☆ TexasFreethinker ☆ Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 As non-believers we like to think we have made the right and reasonal choice when it comes to religion. However, we have to face the fact that, even when presented with the evidence, people are not becoming ex-christians in droves. Even people who aren't devout believers remain christian / religious their entire lives, never to be enticed by people like us to abandon their religion. Like the jilted nice guy who was dumped for the bad boy I wonder "what is it that religion offers that we non-believers don't?" Here are some things I think religion does "better" than we do... 1. Offers a strong sense of community and belonging. 2. Offers nice answers to life's uncertainties including the big one - what happens to me when I die. 3. Provides incentive to believe - fear in the case of must fundamentalist religions. Any other ideas about why religion seems to be preferred over non-religion by the vast majority of the world's citizens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathWorship Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 As non-believers we like to think we have made the right and reasonal choice when it comes to religion. However, we have to face the fact that, even when presented with the evidence, people are not becoming ex-christians in droves. Even people who aren't devout believers remain christian / religious their entire lives, never to be enticed by people like us to abandon their religion. Like the jilted nice guy who was dumped for the bad boy I wonder "what is it that religion offers that we non-believers don't?" Here are some things I think religion does "better" than we do... 1. Offers a strong sense of community and belonging. 2. Offers nice answers to life's uncertainties including the big one - what happens to me when I die. 3. Provides incentive to believe - fear in the case of must fundamentalist religions. Any other ideas about why religion seems to be preferred over non-religion by the vast majority of the world's citizens? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> no you pretty much nailed it. the death one especially, people dont like to hear that when you die you just.. die. you cease to exist. i however DO NOT want to exist eternally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 As non-believers we like to think we have made the right and reasonal choice when it comes to religion. However, we have to face the fact that, even when presented with the evidence, people are not becoming ex-christians in droves. Even people who aren't devout believers remain christian / religious their entire lives, never to be enticed by people like us to abandon their religion. Like the jilted nice guy who was dumped for the bad boy I wonder "what is it that religion offers that we non-believers don't?" Here are some things I think religion does "better" than we do... 1. Offers a strong sense of community and belonging. 2. Offers nice answers to life's uncertainties including the big one - what happens to me when I die. 3. Provides incentive to believe - fear in the case of must fundamentalist religions. Any other ideas about why religion seems to be preferred over non-religion by the vast majority of the world's citizens? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think at the moment religion still tends to be thought of as providing the 'best' kind of ritual marking of special occasions - I know that there are some wonderful non religious naming/marriage/funeral - formats out there, but they are not so commonly known about - certainly not in the UK anyway (registry office weddings have always been seen as a bit second best slightly naff in comparison to a 'big church wedding') this has started to change now that other places can be 'registered' for weddings, so that they can now be held in castles and country houses and beautiful gardens. (this is a fairly recent thing in the UK) I think people just expect to 'turn to the church or the temple' at major points in their life, and therefore religious observance gets caught up in many of the significant markers of life even for those who are not that religious. I guess that comes under the catergory of 'community' that you've already mentioned. I wonder if this is a reason - If I think about telling someone else about my 'new found realisation' that the Bible is just a collection of stories cobbled together over the centuries and that lots of what I thought was literally true was just made up stuff .... it kinda lacks the 'wow' factor, of the tear jerking 'I want what they've got' testimony of 'how-God-reached-down-to-the-pit-of-despair-I-was-in-wrapped -me-in-His-lovin'-arms-lifted-me-saved-me-gave-me-a-new-begining-showered-me-with-love-and-blessings....' that I grew up with and WAS inspired by! Oh and I think religion is also popular because its popular Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Like the jilted nice guy who was dumped for the bad boy I wonder "what is it that religion offers that we non-believers don't?" Here are some things I think religion does "better" than we do... 1. Offers a strong sense of community and belonging. 