah. (That's my favorite hypothesis.) I've heard this one too and I do like it. I've also heard that the Samaritans thought that their messiah would descend from Joseph as well and so that's how jesus ended up with a daddy named Joseph. The myths got intermingled somewhere along the way as the authors usurped the various messiah myths. I don't know enough about the Samaritans to know how true it is but it sounds intriguing enough to look into when I get the chance some day. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 According to my New Testament prof, Messiah and Christ both mean "the annointed one." Messiah is Hebrew and Christ is Greek. And according to the Rabbi's I've spoken with online, that even though the two words mean the same thing they aren't really synonyms in that most people equate the word Messiah with the whole concept of Moshiach (sp?) which is nothing at all like christ. I guess this is why the Jews I've spoken with use neither messiah or christ since they're "loaded" words anymore and the simple meanings are now buried under a couple thousand years of theology. Hmmm...reading what I wrote makes things clear as mud. Oh well, I'm too lazy to rewrite it now. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 When they say Messiah and Christ are not synonyms I suspect it's because of how the words are used. Originally I suspect they were used the same way, in the early cult, but the more Jesus Christ became a "real" and "historical" character the less it was a label, and more it became a name for a "person". Christ in Christianity became synonymous with "a god" instead of "a normal person influenced by god". Yes, they are not synonymous today, but they must've been in the beginning. That's usually how language evolves and how words develop new meanings, they are borrowed with same or very similar meaning, and over time they change. (What you wrote was clear MWC, no worries. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewizard Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Yeah, I think it borrowed from a wide variety of sources though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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