Dave Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 By boat or by airplane!By the way, this counts for a most western european countries nowadays. I'd swim if I have to. I just want to get out of this country before things get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sage Nabooru Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 I think sometimes, but not always, "coming out" as anything is made up to be a bigger deal to the person doing it than to the witnesses present. Some people might think that being an atheist is a dirty thing in today's society, so they start thinking that they can never let it be known in company that they are one, and then blame others for keeping them "in the closet", so to speak. I think in today's society, coming out as a homosexual is a bigger deal than coming out as an atheist, definitely. In fact I find most people really don't care about your personal beliefs, and if they do, they consider "atheism" just a phase you're going through and that you'll drop out of eventually. Is it correct to think so? Maybe not, but at least they'll leave you alone for the most part. The way I look at it is, I've come out as an ex-Christian before, in an extremely Christian surrounding. I figure if people have a problem with it, which they have had at certain points, then boo-hoo to them for having such a problem. In a perfect world, IMO, people would never have to "come out" as anything because those kinds of things simply wouldn't matter unless it was asked. If someone asks me or the topic comes up, I tell. Otherwise I would like it simply to not be an issue; because in my perfect world it wouldn't matter what I did or did not believe in, or what sex I slept with. What would matter would be my behavior and lovingness as a person. The way things are now, the group at large requires such details in order to make prejudiced judgements regardless of whether or not they knew the person prior to the information being revealed, and the person making such a revelation feels it is neccessary to gain the recognition of others in their statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution_beyond Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 One thing I will say is that you don't get thugs beating up a man just because he is an atheist - at least not in the western parts of the world. Some homophobic thugs will indeed indulge in a bit of 'gay bashing' But I have been struck by the parallels between sexuality and convictions such as being a theist or an atheist. I think that sexuality is quite a fluid thing that can change during the course of a person's life, and it is also something that forms or develops during childhood, rather than something you are born with (this is what I observe and believe with regards to sexuality - I know that many will disagree with me) By comparing with religious conviction (or lack of it) I can see how these are both examples where something can be fluid and subject to change, not at all something you are born as, and yet still not be a matter of choice, possibly because they involve deep aspects of identity based on subconscious influences rather than conscious choices. You can't choose what you do or do not believe (what makes sense to you) - and you can't choose what stimulates your sexual desires. But that doesn't have to mean that these things are fixed and unchanging either. Interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 "One thing I will say is that you don't get thugs beating up a man just because he is an atheist " I think you'll find that isn't true. You can get a kicking cos someone doesn't like your face. However, if you're a godless freak it's more of an excuse. It's not common, but it does happen in the Third World parts of the US...(South of the Mason Dixon line, west of the Pecos, or one of the big square states...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bruce_p Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 I don't have the link, but I heard of some atheists getting beaten in Toronto of all places....and this was recent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lindaz6782 Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 I am not a homosexual so I can't really compare how coming out as an atheist and coming out as gay feels but I do know that the atheist bit has been hard for me. I live in Kentucky but more to the point than location is the community of people I have surrounded myself with. Seven years of being a christian led me to wrongly isolate myself within christian community.... coming out meant that almost everyone I know dropped me like a bad habit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosingMyReligion Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 As a gay person I was brought up with a sense of inferiority which was instilled by Christianity, so "coming out" was never an option for me. Once I left Christianity I just sort of ended up an atheist by default. I don't feel inferior as an atheist, in fact if anything I feel like i've evolved. I have no problem disclosing my atheism to anyone. Totally relate to this. When I accepted my sexuality(gay) I pretty much threw religion out the window and into the gutter to be run over by cars(I'm atheist...but have a real spiritual bent). It was just a natural progression for me. Which is why I don't understand some of my gay friends who still read the Bible(a whitewashed version of it)and attend mass. Yeah, you can goto a gay affirmative church, but for me it is all or nothing. Either it's real or it isn't. Either it's affirmative or it isn't. I could careless now. But I'll never tell my mom I'm an atheist. She would worry herself to death about my soul. She is just now getting over the whole gay thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sage Nabooru Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 Oh yeah........my dad is atheist, but he's one of the most homophobic people I know. Hell, he's just one of the most hateful people I know. Female, black, hispanic, asian, gay, pacifist, Jewish, Muslim, Catholic, Mexican, British, French, whatever......he'll find a reason to hate you. His overwhelming ignorance isn't based on religion, though; he just finds his own ways of working around it. As for his homophobia, it's not about God's declaration of homosexuality as an abomination, it's about "Well it's just not natural! Hell, anybody can see you're supposed to shit through that hole and nothing else, it's not supposed to have anything put into it! That's weird and perverted and it's just not right!