2. Offers nice answers to life's uncertainties including the big one - what happens to me when I die. 3. Provides incentive to believe - fear in the case of must fundamentalist religions. Any other ideas about why religion seems to be preferred over non-religion by the vast majority of the world's citizens? You are absolutely right about the first one, but I must say when I found this site, there finally was a place for the feeling of community and belonging. I’m totally serious here. Over the years, I missed the social life that the church could give, but I didn’t miss the clique mentality that came with it. Here an oasis was found, and the feeling of support and belonging came back. The second statement is true too, but even there over the past year I have come to an acceptance that there might be nothing when we die, and it doesn’t bother me. There’s nothing we can do about dying, it’s inevitable. If there is something beyond death, I can only believe it will be good for everyone, without distinction between good or evil. Good and evil doesn’t exist in the beyond or doesn’t have the same meaning, so we’re ok, regardless what’s there. I’m not worried about falling asleep, so why walking the whole day worrying about being beyond consciousness tonight. I don’t get your third statement. ??? To add to it, I can only say that a majority of people do have a biological built-in need to believe in something. It’s just as impossible for them to comprehend a life without a meaning or a God, as it is to comprehend infinite time or space. Religion isn’t really the virus, our mind makes up this “virus” even if we want it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 A sense of justice. The dregs of the world don't get off scott free. But, on the other hand, Christianity kind of fucks this concept up. You can be a complete waste of oxygen, you know, maybe like the BTK dude. Then repent just before you get the gas. Heaven bound, baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 The religion also helps people to make a shortcut from the question to the explanation. The cavemen, there was a thunderstorm; they didn't understand the physics behind it, so the explanation was "the gods are angry". Same thing today, people don't understand the mechanics of evolution, or the physics behind big bang and the universe, so they say "God did it". Basically religion is just a way of suspending you inquisitive mind and put it into sleep, so it doesn't bother you as much. “Why does this happen? What is beyond this?” The easy answer God or supernatural, the hard answer, science trying to explain it and not always does or have an explanation that is so complicated that people can’t accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Absolutely agree. Religion helped early peoples to make sense of their world. Sun, moon, stars, all of it. p.s. you don't suppose that Mt. Sinai was a volcano, do you? hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Absolutely agree. Religion helped early peoples to make sense of their world. Sun, moon, stars, all of it. p.s. you don't suppose that Mt. Sinai was a volcano, do you? hmm. Huh? Oh I see, the smoke and thunder and all... yeah... maybe that could explain it … or maybe Bossy Moses had to much chili for lunch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Broke Free Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Religion is popular because it allows the believer to believe whatever they want, without the nasty complications of introspection. I haven’t met a Christian yet whose “personal” God does share the same beliefs they do. I have to live with possibility that I could be wrong about some of me beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ TexasFreethinker ☆ Posted June 11, 2005 Author Share Posted June 11, 2005 I don’t get your third statement. ??? I think it's a matter of creating a fake "need" and then offering to meet that need. Many religions create fear - of eternal punishment, for example - and then offer the way out. Religions are popular because they've been able to sufficiently convince people that they will be punished on earth and/or in the afterlife if they don't follow that religion's rules. It's marketing to the extreme. Create the need and the means to fulfill it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ TexasFreethinker ☆ Posted June 11, 2005 Author Share Posted June 11, 2005 I haven’t met a Christian yet whose “personal” God does share the same beliefs they do. Yes, god is very flexible that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 I think it's a matter of creating a fake "need" and then offering to meet that need. Many religions create fear - of eternal punishment, for example - and then offer the way out. Religions are popular because they've been able to sufficiently convince people that they will be punished on earth and/or in the afterlife if they don't follow that religion's rules. It's marketing to the extreme. Create the need and the means to fulfill it. Ok, I got it. Create the product and then create the market for it. It's very true. "You have to receive the atonement for your sins!" What the heck is sin, really? Is murder sin? The answer is Yes and No. Even to Christians! Especially today, killing people is accepted, if the victims are in another country, defending what they believe in, but we don't like them or we are scared they will do something with their sticks and stones. It used to be that Christians believed in peace, 100 years ago or so, but not today. Politics is the same way, isn't it? "Oh, the people over there, they are so dangerous, but we're not dangerous, because we're good, so let's kill them!" Politicians use rhetorics and propaganda to create the market for their agenda, to get the buy-in from the people, and the people trust their government and believe what they're doing is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necrosmith Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 IMO, basically, religion is the brain's subliminal defense mechanism against death. The survival instinct is so strong in us, that the brain just can't deal with the idea that it will some day die and there's absolutely nothing it can do about it. The reason we have to have this defense mechanism is because we are self-aware. If we weren't, if we didn't know that one day we would die, religion wouldn't exist. That's my opinion. Religion is the brain's coping mechanism against death. All other perceived benefits are incidentals to this prime benefit. (At least for the weaker mind that can't come to grips with death). