For Thine Is The Kingdom And The....

[R. S. Martin]

Just want to share a small victory for The Cause inside a Christian institution. It turned into a good-natured power struggle. I'm talking about the seminary where I've been studying the past few years. Prof knows that I deconverted but probably not too many students know it. Actually, I don't know if the ones I told passed on the info or not. I'm trying to recall the sequence of events today.

 

We discussed Hebrews and Peter. At one point I protested that God was not living up to his own laws. I stated it pretty strongly, "A moral God cannot live above his own law." It was not a question; it was a statement.

 

Prof did not accept it. Said something like, "Sure he can. He's God!"

 

Message was clear: God can live above his own law just because. Being God apparently gives him that right.

 

Okay. Battle lost. Not at all surprising.

 

I was already composing a post for exC when I heard a young woman behind me repeating what I had said about a moral God. She was writing it down. Uh, maybe not battle lost altogether. But that's not the end of this story.

 

Prof said he really likes the following passage from 1 Peter Chapter 2. He read it out loud:

 

^

^4 Come to him, a living stone, though rejected by mortals yet chosen and precious in God's sight, and ^5 like living stones, let yourselves be built^a into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. ^6 For it stands in scripture: "See, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious; and whoever believes in him^b will not be put to shame." ^7 To you then who believe, he is precious; but for those who do not believe, "The stone that the builders rejected has become the very head of the corner," ^8 and "A stone that makes them stumble, and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.

 

^a Or you yourselves are being built

 

^b Or it

The Holy Bible : New Revised Standard Version. 1996, c1989 (1 Pe 2:4). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

 

The emphasis is my own.

 

I don't carry a Bible to school because I can't see well enough to read the tiny print. But I listen when others read. Verse 8 about "those who do not believe" caught my attention. Apparently, unbelievers are destined to stumble. They can't help it; it's just the way they are made. But the Christians were talking.

 

They had a nice discussion about the living stone and the rejected stone that became the head of the corner. Most readers have probably heard sermons on this. When I got a chance to speak I raised the issue about unbelievers being unable to avoid stumbling because they are destined to do so. In Christian thought it is assumed that God makes humans. Thus God is condemning people for being the way he made them.

 

I pointed out the injustice.

 

Again, the prof did not accept it. He said something about this being a question that theologians were asking in the Middle Ages.

 

I said, "So I guess what you are saying is that they haven't gotten it figured out yet."

 

He seemed rather puzzled as to why I would say that. I reminded him of what he had said earlier about God having the right to live above his own laws.

 

Now listen closely to this my exChristian friends: The prof RETRACTED what he had said. He confessed that he was being a bit flippant when he said it. (Somehow he never got around to explaining what answer he felt would have been more appropriate. I forget what passage it was so I can't hold him to it, unfortunately.) Quite a number of other students joined the conversation and he was obligated to explain why it sounds like 1 Peter 2:8 is condeming people for being how god made them.

 

I cannot repeat it verbatim but the ideas go something like this:

 

From the Christian perspective everything has to be attributed to God. Since some people don't believe, and everything is attributed to God, that is the way it was written.

 

He said a whole lot more but that is the gist of it as I remember it. Sounded rather lame from an exC perspective but it sounded pretty much like any sermon you hear in church. Since the school is owned and operated by Christians I did not feel I had the right to press it further. Also, I assume his explanation is correct regarding what the original writers meant. It sounds like things people say who don't think things through to the nth degree like I do.

 

All the same, it feels pretty good to know that this young lady wrote down that thing about a moral god. It also feels pretty good to know I got a professional Christian in a corner on his own turf in his own language with his own tools.

 

But there's more.

 

I know he was keenly aware that I am not a Christian. When he started that little speech he went something like this, "We are all Christians, uh, um, uhu, I think we can say we are all Christians here. And Christians attribute everything to God...."

 

I liked that. He didn't have to make that statement about the beliefs of the people in the room. He did not have to set himself up to lie.

 

Perhaps I am the only person in the room who thinks no one knows about my deconversion. Perhaps he wanted me to "come out of the closet." Whatever, he was bound by the school's policies of not publicly stating what was shared in confidence. I was not about to offer a public testimony or even confession. We assemble to learn about the New Testament, not about deconversion.

 

I wasn't sure what title to give this post and because it's about a power struggle and I feel like I won at least a small victory, I decided on this. Celebrate with me if you feel so inclined.

[Garnet]

Good for you. I think you planted a seed or two today.

[chefranden]

 

Great story. I envy the opportunity to argue with a professor.

[pitchu]

Yay, Ruby!!!

[Purple]

Woo Hoo! That sounds like it would have been very satisfying!

[mwc]

Good for you Ruby. Those phrases you quoted made (and still make) people feel good but they're silly in the "open" religion of today.

 

mwc

[R. S. Martin]

Hey thanks everybody! It WAS satisfying. That's why I had to share it. And yeah, it seemed like the ideal situation for sowing some seed. Maybe one will take root and grow???

 

I'm trying not to hope for too much. And I might never know. But cherishing the satisfaction--hey if this life is all we get we need to celebrate these little moments of joy. And we're celebrating YAAAYYYY!!!!!