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 Oh yeah........my dad is atheist, but he's one of the most homophobic people I know. Hell, he's just one of the most hateful people I know. Female, black, hispanic, asian, gay, pacifist, Jewish, Muslim, Catholic, Mexican, British, French, whatever......he'll find a reason to hate you. His overwhelming ignorance isn't based on religion, though; he just finds his own ways of working around it. As for his homophobia, it's not about God's declaration of homosexuality as an abomination, it's about "Well it's just not natural! Hell, anybody can see you're supposed to shit through that hole and nothing else, it's not supposed to have anything put into it! That's weird and perverted and it's just not right!" That is a skill... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosingMyReligion Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 His overwhelming ignorance isn't based on religion, though; he just finds his own ways of working around it. As for his homophobia, it's not about God's declaration of homosexuality as an abomination, it's about "Well it's just not natural! Hell, anybody can see you're supposed to shit through that hole and nothing else, it's not supposed to have anything put into it! That's weird and perverted and it's just not right!" It just astounds me at how patently stupid and retarded some people are when it comes to gay men's sexuality. Like the whole sum of being gay is anal sex. And it is all the more laughable being that many gay men DO NOT have anal intercourse. Anyway, blood and human beings come out of vaginas. That isn't stopping straight guys from doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 His overwhelming ignorance isn't based on religion, though; he just finds his own ways of working around it. As for his homophobia, it's not about God's declaration of homosexuality as an abomination, it's about "Well it's just not natural! Hell, anybody can see you're supposed to shit through that hole and nothing else, it's not supposed to have anything put into it! That's weird and perverted and it's just not right!" It just astounds me at how patently stupid and retarded some people are when it comes to gay men's sexuality. Like the whole sum of being gay is anal sex. And it is all the more laughable being that many gay men DO NOT have anal intercourse. Anyway, blood and human beings come out of vaginas. That isn't stopping straight guys from doing that. Strange to say, I've known a good few chaps who couldn't make love to their wife having 'shared the birthing experience'... the common thing was the episiostomy... Moral: if you can't deal with the grisly details, stay the hell away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sage Nabooru Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 It just astounds me at how patently stupid and retarded some people are when it comes to gay men's sexuality. Like the whole sum of being gay is anal sex. And it is all the more laughable being that many gay men DO NOT have anal intercourse. Mere details like this do not matter. The fact is, somebody is different, and he feels the need to humiliate them. It isn't uniquely a religious or even philosophical phenomenon; some people just hate just because they want to. The facts are irrelevant to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Broke Free Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Totally relate to this. When I accepted my sexuality(gay) I pretty much threw religion out the window and into the gutter to be run over by cars(I'm atheist...but have a real spiritual bent). It was just a natural progression for me. Which is why I don't understand some of my gay friends who still read the Bible(a whitewashed version of it)and attend mass. Yeah, you can goto a gay affirmative church, but for me it is all or nothing. Either it's real or it isn't. Either it's affirmative or it isn't. I could careless now. I could have written every word you just did. I had the exact same experience and feel the same way about my gay-christian friends. IBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Broke Free Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 It just astounds me at how patently stupid and retarded some people are when it comes to gay men's sexuality. Like the whole sum of being gay is anal sex. And it is all the more laughable being that many gay men DO NOT have anal intercourse. I can count the number of times I have had anal sex on one hand and the number of times I enjoyed it on one finger. I belong to a gay men's group in New Hampshire and we had an informal survey of about 40 men and asked if the had anal sex within the past year. Only about 1/3 of the men raised their hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOkkata Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Geography makes a difference. In the southern USA it would not be healthy to come out of either closet. I haven't been in that area of the USA since the early 1970's and it was bad then. I hear it's gotten worse. I live in the Southern USA. I've got no problem disclosing my Athism to anyone, and I'm quite open about the subject to anyone who approaches me. I've had quite a few people try to save me, and I'm quite firm and adamant about my beliefs with them. I've yet to feel threatened, or in danger because of it. Atheism is tollerated much more than Homosexuality. The south is particularly bad with the gay movement. Though, places like Daytona, Pensacola, and Panama City are surprisingly enlightened. Florida is a great state, but places like Alabama, Georgia, and Mississippi can be dangerous for an open Homosexual. [New Orleans was a free thinking city, but now it's dangerous for anyone.] I don't feel that the two are comparable in that way really. Atheism is pretty safe in comparison. College towns, such as Gainsville, Tallahassee, and Miami are also pretty tollerant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 I'm told Austin is too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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