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eponymic Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Another thing that religion offers is a false sense of hope and security. By offering an easy out from your 'sins' or mistakes, you can easily exonerate yourself for any screw up you get yourself involved in, rather than doing the right thing which is owning up to your mistakes, taking responsibility for them & doing something to learn from, eliminate, & remedy your mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest marktaylor Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 As non-believers we like to think we have made the right and reasonal choice when it comes to religion. However, we have to face the fact that, even when presented with the evidence, people are not becoming ex-christians in droves. Even people who aren't devout believers remain christian / religious their entire lives, never to be enticed by people like us to abandon their religion. Like the jilted nice guy who was dumped for the bad boy I wonder "what is it that religion offers that we non-believers don't?" Here are some things I think religion does "better" than we do... 1. Offers a strong sense of community and belonging. 2. Offers nice answers to life's uncertainties including the big one - what happens to me when I die. 3. Provides incentive to believe - fear in the case of must fundamentalist religions. Any other ideas about why religion seems to be preferred over non-religion by the vast majority of the world's citizens? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree with 1. We as non-theists have 'left the herd' so to speak, and have a tendency to question the applicability of the old survival tools (religion,patriotism) in society. And we don't have anything close to the practical infrastructure (and getting stronger) the fundies depend on. You've pretty much covered it. 1) A need to feel important. 2.,3.) The willingness to accept the outrageous in order to belong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 1. Offers a strong sense of community and belonging.2. Offers nice answers to life's uncertainties including the big one - what happens to me when I die. 3. Provides incentive to believe - fear in the case of must fundamentalist religions. This sums it up well. Those who have a strong need for religion also usually have a strong need to belong to a group and to fit in. While I may want to fit in, I don't have that strong of a need to be in a large group, hence people are inherently suspicious of me (at least, it seems that way). Introverts, especially those who tend to be skeptical and question authority, are not well-liked in America. Another thing that religion offers is a false sense of hope and security. Agreed. Religion is a huge security blanket. It provides people with something to hold on and snuggle when they become afraid of life's uncertainties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 A sense of justice. The dregs of the world don't get off scott free. But, on the other hand, Christianity kind of fucks this concept up. You can be a complete waste of oxygen, you know, maybe like the BTK dude. Then repent just before you get the gas. Heaven bound, baby. I know what you mean about the way it fucks up justice. Still, I agree. I'd add this as #4 How about #5: religion expresses people's sense of awe before the transcendent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 A sense of justice. The dregs of the world don't get off scott free. I don't think it's justice. It's more like revenge -- it's like saying "everyone we don't like will be tortured for all of eternity, regardless of how they lived their lives." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewizard Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 I don't think it's justice. It's more like revenge -- it's like saying "everyone we don't like will be tortured for all of eternity, regardless of how they lived their lives." <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have found a religion for me as an atheist, a Satanist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 I have found a religion for me as an atheist, a Satanist. Of course, you do realize that believing in Satan wouldn't make you an athiest anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Of course, you do realize that believing in Satan wouldn't make you an athiest anymore. I don't think Satanism, really is a belief in Satan as a god, an entity or a being. My understanding is that Satanism beholds Satan as the concept of the free will we have in us, and that we have the freedom to chose our path. Egotism is a strong part of Satanism. The reason why it's called Satanism is that it borrows the idea from the Bible, how Satan was strong enough to reject God and do what he wanted. God demanded obedience from angels and humans, but Satan could chose his own way. It was not about rebellion, but about freedom of choice, and being able to exercise the free will. Satan is just the symbol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Satan is just the symbol. If you say so. *Shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 My son just borrowed the Satanic bible, when he's done reading it, I will read it, and let you know what I find.. ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 My son just borrowed the Satanic bible, when he's done reading it, I will read it, and let you know what I find.. ok? Sure. Although IMHO, if you're going to believe in Satan as a symbol, why only him and not Pagan deities as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Sure. Although IMHO, if you're going to believe in Satan as a symbol, why only him and not Pagan deities as well? I'm not planning to become a Satanist, don't worry! All religions are accepted IMO, as long as they don't proselytize and demand political changes based on their religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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